moonshine mix

[FrankRizzo]

Question- I went out to gather all of the things to make this stuff and I saw that Black Gold also makes a "coco blend" potting soil. Could this be used so that one doesn't have to add the brick of coco? Or would that be a bad move?

FRizzo

 

[pizzadude]

meduzer,

I prefer the original mix that moonshine man reverts back to...

Orig Moonshine:

1 bag each of ocean forest, light warrior, planting mix and 2.5 gallons of perlite with 1 cup of POM fruit and flower for blooming plants

ditto!

 

[Guest]

moonshine mix with flood tables? anyone?

 

[JollyGreen]

I thought moonshine man said 5-6 gallons of perilte with the additional 1 cup of POM stater.

 

[JollyGreen]

What is everyone using to ph balance the Great MSM or do you ph balance at all? Post your thoughts

 

[mysta177]

here is the orignal rec off of hightimes and pg 1 just thought Id put it back up for some read. The only other change I do from here on out is add the POM starter mix and some lime. Oh and around day 35ish I might top feed some fruit&flower. K+ to all you!

here is the recipe I saved off OG

**This is the recipe for the soil mixture I have been using for quite a few years now..."Moonshine's Mix" requires only plain waterings throughout the life of the plant with only three transplants... I have made one or two changes to the mix over the last year and now its quite idiotproof......and by the end of flowering you will share the same feelings I do.." Foxfarm rules".....My main issues with most liquid fertlizer diets is the large swing in Ph that can occur or as with most growers , adding the wrong fertlizer or too much can ruin you crop or really mess up the flavor. For ME flavor is what organic herb is all about....
You will have to buy these supplies from a Hydro/grow store or a professional garden supply company/ nursery....Foxfarm is located in Arcata, California which is in Humblolt county. So if any company is better placed to meet the needs of growers it would be them...I'll list the products to buy; then the actual base ingredients of the entire mix....when I but a single batch of soil its about 65 dollars total but costs will vary depending on store....
1 bag of Foxfarm Ocean Forest potting soil (teal colored bag) ...cost 17-25$...1.5 cu/ft
1 bag of Foxfarm Batguano/earthwormcastings planting mix (red bag) cost 15-20$.....1. cu /ft
1 bag of Light Warrior High Yeild ultra premium blend (dark blue bag) cost 15-20$......1. cu/ft
8-10 qt's of Perilite... I prefer the foxfarm "chunky" perilite but it can be expensive...When using the FF chunky it comes in a large bag I use half the bag in this mix...its easier than measuring out qt's...(roughly 8$ worth of perilite)
1 cup of Fox farm "Peace of Mind" fruit and flower fertlizer 5-8-4....$7 for a box which has about 15 cups ...
I use a small 2.49$ blue kiddie swimming pool from Mal-wart () and a regular shovel (bad back) to mix it all together....I keep a 40 gal tub of the stuff mixed up ready to go at all times...the mixture is somewhere in the 43-45 gallons of soil total...which will fill nine or ten 4 gallon buckets or seven or eight 5 gallon buckets....so it is quite a bit of substrate....I have also tried this mix in a "Soma" style dirt bed but honestly it works best in regular buckets....
the reason you dont need any additional ferts is simple...you just created one of THE richest soils available anywhere.....the three different bags of planting mixtures that were used were created to be used indepentently with the liquid ferts...but combining all three creates a sort of super soil.....
Ingredients in the soils are: Composted Forest Humus x2, Sphagnum peat moss x3, Earthworm castings x3, PacificNorthwest seagoin fish ,crab meal, shrimp meal, vermicultural compost (bedding material and livestock manure) x2 , Sandy loam x2, perilite x2, fossilized bat guano x2, granite dustx3, Norwegian Kelp meal x2, dolomite lime and oyster shell for Ph x3 and Humic acid from leonardite and Mycorrhizal innoculents.....then the additional cup of "peace of mind" adds feather meal, hydrolyzed fish, fish bone meal, sulfate of potash, magnesia, alfalfa meal, blood meal, bat guano, rock phosphate, kelp meal. and gypsum....plus 12 species of Mycorrhizae and 6 species of benificial bacteria.....
Water Ph should be started at 6.7 and dropped to 6.5 by the end of flowering.... wet/dry cycles are vital to the success with this soil mixture ; if kept too wet the plants will be stunted so allow at least 4-7 days between waterings...Bucket size and plant size will determine how many days between waterings...personaly I let my plants droop(not wilt) slightly with the buckets being very light...
To make sure you have non-stop growth and foilage development transplants are key....I have a simple schedule I go by.....I take my rooted clones and plant them in 1/2 gallon containers which they remain for 2 weeks......then they are transplanted into 2 gallon containers for an additional 2-3 weeks...at this time they are ready to flower and I can eiter choose to transplant into a 4 or 5 gallon container depending on the strains food or root growth needs....or if its a 90+ sativa strain I may even plant into a 10 gallon garbage can that has been drilled full of holes....
Simple...kinda of expensive but Worth every penny....I'v eused a dozen other soils and mixes of my own but this 3 bag mix is amazing....The guys at my local grow shop are now recommending it to everyone and they say the response has been overwhelming...they were reordering dirt weekly to meet the demand to the point the store opened a warehose in the back of the store so they could carry palates of foxfarm dirt .....**

