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Living organic soil from start through recycling

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Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Veteran
Not all clays are the same,but you can indeed incorporate local clay from deposits in your area.....I do this when I see some good stuff out bouncing around here and there. Mostly old riverbeds in older valleys.
 

unclefishstick

Fancy Janitor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Unklefish; The whole scenario really kicks in when people who are growing organically realize that their soil is as alive as the plants or more so...then there is no need to truck in heavy bags of anything. If you want the bottled botanicals, instead you can pull up dandelions, yarrow, nettles, mullien, borage, burdock, houndstoungue, mustard, wormwood, buttercups, mallow, horsetail fern, comfrey....whatever grows along the boulevard & train tracks...mix it up with water and there you go. You can also make amazing quantitities of vermicompost under the kitchen sink. You don't need to send away for Azomite or Gaia glacier powder...get some river/creek sand/gravel or/and buy some driller's mud. Once these thought processes and actions kick in, it is super cheap to grow beautifully....just keep your soil alive.

The consumer problems begin when one does not give their soil a chance to come to life.

Also what Gas & Coot said
only a few of those things really grow around here,we only get about 9 inches of rain a year,so i think i would need to find alternatives from the local area.this is a big farming area,they grow lots of cotton,onion,chilis and a few other things,plus some massive pecan groves.that was kinda of why i was thinking it would simplify matters to wait until i had a functional outdoor garden space to help generate useful quantities of compostable materials and be able to grow many of those things myself.the weather here permits near year round cropping with a simple cold frame set up. so to me it makes more sense to wait until i have the time and energy to devote doing things right rather than adopt these strategies piecemeal..
 

unclefishstick

Fancy Janitor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
How did you get your soil home? When I began growing organic, I made one trip for some stuff in 5 years.
the boss gives me a ride when i need to get that stuff home or i just suck it up and haul it on my back,mostly i prefer to do i myself,i was the one who gave up having a car so its no one elses responsibility to haul me around.shoot,i hauled 10 gallons of RO water home every day for 4 months while the garden was getting going,i figure i moved a few tons of water on my bike over that time...
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
If there is any truth to this BS it is this chain of events on the reverse.

Taking shitty,unhealthy,and less vigorous cuts off moms,off moms and so on..ultimately ending up with a shitty ass cut that still has the capability to pull out of that retarded growth if you give it the right attention and start taking better cuts.....maybe???

Applying real world botany as Coot mentioned there is evidence of epigenetic damage being passed on through clones. Of course, as noted the damage has to occur in the first place.

It is indeed interesting if/that rehabilitation can occur as a reverse process. I believe that I observed inherited damage in my clones of clones and I never did manage to rehabilitate and my seeds vanished = SOL. My mothers went through hell as I moved from one place to another, once storing them in a freezing attic under fluorescents for three months...damaged indeed.

There are a couple of interesting discussions in the Cannabis Botany and Advanced Science forum. I did post some links and citations over there

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=197586
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=218919
 

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Veteran
Hey man...you can keep the bike....just hit the upgrade button.

This could be you.....fuck yeah..

picture.php


..and here's your trailer for hauling peat and pumice....

picture.php
 

unclefishstick

Fancy Janitor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
You only need a few...those were only samples.
im still trying to grasp the basics of all this and find the people here locally who can fill me in on what the local equivalents might be

Hey man...you can keep the bike....just hit the upgrade button.

This could be you.....fuck yeah..

View Image

..and here's your trailer for hauling peat and pumice....

View Image

i like this better...
http://www.bikeshophub.com/wp-content/uploads/bike-rider-with-bob-trailer.JPG
 

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Veteran
Applying real world botany as Coot mentioned there is evidence of epigenetic damage being passed on through clones. Of course, as noted the damage has to occur in the first place.
...but what of the observations we as cannabis growers who run cycle after cycle,cloning continually,for years make. No,we can't argue with evidence,but the BO cut for example,I have had cuts on the brink of death in locations where I wasn't attending them..loaded with mites and mold...certainly nothing healthy at all about them..and have taken cuts off those sickly BO (just in case)...and have had those cuts completely bounce back once in my care.
I'm using BO as an example because of it's age as a cut...and if Coot's anything like me he's certainly let things get relaxed over the years at one point or another when real life knocks maybe,....meaning that BO has possibly gone through some of these 'damages' to the genetic information in it's past as well as when in my possession...and if evidence says so,why does she still respond beautifully to positive environmental conditions???? I do not know....I'm just a dude who grows cannabis...other than that is those years of simple observation.
 

gregor_mendel

Active member
i was the one who gave up having a car so its no one else's responsibility to haul me around

I respect that attitude. It seems most of the car-less persons I have known are actually cheap moochers who always ride on others' time and money.

