1108 is a plant a friend dubbed the "truth". A second generation from bagseed, produced and distributed in a hispanic part of BK back in the 90's. Truth and her sisters, wish I had kept them all.
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Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...
- Thread starter gaiusmarius
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1108 is a plant a friend dubbed the "truth". A second generation from bagseed, produced and distributed in a hispanic part of BK back in the 90's. Truth and her sisters, wish I had kept them all.
MJtheIndicator
Member
As regards larvicide, aren't Bti and B. sphaericus both naturally occurring soil bacterium?
Sup guys.... Glad to see the ROLS philosophy is alive and brewing here... And as always there is a little bit of "challenge" interjected.. LOL .. Well I hope to add to the conversation with my next cycle of outdoor 4x4 raised beds and 100 gallons pots. Preparing the soil now with top dressed amendments and of course the almighty EWC and compost components. Can't wait to plant the clovers and get the party started!!
_tessarecting
ஓ
@Mj I know BT for sure is
@Weird Wow!
@Weird Wow!
So far I haven't had success with no till. Recycled soil yes, but when it comes to planting from a small container directly into a 15 gallon the plants seem to stand still.
I would usually pot up 4 times on my way to a 15 gallon making sure roots are really well developed each time. I understood you need the least amount of disturbance in the large container, so the idea is to get the tiny plant in there as soon as possible?
I would usually pot up 4 times on my way to a 15 gallon making sure roots are really well developed each time. I understood you need the least amount of disturbance in the large container, so the idea is to get the tiny plant in there as soon as possible?
Let us start with the difference between results you like versus ones you do not like.
Recycling the soil is the hard part, no til the easy part. There must be some information in the difference in how you deploy them both that is making a difference.
Would you mind sharing your mix in both scenarios?
Recycling the soil is the hard part, no til the easy part. There must be some information in the difference in how you deploy them both that is making a difference.
Would you mind sharing your mix in both scenarios?
40% Canadian peat moss (Lambert)
40% perlite
20% EWC
Every 10 gallons of the above mix I amend with:
3rd cup: Bone meal
Dolomite lime
Calcitic lime
Gypsum
Kelp powder
Volcanic rock dust
The above works great for me especially with new soil!!
If I am recycling the soil then I amend again with half the above amounts
For the no till I top dressed the amendments with some EWC, again half as much as the original mix!
40% perlite
20% EWC
Every 10 gallons of the above mix I amend with:
3rd cup: Bone meal
Dolomite lime
Calcitic lime
Gypsum
Kelp powder
Volcanic rock dust
The above works great for me especially with new soil!!
If I am recycling the soil then I amend again with half the above amounts
For the no till I top dressed the amendments with some EWC, again half as much as the original mix!
based on the first run works well and all things equal your no till sounds anaerobic, that is, after your first harvest the active biology slows and dies off and doesn't really kick back in.
A simply way to test that theory is to use a simple EWC tea when you pull and before you replant.
I haven't found any organic mix that worked well first run and recycled horribly from a organic material perspective. I played around heavily with underfeeding because it is my preference and found microbiology to be a key factor in getting soils to perform.
I really like keeping worm populations in my no til because they seem to maintain soil properties like this by proxy.
Also it may be worth investigating coots alternate to lime, think it is oyster shell and gypsum for there might be some issues with lime over recycles. It was removed from my mix before I started no til. It is talked about extensively in some of the LOS ROLS threads.
A simply way to test that theory is to use a simple EWC tea when you pull and before you replant.
I haven't found any organic mix that worked well first run and recycled horribly from a organic material perspective. I played around heavily with underfeeding because it is my preference and found microbiology to be a key factor in getting soils to perform.
I really like keeping worm populations in my no til because they seem to maintain soil properties like this by proxy.
Also it may be worth investigating coots alternate to lime, think it is oyster shell and gypsum for there might be some issues with lime over recycles. It was removed from my mix before I started no til. It is talked about extensively in some of the LOS ROLS threads.
Yes I forgot to say I mix in the limes first time around and then I leave it out!