 

[FrankRizzo]

A few questions for the experts

-So about one cup lime per bag? So 3 total for the whole mix? I'm I getting this right?

-Are your supposed to mix this all together and let it cook for a while?

-I have everything, minus the the lime and this is going to make waayyyyy more than I need. So can I keep this stuff in a big tub and use it over the fall/winter or am I going to have a really nice soil that is going to waste?

FRizzo

 

[mysta177]

This is what I do

You're going to need powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tbs./gal. or 1 cup/cubic foot of ANY mix to supply magnesium and calcium even if you don't need the pH adjusting ability of dolomite. Anyone who thinks Pro Mix or FFOF has enough lime in it for their grow is kidding themselves.
Burn1

 

[Guest]

This is what I do

Mysta,

Have u noticed a difference since adding dolomite lime?

 

[BBWluva]

i used lime once and really didn't notice any difference.i was told the dry ferts do have buffers in them,plus if your adjusting your waters ph you should be fine.i don't think the lime really helps or hurts this mix,just my opinion though.......

 

[mysta177]

yes i have noticed a lil diff in the mix BUT no signifant tell tell sign. I use it cuz it didnt hurt the test run at all and most peeps have it as a real good buffer....I just cant see how you can go wrong..but JMO

 

[mstoner]

hello

I'm planning on starting some msm, however my shop did not have planting mix. The guy sold me a bag of earthworm castings instead. I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on this? Should I ammend the mix with something else now (bat guano for instance?)

thanks!

 

[judas cohen]

Maybe I'm Wrong.....

Maybe I'm Wrong.....

If you do the math, MSM probably means 8-10 GALLONS of perlite; not quarts.

1) He talks about using "about half of a big bag of big & chunky perlite." The big bags are 4 cubic feet (4 x 7 1/2 gal/cubic ft= 30 gal) and list price most places was about $16 if purchased in store. He mentions "about $8 worth."

2) He mentions his recipe makes "about 43-45 gal of soil mix." 1.5 cu ft OF + 1 cu ft LW + 1 cu ft PM= 3.5 cu ft or 26 gal. Add 1/2 bag (2 cu ft or 15 gal) perlite= about 41 gal total mix. That much perlite creates air space and "fluffs" the mix, so 43-45 gal is the result.

10 gal of perlite added to the 3 bag mix=28% perlite.
12 gal of perlite=31%
15 gal of perlite=36%.

I've noticed that many experienced growers use 30%-40% perlite added, when using OF soil. They feel that much is required to optimize the soil consistency for raisin' reefer.

If you decide to use that much perlite (and have been using significantly less), then expect your watering schedule to change. Also, the nute concentration will be somewhat diluted; so container size will become more important if using water only.

I'm not suggesting adding more nutes, just sayin' MSM's water/container size/PH directions should be adhered to. (When all else fails, try following directions!) LOL

For first time use, MSM mix does NOT require dolomite, if you use FF POM 5-8-4 and/or 3-4-3. The FF soils and dry nutes are designed to work together. READ THE LABELS. The POM contains sul-po-mag, gypsum, 2 kinds of bone meal for Ca & Mg. Additional Ca and PH up in the oyster shell in the soil mix.

