Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[Microbeman]

C'mon eh! Learn to grow weird. Look at all those yellow and twisted brown leaves! Nitrogen shortage...grade school stuff

 

[lalstalls]

27-gallon ROLS Container Set-up

27-gallon ROLS Container Set-up

I am inspired by you guys, and would love feedback on my unfolding plan soil, tea, and container plans. The links here just indicate what looks like a good brand or source to me. I will source much of what I need locally; but I leave the links in the post in case they’re of use to others.

I’d like to grow in a 27-gallon container under a 400w HPS light, where I plan to scrog 4 or so plants.

Starter Soil
My first concern is about whether I can even mix and store my soil (and all its components) in my fieldstone basement. It gets cold here in Zone 5a, and it’s a little damp down there at times, too.

What I’m looking at mixing is getting expensive (but part of that’s the amounts - e.g., I don’t need 6 lbs of gypsum!). But I’ll appreciate suggested simplifications:

• 6 gal sphagnum peat moss
  • I believe MicrobeMan found that Premier brand is alright. That’s probably what I’ll get. $22.32 / cuft
  • I will hydrate this first. [discussion]
  • Should I include coir/coco husk in here? (Nature’s Footprint? $5.71 / 560 g)
• 4 gal perlite
  • I know it’s not preferred; but I have it…
• 2 gal vermiculite
• 2 gal earthworm castings
  • I don’t have my own vermicomposter up and running yet. I know these are not all created equally, so I’ll avoid HomeDepot. How about Green Texan Organic Farms? Unco’s Organic? $10.99 / 5 lb
• 2 gal compost
  • My good stuff is frozen outside; if I can’t source at a local farm, does anyone know whether Charlie's Compost is okay? Or is BuffaLoam the only shit to trust? $18 / 10 lb
• 2 gal topsoil
  • I’ve got FFOF around - some used, some has been sitting in the basement and may smell a little musty, some is nice.
• .25 cup powdered dolomite lime
• .25 cup agricultural gypsum (Espoma is okay? I can get that locally) $13.97 / 6 lb
  
• .5 cup powdered oyster shell $11.76 / 6 lb
• 4 cups cup crab shell meal (Neptune's?) $17.32 / 4 lb
• 8 cups kelp meal (Down To Earth? / here’s ClackamasCootz on sources) $16.88 / 5 lb
• 8 cups fish meal (Down To Earth?) $18.99 / 5 lb
• 4 cup neem seed meal (Down To Earth?) $16.89 / 5 lb
• 2 cups alfalfa meal (Down To Earth) $9.99 / 5 lb
  
• 1 gal bentonite powder (is this the right stuff?) $6.99 / l lb
• 2 cups langbeinite $11.89 / 5 lb
  • Could I use Azomite powder instead of these other contain langbeinite, bentonite, or other mineral sources? (CC on Azomite / on “rock dust”)

I have some of these components; buying the rest (and those below) is getting pricey. As I said, simplifications are welcome! I love the simplicity of CC’s soil; but I want to make sure my mix covers the bases!

I’ve got some general questions about the soil recipe, and then some about Teas and the Container.

Questions about the soil

• How much diatomaceous earth should I add?
• Should I add a myco component? (Root Naturally Soluble Endo Mycorrhizae?) $8.95 / 2 oz
  • Or is BioAg VAM Plant Nutrient the way to go (CC’s favorite)? $18.29 / 300g (.66 lb)
  • BuildASoil.com offers a Mycorrhizal Granular Inoculum $21.53 / 1 lb
  • The inoculum from Plant Revolution (Plant Success Granular) is $17.38 / 1 lb
• Should I get worms and add them to my container at the start?
• Am I leaving out something important? For instance, how important is it to “inoculate the soil with BTI and nematodes”? (I am not sure what BTI is; is it mycorrhizal?)

Feeding with Teas / Watering / Spraying
Use a silica emulsifier - ClackamasCootz on Agsil 16 in every watering and spray:

• Powdered Agsil 16 (instead of Dyna-Gro’s Pro-tekt) $20.80 / 1 lb

Teas
How do you keep teas? For my little set-up, can I mix up 5 gal and keep it covered in the cool basement for the week? Do you filter teas using, e.g., a net bag? Or do you leave the matter in them for top-dressing?

CC’s Enzyme Tea Recipe (foliar spray + soil)

• Sprout 1/4 cup barley (or alfalfa, wheat, oat, etc.) seeds for a couple days
• Add to 1 gallon of water. Let sit for 3 or 4 days. It will turn cloudy.
• Strain and mix 2 cups of this 'tea' to 14 cups of water = 1 gallon.
• Spray your plants from top to bottom and hit the soil

Questions: Should these be sprouted to salad-ready before the soak? How much aloe vera + silica to add here?
​

CC’s Botanical Tea Recipe (foliar + soil)

• Add
  • a couple of cups of chopped, diced, pureed dandelion (or stinging nettles [cheese-grate the roots in], yarrow, horsetail ferns, comfrey [is powder worth it?] - whatever) or
  • 1 cup alfalfa meal
• to 5 gallons of water.
• Let that sit for no more than 3 days.
• Apply to the soil as well as spraying the plant from top to bottom.
• Compost the dregs.

