Living organic soil from start through recycling

[ClackamasCootz]

EDIT: a little further research suggests that the cultivar is actually Dominican in origin, but as with most illegal things in NYC, this could be an intentional deception.

That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing since Hispaniola (today's Dominican Republic) was one of if not the first colony in the Caribbean that brought slaves from Africa to work the sugar plantations as early as 1510.

Slavery was centered in Nigeria which has had cannabis cultivation going back several centuries.

CC

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing since Hispaniola (today's Dominican Republic) was one of if not the first colony in the Caribbean that brought slaves from Africa to work the sugar plantations as early as 1510.

Slavery was centered in Nigeria which has had cannabis cultivation going back several centuries.

CC

Did some great research in this direction when I was designing the Incredibowl - the 'first pipe' (pre-dating even bone chillums) was found in West Africa: they would dig a tunnel 10' long or so with a hole on each end. In one hole, the subject would put his head, in the other would be heaped plants (stalks, leaves, and all) freshly torn down and ignited with a huge piece of charcoal - sounds fun, no?

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing since Hispaniola (today's Dominican Republic) was one of if not the first colony in the Caribbean that brought slaves from Africa to work the sugar plantations as early as 1510.

Slavery was centered in Nigeria which has had cannabis cultivation going back several centuries.

CC

Dominican bud = good
Dominican growers in Harlem = good chance of getting my face cut with a box cutter for asking too many questions

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Did some great research in this direction when I was designing the Incredibowl - the 'first pipe' (pre-dating even bone chillums) was found in West Africa: they would dig a tunnel 10' long or so with a hole on each end. In one hole, the subject would put his head, in the other would be heaped plants (stalks, leaves, and all) freshly torn down and ignited with a huge piece of charcoal - sounds fun, no?

Here's another avenue to go down - Kerala was trading with Nigeria as early as 150 BCE. Then look at the history of sativa cannabis cultivation in Kerala specifically. The pre-sadhu Brahmins are believed to have taken their cannabis to Nepal when the various Hindu temples were built during India's Age of Glory. We also know that The Buddha had to address cannabis consumption in his earliest teachings.

India was also trading with Greece, Persia, Egypt and Rome on a huge scale as well as China & modern day Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. The movement & exchange of plants (of all kinds) was a huge part of trading in that era by all cultures to add variety to their diet and livestock but more importantly to find plants that would do better than their current ones.

Just for sh*ts & grins

CC

 

[bajangreen]

Clackamas am i glad to see you. dude, i got me a big pile of manure, it smells like pig not to sure as it's aged well, but the problem is that it has in a lot of worms looking like magots. i want to know if they will kill my suckers or not. they look just like maggots. do you know what these are?

 

[shmalphy]

if it' pig manure, it probably is maggots, they eat everything, at least the pigs around here do.. The stench coming off the pig farm in summer is disgusting, or it could be the EPA superfund toxic dump that is 1/4 mile away from it... probably both...

 

[shmalphy]

Saw these and just had to laugh, I am sure most here will do the same

http://www.rocknutrients.com/index.php/products/product/37

"Just pull the draw string tight and remove the Pot Sox, along with all of the used grow medium. Dispose of both and start again."

And they are disposable to boot.

 

[BlueJayWay]

Sad and funny at the same time

 

[E.C. Organics]

Little update. A week ago I had to transplant into Gascanastans soil mix which smelled and still smells absolutely putrid. The mix was 2 weeks into 'cooking'. Plants were burned slightly some took it better than others. My Chemdog x SFV OGK looks the worst with some weird black and dark coloring as well as burns on lower leaves which are dying and falling off as a result. They have many deficiencies like magnesium and calcium but the newer growth that just started is looking normal. In short I expected all of this. I did also notice that that the temperature of the pots they were in was easily noticeable by touch. I am guessing some of the roots were heated up and hurt by this causing just a little stunt in growth. I made sure to water only little in an effort to not drown the roots and allow them to recover.

We will see how quickly they recover from here. I will update around the 30th. I also tried popping some seeds in the soil just for a test and all of them died. I did not like the density of the soil at all for seedlings. It can really harden up when watered especially when you let it dry a little and I do not mean letting it go bone dry. I find I need way more perlite in the mix than what is recommended and even used the extra gallon of peat moss that was recommended if it seemed to muddy.


Question:

Do any of you use this soil to start seeds in after if has been 'cooked' long enough and have success? I am currently working on a seedling mix using this soil as a base but it may be a waste of time as the seeds may have just died after sprouting due to the mix not sitting long enough rather than the compaction/hardness of it.