The soil/nutes are PH compatible and PH MJ friendly, if 6.2-6.5 water is used. Don't expect oyster shell (or dolomite) to bring untreated 8.3 tapwater down to a lower PH. That aint gonna' happen,IMO.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mixing Your Own Soil Vs Using FF Based Custom Mix:

Dolomite is good stuff; BUT Ocean Forest/Happy Frog/Light Warrior/Planter Mix is NOT pro-mix. If you mix your own soil using peat,or recycle soil containing peat (including FoxFarm), or mix your own dry organic nutes without K-Mag or Epsom salt, or bone meal or oyster shell; if you use EJ, fish emulsion, or low PH nutes; if you PH down your tapwater: dolomite is wonderful stuff!

If using commercial soils containing coco, oyster shell (or lime), watering with untreated tap water; you best read the labels and start low/go slow with "add 2 TBL dolomite/gal soil mix and throw away your Ph meter." IMO. Especially with seedlings and fresh clones.

If your mix contains significant amounts of coco/perlite/vermiculate, EWC, or thoroughly aged compost (which are all PH friendly), 1 TBL/gal (or a little less) might be better. The more you add fillers, the smaller the percentage of peat moss, and the less PH buffer (dolomite lime) is needed, IME.

(Watering with very low PH ferts requires more dolomite in your soil mix.) It's all about balance. If you stick with MSM and his simple water/up potting directions, a new grower is almost guaranteed an excellent first grow. (I got a lot of flat tires when I tried re-inventing the wheel...LOL)

If Planters Mix is not available, 1 cu ft of Black Gold Potting Soil, or Cocoblend, or Garden Compost is decent substitute. ( but lacks the kelp meal/bat guano and sometimes EWC, depending on which Black Gold you use. It contains lime instead of oyster shell.)

Kellogs Patio Plus Outdoor Potting Soil is also similar with EWC, guano, kelp, and composted chicken manure. No dolomite or oyster shell.
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Marijuana Half Truths: (IMO)

1) "It's impossible to burn plants if you're 100% organic!"

2) "ALWAYS add 2 TBL/gal dolomite to ANYTHING/EVERTHING and forget PH!"

3) " You can grow in 100% EWC!" (It turns to dried mud without some perlite or coir or peat or vermiculite to lighten up the mix.) 10% to 20% is most cost effective, unless you have your own worm farm; IMO. Should be a part of any organic soil mix. Great addition for recycling MSM.

4) "Maxicrop kelp is good in larger than mfg recommended amounts." (Be especially careful using the soluble powdered concentrate on youngsters and in late flower. 1/4 tsp powder concentrate per gal of water is equal to 1 TBL/gal of water using Maxicrop liquid, as per mfg's directions.)

I'm not trolling and I believe there are many different "best" ways to grow: depending on goals, available materials, personal preferences. I've seen some things that seem strange to me, with pictures of decent to great buds "proving" it works. (Can't help but wonder what result would be if more moderate method was used. Pictures don't include side by side comparisons.)

I'm long-winded and off topic, but there's a lot of things from other threads being added to MSM mix. Some good, some not so good....For sure, it's not MSM if everything is changed around.

To me, MSM Mix is like Peaches n' Cream! You can add milk, sugar, honey, cinnamin, raisins, almonds, vanilla, strawberries, chocolate, mustard, catsup, peanut butter, etc, etc, etc,.....and come up with something you consider better (and to some folks maybe it is better!) But it sure aint Peaches n' Cream. LOL

It don't taste the same and it aint as simple. Tasty and simple is all MSM claimed when he first published his mix.

I'm NOT an expert and I may be wrong.....

Grow Safely/Be Happy

 

[FrankRizzo]

I think I'll stay away from the lime first time around. That way I can get a baseline and gain some knowledge before I start messing around. Thanks Judas

FRizzo

 

[judas cohen]

Meduzer: Just saw your post on the previous page. Yikes!!! I hope it was a typo error. Use one CUP (8 oz) of the POM 5-8-4 for the 3 bag mix.

To whom it may concern: MSM has played a lot with tweakin' his mix. He's added a coco brick, substituted a bag of Black Gold Potting Soil for the LW, added a cup of POM 3-4-3 for veg, used Bio-fish tea in early flower, and High P tea in mid flower, etc. Some changes helped the yield, but it kept getting more complicated and further away from the original idea.