The EWC I am using has some sand and grit in it, must I remove it so that it does not build up over time?
mrS0ul
Meatball in Residence
Hey Moses we have just wrapped up recycle tests on lime based bases. I find that you have to throw in a little. I just eyeball it and say for a 10-12 gallon of mix with one full solid run I use a healthy fist full or so.
I got big hands. Hey Now!
So if we don't re-amend there have been some strains that made it fine but the first thing we see is stage one mag def fairly quickly on a small section of indica indica / sativa hybrids that where up in the rotation when it was time to uppot coming out of the cup. Say 3 weeks the uppot. When vigor sets in, in a flash subtle stage one mag def. This could be due to a number of things causing uptake problems etc etc. yada yada. I do not know with certainty. There may be other problems to follow as this is far as we went with it. We recycle all our mix and just work it out on the fly.
Notable we are moving to the coots and will know soon how the non lime recycled behaves before too long.
What is interesting to us, empirical but inconclusive, is we find with coots if you hold out Basalt [fresh mix composted 33 days minimum / with optimal environmentals] you get an almost identical result as the scenario above.
I got big hands. Hey Now!
So if we don't re-amend there have been some strains that made it fine but the first thing we see is stage one mag def fairly quickly on a small section of indica indica / sativa hybrids that where up in the rotation when it was time to uppot coming out of the cup. Say 3 weeks the uppot. When vigor sets in, in a flash subtle stage one mag def. This could be due to a number of things causing uptake problems etc etc. yada yada. I do not know with certainty. There may be other problems to follow as this is far as we went with it. We recycle all our mix and just work it out on the fly.
Notable we are moving to the coots and will know soon how the non lime recycled behaves before too long.
What is interesting to us, empirical but inconclusive, is we find with coots if you hold out Basalt [fresh mix composted 33 days minimum / with optimal environmentals] you get an almost identical result as the scenario above.
Oh ok I have noticed some interveinal chlorosis, nothing too serious could that be lack of lime? Pretty sure it's not N deficiency!!
Steve Solomon (the basis of coots formula) uses ag lime. Unless you're fond of paying for trendy names, there's little difference between ag lime and oystershell. Both have trace and similar CCE.
2-1-1 (lime-gypsum-dolomite) gives a better ratio of Ca-Mg. Can't recall the difference.
Could be lack of Mg or an imbalance. If there's enough soil worth testing I can't think of a more accurate way to determine which.
Never did like blindly topdressing/reamending but then I never had enough soil to justify the test.
2-1-1 (lime-gypsum-dolomite) gives a better ratio of Ca-Mg. Can't recall the difference.
Could be lack of Mg or an imbalance. If there's enough soil worth testing I can't think of a more accurate way to determine which.
Never did like blindly topdressing/reamending but then I never had enough soil to justify the test.
fwiw powdered oyster shell is dredged up from a fossil deposit at the bottom of san francisco bay.
2013 SMARA MINE INSPECTION Morris Tug & Barge Marine Oyster Shell Mining
2013 SMARA MINE INSPECTION Morris Tug & Barge Marine Oyster Shell Mining
How small is the container prior to the 15 gal? Standing still seems odd, sounds like transplant shock of some sort or maybe overwatering? They usually take off, if even the first 2-3 days are a little slow. That said, you can certainly plant a big root ball into the final container. Whoever gave you the idea it needs to be a tiny plant was talking shit. I would up pot as you were and then go into the final no-till container to flower.
What size container were you usually in right before 15's?
Do you have a photo of it? It might actually be a K deficiency depending on how you apply the dolomite lime and what your Ca/Mg levels are. Your mix seems light on K as it is. Couple quick Q's: do you know your soil pH by chance? What is the texture of your soil? Are you watering to run off routinely?
Thanx for the reply Rasputin, the plants were in party cups!
What can I add to raise K levels?
I do not know the soil PH.
I water until just before run off would start!
The soil is developing a hard crust on top of the containers from top dressing with EWC!
What can I add to raise K levels?
I do not know the soil PH.
I water until just before run off would start!
The soil is developing a hard crust on top of the containers from top dressing with EWC!
one.sixoneeight
Member
pulverized aragonite is an excellent source of Ca and unique microbiology