 

[Gardens Keeper]

Saw these and just had to laugh, I am sure most here will do the same

http://www.rocknutrients.com/index.php/products/product/37

View Image

"Just pull the draw string tight and remove the Pot Sox, along with all of the used grow medium. Dispose of both and start again."

And they are disposable to boot.

LOL, their advertising slogan...

Hydroponic Nutrients, Additives & Hardware
create the balance...

Key words are create the balance. Why would I want to make more work for my self when nature has already had millions of years to evolve and create it for me? Sure saves a lot of guess work and trial and error.

Love the pot sock too I have always wanted to keep my pots clean. I love how they recommend throwing the sock away much less waste the medium I am using so that you have to buy another/more instead of just washing it. These chemical companies are always looking out for our best interest it seems.

 

[Gascanastan]

Little update. A week ago I had to transplant into Gascanastans soil mix which smelled and still smells absolutely putrid. The mix was 2 weeks into 'cooking'. Plants were burned slightly some took it better than others. My Chemdog x SFV OGK looks the worst with some weird black and dark coloring as well as burns on lower leaves which are dying and falling off as a result. They have many deficiencies like magnesium and calcium but the newer growth that just started is looking normal. In short I expected all of this. I did also notice that that the temperature of the pots they were in was easily noticeable by touch. I am guessing some of the roots were heated up and hurt by this causing just a little stunt in growth. I made sure to water only little in an effort to not drown the roots and allow them to recover.

We will see how quickly they recover from here. I will update around the 30th. I also tried popping some seeds in the soil just for a test and all of them died. I did not like the density of the soil at all for seedlings. It can really harden up when watered especially when you let it dry a little and I do not mean letting it go bone dry. I find I need way more perlite in the mix than what is recommended and even used the extra gallon of peat moss that was recommended if it seemed to muddy.


Question:

Do any of you use this soil to start seeds in after if has been 'cooked' long enough and have success? I am currently working on a seedling mix using this soil as a base but it may be a waste of time as the seeds may have just died after sprouting due to the mix not sitting long enough rather than the compaction/hardness of it.

Remember this is a base mix intended for recycling...it was designed to be rich off the starting line,fully cooked and used again indefinitely.

As you can now see first hand,this is why it is so important to allow ample time for uncomposted amendments to fully break down.
Room is made in the recipe for the soil operator/user to adjust the drainage and aeration depending upon the quality and material you have access to....this has to be right as well. The drainage and aeration amendments are a base mix suggestion to start. Adjust accordingly despite the measurements of the base mix recipe.

Different types of composts,EWC,topsoils all have different consistencies...it's up to you to find the correct %'s at that point. Some topsoils may have more sand...others more clay...you get the picture.

DO NOT plant any seedlings into this mix...seedlings don't need a rich soil mix like this for the first few weeks of life. Go get a seedling mix....this mix is too hot for seedlings...it hasn't been run through a cycle yet and it's definitely not done cooking.

Also if the EWC or compost is not of great humic value...as in shoddy made compost or EWC...you WILL have problems due to a lack of humic material....guaranteed.

To make a seedling mix:

1 gallon perlite/pumice
1 gallon peat moss
2 tablespoons dolomite,oyster shell,etc.
1/2 gallon EWC

 

[E.C. Organics]

Yea I figured it would do this I just wanted to do it anyways so that others would know your plants aren't just going to up and die on you if for some reason you absolutely had to transplant into soil that is not done (as long as the transplant is sufficient size for the pot it will be planted in). My plants were 12-15 inches upon going into the unfinished mix.

Thank you very much for the seedling mix I will be making that asap, a golden recipe to have. Saved me good amount of toying around. I have high hopes for this soil the texture look and everything other than the smell just seems solid. I will come back and post pictures of the different reactions of different transplants as it is clear in picture form and should help someone someday rest at ease.

 

[all natural]

I mixed up a version of Gascanastan's soil mix at the beginning of this thread, let it "cook" for about a month. I transplanted a small Mango Widow clone into this mix and it is looking great, In fact i only was able to give it a 3 week veg because it was getting too big and these mango widows can stretch a little bit. I have also recently put 7 pck seed directly in the soil mix and 6 of 7 popped and they seem to be doing great so far. I also have a few other plants ijn this mix and they are all doing great.
Im guessing you didnt let it sit long enough, this mix does smell very bad during the first 2 weeks of cooking. But after the third week the smell seems to be neutralized.I like it, so far my plants are looking really healthy. I'll try CC mix next .

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Veganically speaking......

In the last few days I've found 3 compost products available in PDX that do not include animal manure.