You can play with the mix and still get great results, as many peeps have found out. If you have a lot of experience, you can build a custom mix from scratch (without FoxFarm Soils & ferts) that MIGHT out perform it. and probably will if you water with teas and hover over your plants like a "Nervesous Nellie" LOL (Check out 3LB or Flintstoners threads, fer instance. They are fantastic growers.)

Just keep in mind that MSM says he has tried many approaches over the years and keeps coming back to it. If there is a simple, tasty, idiot-proof, one size fits all mix, that just needs water: MoonShineMan Mix is it!

Growing is fun! Don't turn it into work. Don't count the grains of perlite and worry 'cause you're a tablespoon short. But you will probably come out way ahead if you faithfully follow directions the first time. Check out Mysta's posts & pictures. He's the Poster Child for MSM Mix.

Life Is Simple! and so is growing, if you MSM it. LOL

(You don't have to believe me; just Understand The Words......)

 

[Guest]

thanks for the reply

BUT WHAT ABOUT FLOOD TABLES and MSM??


was this wrong?

$18.95 (1 bag) FoxFarm Ocean Forest® Potting Soil
$18.95 (1 bag) FoxFarm Original Planting Mix
$18.95 (1 bag) FoxFarm Light Warrior® Agro-Ponic® Grow Medium
$10.00 (1 bag) FoxFarm Peace of Mind® Fruit & Flower Organic Fertilizer (5-8-4)
$15.00 (4 gal) FoxFarm Big & Chunky Perlite
$10.00(3 TSB. per. 2 gal) Budswel Organic Fertilizer in the middle of 12/12

 

[GrassRoots]

UPDATE:....

So after a good year+ of testing other crap besides the MM mix....I have a few bits of advice........
IMO the original mix is probbably the best all around soil mix for anyone interested in growing...
I am now using the original mix from Seedlings/clones all the way through flower and I had to slap myself for even trying other stuff over the last year.....
(Edit)
The mix ....1bag each...Ocean Forest
Planting Mix(BAtguano-earthwormcastings)
Light Warrior
5 -6 gallons Chunky Perilite
1 Cup Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower (yellow box)
*1 cup Peace of Mind Starter Mix (light blue box)

Plain water from 6.7-6.3.......this time of year (winter) you can expect 5-10 day gaps between watering times in 4-5 gallon buckets if the plants are 35-48 inches tall....in veg expect 4-7 day watering gaps.....depending on container size....Summer cut thoses #'s in half.....

Moonshine * only addition to original mix.....

First I just wanted to say thanks to Moonshineman for giving his recipe and also keeping us updated on it. I read through many (but not all) pages of this thread and I remember at some point someone being concerned about the nutes contained in the soil being too much for tender seedlings. I just want to make sure it's ok to create the above mix (including fruit and flower right from the get go) and drop a bean right in there to start. If you guys tell me it's good to go, I'm dropping some beans in the mix tomorrow and starting my first grow! I've got Mandala's Mandala #1, Hashberry and White Satin as well as Sam the Skunkman's Durbin Poison x Skunk #1. They'll be bathed in 1200watts of aircooled HPS light. Unfortunately my local hydo shop had everything in the above recipe except peace of mind starter mix but since that wasn't part of the original recipe I figured I'd get by. Please tell me to drop those beans!!!

GrassRoots

PS I will have a thread for my grow and I'll be sure to post my final results on this thread as well.

 

[Guest]

GrassRoots: i use FFOF now and its real "hot" so Ive lost some seedlings in it...most of the time its all good....I grow from clones and clones never seem to mind it...but they have a established root system...AS seedlings dont..thanks

oh the light warrior is perfect for starting seedlings..

 

[GrassRoots]

So I should go grab another bag of light warrior and use that for seedlings? Or do you think the blend of all three plus perlite weakens (cools?) it enough that it's ok to use? I'm going to start these in 12 or 16oz red plastic (beer) cups, if you tell me to just use light warrior do you think they'll be able to handle the additional nutes by the time I do my first transplant (probably a couple weeks)? Any one else who has used this mix for seedlings or has any recommendations?

GrassRoots

 

[Guest]

FFOF w/ perlite shold be ok