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Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...
- Thread starter gaiusmarius
- Start date
The topic was coots mix, neem meal, neem oil and the effect on the phyllosphere microbiology to be precise, which are living soil methods.
I don't farm microbes for microbes sake, I farm microbes for the plant's sake and all I need to see is healthy plant through harvest to know everything is working correctly.
Why make it more complex than it need be.
That is interesting because your not a scientist and science doesn't have a grow here on IC mag.
Also you can't provide any science that shows the neem oil degradation eliminates any phyllosphere bacteria necessary or beneficial in cannabis cultivation, because it doesn't exist.
Just like your science degree, or mastery of any of the methodology we discuss here on the boards.
I am definitely not a scientist, nor have I made that claim. But does that really impede one from taking a less broscience approach?
Curious, where's the information that proves your point? The budshots? The first ten pdfs that popped up when you Googled neem?
Curious, where's the information that proves your point? The budshots? The first ten pdfs that popped up when you Googled neem?
pragmatic gardening principles are broscience?
Well beyond your lack of providing any science to back your position?
Let's see. A starting knowledge of phyllopshere bacteria would be handy. A little due diligence will reveal one of the very few recognized beneficial phyllosphere bacteria used in cannabis cultivation. I posted the families of bacteria so people could research what they where, I guess no on did their homework.
Here is your "pièce de résistance" Mikell, because of the few but beneficial bacteria on the group, BTi or Bacillus thuringiensis is compatible with neem oil, and I posted the science that proves it.
Here it is again.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03235400009383329
Bacillus thuringiensis and neem seed oil (Azadirachta indica) effects on the potato tuber moth Phthorimaea operculella zeller in the field and stores
Abstract
This does not suggest neem makes B.t. ineffective now does it?
Plenty of other articles noted the effects of neem not being all encompassing and even MM had gleaned the same from what he read, thus the "laymans" approach is the only one giving up real data right now.
ty very much for the compliment, I respect your opinion I know you see alot of plants and put a ton of effort trying to get the most out of them.
Meals I use primarily kelp, crab, some fish, some fish bone meal. I started using blood and bone and tbh I still prefer them to fish and fish bone meal.
I use neem, alfalfa and frass but I have been adding them strategically as teas (plus quality castings and occasional molasses)
For cal I use oyster shell and sometimes a little gypsum.
I added some GRD and greensand after a few runs as I used them to initially build the soil.
I have been battling a Mg def at times but I am 99% certain it is vpd, hoping to get the RH down next run or so. One of the bad habits I got into when using bottles was environmental pressures that cause deficiencies could be remedied more easily in the feed.
Also this last run I used em-1 and mycostop. I had some duds crop before and was afraid perhaps the duds might have infected teh soil but I did not want to trash my soil so I rolled the dice. Glad I didn't start from scratch. Still working through the learning curve with the gavitas, cant run them past 850, ceilings are too low for proper light dispersion but these are good problems at this point. They are teaching me still and not coming at a cost that it burns to learn.
I want to add back a little more this run but I am doing it in an extra container and letting it cook a couple weeks before I top dress it. I am finding too robust a top dress seems to pressure the microbial populations of my containers, and there is plenty for the plants to feed on out the gate so I am going to "season" the amendments with some peat castings and compost and topdress it in. I am thinking .5-1g per 10 gallon container.
fwiw I use aloe powder religiously and even grow aloe for propagation.
Boyd Crowder
Teem MiCr0B35
Sweet Suckage
good grief weird! everything is looking lush and frosty! that co sage looks like a dream to hash.
i ran outta rep already today but i'll have to come back through and drop some k+.
i ran outta rep already today but i'll have to come back through and drop some k+.
Btk is a soil bacterium that shows little prevalence in the environment, especially in regards to the phyllosphere.
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/scientific_output/files/main_documents/2540.pdf
PDF file.
Irrelvant articles followed by budshots. You are true to form, if nothing else. I get the impression you think you've made a point.
Drawing conclusions from abstracts is broscience.
Googling abstracts to support preconcieved notions is more of the same.
As is a disdain for scientific research and result, except when trying to support your opinion.
Nothing is certain in science until it has been held up to rigorous scrutiny and replicated by other researchers. And even then.
I've yet to see MM come out in support of any of your claims. He has stated a few times that he hasn't noticed much difference not using neem oil, and that it is probably preferable to use it as a remedy than constant application. Surely you recall our last "debate".
I am sure he will correct me if I have misrepresented his opinion.
This is not a conflict of ideas but one of ego and opinion. Nothing of merit will come from it.
I am reminded of why elsewhere is preferable for this topic. IC is great for cannabis specific knowledge, but generally fails with these discussions.
Your consistent effort to drive the topic in irrelevant directions is a good example.
Cue page long response with Googled abstracts on neem extracts.
Cheerio.
Nice straw man Mikell. BTi is used on the leaf surface and and lives in the "phyllopshere" to combat caterpillars. Sun degrades it but not neem oil.
That is not broscience, that is real science.
Now I was able to show how proven organic gardening techniques play out in my world, can you share how any phyllopshere interactions play out in yours? or anyone else's for that matter?
Do you have any real contributions to living soil other than devil's advocate conjecture?
I have some (samples) bacteria based products designed for the phyllopshere. They do not add to a plants potential but make up for a lack of activity in the rhizopshere.
Using them is counter intuitive to LOS
That is not broscience, that is real science.
Now I was able to show how proven organic gardening techniques play out in my world, can you share how any phyllopshere interactions play out in yours? or anyone else's for that matter?
Do you have any real contributions to living soil other than devil's advocate conjecture?
I have some (samples) bacteria based products designed for the phyllopshere. They do not add to a plants potential but make up for a lack of activity in the rhizopshere.
Using them is counter intuitive to LOS
seems like this discussion has been relatively well defined in these last few messages. "failure" may well be one person's opinion