The first 2 are from George, Washington (and that is not a joke) out in the Columbia River Gorge:

Soil SupliMint is a natural and rich organic compost made exclusively from mint hay, providing all growers with an environmentally friendly alternative to synthetic fertilizers and animal waste compost.

- Soil SupliMint is intensely nutrient-rich, earth friendly soil amendment that is both fine in texture and near black in color.

- It is especially good for agriculture applications thanks to its high levels of nitrogen, potassium, and trace minerals.

- Soil SupliMint is Listed by the WSDA

Royal Classic is versatile organic compost made from tree limbs, grass clippings, leaves, and other common green waste materials.

- Royal Classic compost is rich in organic plant matter and coarser in texture, making it great for nearly every situation that requires organic material.

- It is screened to meet individual requirements, making it ideal for custom blending and easy application.

- Royal Classic is listed by the WSDA for use in organic production, as well as WSDOT for use in erosion control

The company also offers a product, Royal Supreme, which is a blend of the first two. Both of the straight compost products are available for $15.00 per c.f. at the usual place

The other product is from Portland, Oregon and is Oregon Tilth Certified Organic (OTCO) and is available for pick-up or delivery. It's made from organic fruit, vegetable, leaf, and grass compost. 1/2 yard (13.5 c.f.) is $19.00 and a full yard is $29.00 - you can't assemble the ingredients for that price. I had 3 yards delivered this afternoon and with delivery charges it came out to $147.00 and there is no sales tax in Oregon so even with delivery it was < $50.00 a yard

It is however very dark brown - not quite black so I definitely dodged a bullet there.

CC

 

[b_all_in]

CC

CC

A couple days ago you had asked me to drop some different varieties of pumice that I found into their own jars of water and get back to you with the results. I didnt notice any significant changes in them. The grey one that crumbles easily did fall apart really easily when i poked it with a chopstick, but that was to be expected I guess. The reddish one turned a little more red it seems like. The tan/white one didnt really do anything at all. Should I use any of these for aeration or mineral content? My 3 year old and I love rock finding and we went out and found a lot what I think is volcanic rock that would also be suitable for aeration. It is grey with a lot of holes in it. Your thoughts? Is there anything I can do with all the granite around here?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

b_all_in

Did they float? That was what I should have mentioned - the floating paradigm.

CC

 

[b_all_in]

Oh, no they didnt. I never thought of that, pumice floats doesnt it?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Oh, no they didnt. I never thought of that, pumice floats doesnt it?

It can but doesn't always. Do a search on 'pumice rafts' if you really want to be stunned - to say the least.

Here's a simple explanation on how Pumice is formed:

Pumice is created when super-heated, highly pressurized rock is violently ejected from a volcano. The unusual foamy configuration of pumice happens because of simultaneous rapid cooling and rapid depressurization. The depressurization creates bubbles by lowering the solubility of gases (including water and CO2) that are dissolved in the lava, causing the gases to rapidly exsolve (like the bubbles of CO2 that appear when a carbonated drink is opened). The simultaneous cooling and depressurization freezes the bubbles in the matrix.

When larger amounts of gas are present, the result is a finer-grained variety of pumice known as pumicite. Pumice is considered a glass because it has no crystal structure. Pumice varies in density according to the thickness of the solid material between the bubbles; many samples float in water. After the explosion of Krakatoa, rafts of pumice drifted through the Pacific Ocean for up to 20 years, with tree trunks floating among them. In fact, pumice rafts disperse and support several marine species.

In 1979, 1984 and 2006, underwater volcanic eruptions near Tonga created large pumice rafts, some as large as 30 km that floated hundreds of kilometres to Fiji.

Pumice which cools under pressure results in Obsidian and there are 'black pumice' products from time to time at the farm stores around here though most of what we have available comes from the Redmond Basin (near Bend) and the Klamath Basin in Southern Oregon. This state has several active volcanos (the Cascades) - Mt. Hood, Sisters, Jefferson. et al. which produced basaltic lava as well as Pumice.

So there is almost zilch as far as mineralization for your soils. However, it is, IMHO, a premium aeration amendment given the structure, i.e. lots of holes. Pumice is the preferred aeration with commercial nurseries in the valley here. It's less expensive than Perlite when bought in commercial size lots, i.e. 1 c.y. totes.

HTH

CC

 

[b_all_in]

CC

CC

OK then it looks like I have more soil aeration than one could shake a proverbial stick at. Thanks Coot!

 

[hope2toke]

Hi great thread with nice topics and bud porn, I have been lurking the past months... gascan i sent you a PM, right now it says i have total 1 message in my inbox and %100 full so I don't think I can receive PMs. any way I will keep posting as funtime told me I get more privileges after summiting 50 posts.