I dig the bike trailer too. I live in a small town where that is very common. A lot of folks take their young kids to soccer games in child hauler versions of those.
 

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Veteran
Just funnin' the Fish Stick. I know MANY urban people who depend on bikes for their transportation and it is certainly the environmentally responsible and healthy thing to do if you have a choice.

...yet I don't know anyone who lives in a fucking desert and grows herb who depends on his bike for that...gotta hand it to him for making that happen. Where there's a will...
 

unclefishstick

Fancy Janitor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Just funnin' the Fish Stick. I know MANY urban people who depend on bikes for their transportation and it is certainly the environmentally responsible and healthy thing to do if you have a choice.

...yet I don't know anyone who lives in a fucking desert and grows herb who depends on his bike for that...gotta hand it to him for making that happen. Where there's a will...
actually i read the abstract of a paper that in a nutshell said humans are far less efficient at converting caloric energy into mechanical energy than a modern car except over very short distances,i just enjoy riding a whole lot more since i suffer from crippling road rage when i drive....and this is an urban area,just not terribly civilized!
...welcome to the club. Ahh don't worry about it kid.
i will try and take solace in the remaining 19,500 points!:biggrin:
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
...but what of the observations we as cannabis growers who run cycle after cycle,cloning continually,for years make. No,we can't argue with evidence,but the BO cut for example,I have had cuts on the brink of death in locations where I wasn't attending them..loaded with mites and mold...certainly nothing healthy at all about them..and have taken cuts off those sickly BO (just in case)...and have had those cuts completely bounce back once in my care.
I'm using BO as an example because of it's age as a cut...and if Coot's anything like me he's certainly let things get relaxed over the years at one point or another when real life knocks maybe,....meaning that BO has possibly gone through some of these 'damages' to the genetic information in it's past as well as when in my possession...and if evidence says so,why does she still respond beautifully to positive environmental conditions???? I do not know.

I repeat;
It is indeed interesting if/that rehabilitation can occur as a reverse process.

One might also note that the supposed known causes of epigenetic damage relate to oxydization, virus, light damage. Also note that damage occurring may not present as a visible trait. In the case of what I observed and hypothesized to be inherited damage, it was leaf and floral deformity presenting as a relatively constant unique trait.

This was also in plants carried for many years.

neat little read
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u77774w523u88183/fulltext.pdf

then there is this
http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110729.html
 
So there's nothing special about dolomite except for its cal/mag content?How come so many people worry about this amendment in their soil mix? Does any form of cal/mag do what they're after with the dolomite?

I know you guys don't use it but I just don't get it...
 

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
So there's nothing special about dolomite except for its cal/mag content?How come so many people worry about this amendment in their soil mix? Does any form of cal/mag do what they're after with the dolomite?

OrganicLearner

Dolomite Lime = Elemental Calcium + Magnesium Carbonate

Limestone = Calcium Carbonate + elemental Magnesium

Gypsum - Elemental Calcium + Sulfur

Oyster shell powder = Calcium Carbonate

Carbonates require Sulfuric acid + microbial action for the bonds to be broken releasing the elements (ions). Sulfuric acid is the result of chemical reaction with Sulfer and water and oxygen which is what happens in the soil, again with microbial actions.

The problem for new gardeners in this discussion is the how they're taught to measure the pH from the experts - i.e. by taking a reading of the run-off. That tells you absolutely nothing about the soil's pH numbers - nada. For that you want to take the actual potting soil, mix with RO water to make a slurry and then take your reading on the slurry. That is something approximating the soil's pH - not by taking a reading of the runoff.

In order to push the Dolomite Lime myth all kinds of interesting 'science' is presented like 'magnesium hungry strains' (vs. nitrogen hungry strains). This comes from a complete and total lack of understanding of how elements (ions) are absorbed and adsorbed by the plant's roots.

"The blind leading the blind"

CC
 

unclefishstick

Fancy Janitor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
My first one included the taunt "faggot" which really crushed my spirit.

All over Fox Farms Ocean Forest - touching isn't it?

LMAO
it warms the cockles! im just surprised it took 26,000 post to finally get one.....actually this is the second now that i think back...
hey,at least they manned up and left a real neg rep rather than hiding behind the unhelpful post button.


by the by,thanks for the links MM! now if i could only find a use for the goatheads that grow in the yard!
 
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