Question: How much aloe vera + silica (Agsil 16) to add here - with what frequency?
​

• Gascanastan says 3 Tbsp of aloe vera / gallon / 3 days
• CC says .70 grams of Agsil 16 / 1 gallon of water (each watering)?

MicrobeMan’s ACT and Recipe (more discussion)

• 2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups (.5 cup max - or about 2 cups in 5 gals max)
• 0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 Tbsp per gal. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.
• 0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gal = 0.16 Tbsp = 0.479 tsp or .5 tsp
  • This is not “Alaska Fish Fertilizer”; is Neptune’s Harvest close enough? $22.32 / 32 oz
• 0.25% (max) kelp meal by volume per gallon = 0.64 Tbsp or .5 Tbsp

I like this DIY brewer and will make something like that...​

The Container
The bin is about 30” x 20” x 14”.

• Do you recommend a layer of rocks or clay pebbles for drainage (4 - 6 inches in the bottom of the container, covered by weed-block cloth)? Or just soil all the way down?
  • For when I’ll be away a couple nights:
    • Does anyone bottom-feed in ROLS (i.e., in a wicking bed container)? (Not for teas, etc., but just for keeping the moisture right)
    • Rrog and others have mentioned blumat watering systems. Do those work with ROLS? If I wanted to water teas, would the watering spikes gunk up?
• Should I mount a drain valve at the bottom of the container, in the rock layer?
  • There is no need to “flush the medium” in ROLS, right? Would there a need to let the water out?

Thanks for reading, and for any feedback about the soil, teas, or container!

 

[xmobotx]

so you're planning on using 28 cups of 'food' amendments {crab, kelp, fish, neem, alfalfa & lang} to 2.4 cubic feet of mix when coots suggested 1.5 cups of 'food' {neem, crab, kelp} amendments to 1 cubic foot? those guys are moving in the direction of less 'food' amendments.

NSM alone 'covers all the bases'
kelp alone 'covers all the bases'
crab alone 'covers all the bases'

the combination is a 3 prong 'superfood' diet {using 1/3 of each to make 1 part}

 

[Avinash.miles]

looks a lil heavy on the feed amendments, like xmobotx said
also, i don't consider FFOF to be "topsoil", if you get a decent topsoil there is a good chance there is some clay in it, which might make the bentonite not needed as well....

you have obviously spent alot of time compiling that last post... for what appears to be relatively small amount of soil - off to a good start it seems, just don't over think things

yes people do "bottom feeding" it's called "sub irrigated planters" or "sips", lots of instructions out there on them, look up global buckets for some instructions about that.
you need to decide if you are sub irrigating or top feeding as a main source of moisture in the soil, and buildout accordingly,

look into bokashi bran, imo it's a valuable soil additive that you can make at home cheap and easy (or purchase many brands, my fav is terraganix)

i personally wouldn't run teas or anything with any particulate at all thru a blumat, never tried tho.
i've setup drip lines for water soluble things and top watered in teas and things with particulates. personally i've never done organic bottom feeding / sips but have cconsidered it lately because as i understand it the sips use WAY less water, like 30% or so of what you would use if topfeeding and they work great for notill

 

[Boyd Crowder]

More Weird Type SUck

 

[lalstalls]

xmobotx & Avinash.miles: Thanks, I definitely have to stop over-thinking.

xmobotx: I will cut back on food amendments, perhaps emphasizing kelp.

Avinash.miles: You've got me thinking again about topsoil, container design, and additives. I appreciate the leads.

Any feedback on whether I should even mix and store my soil & amendments in my fieldstone basement? It gets cold here in Zone 5a. Right now, it's 46 fahrenheit and the RH is 55%. In these colder times, it stays between 38-50 f, and usually between 50-60% RH - but RH can go up when a layer of water pools on the floor in spring. (I keep soil out of that, in a large bin.)

 

[Boyd Crowder]

your soil will be fine in the basement , but you will want to give it a few extra weeks to compost if the temp is under 50*

your soil shouldnt have any smell if kept in a container, why not just mix the stuff and throw it in a couple totes and shove in a closet or out of the way indoors for a few weeks?

 

[lalstalls]

I don't have a lot of closet space where I live (and the basement and attic are both cold).

So the soil will be okay sealed up in totes in the basement? Or does it need to breathe?

 

[Boyd Crowder]

yes , it does need to be stirred up a few times but a tote is all the seal you need

 

[3rdEye]

oh noes! my plants are changing colors on me! I had better give them more N! Otherwise they might not frost up.

Living soil does wonders for complex and more complete terpene development among it's many positive attributes.

BlueberryBlast day 65 in a no till 4.5 gal container. Natural senescence making for an, immediately upon drying, smooth smoke that gets tastier with a good cure.

Happy organic day.



Tom Hill Haze F2 "Purple Phoenix" day 65 flowering. No-till 3.5 gal.

 

[heady blunts]

oooooweee that purple haze is pretty!

 

[Weird]

 

[Weird]

No chems, no cheatosan, not silly sally acids, no seeds or enzymes, no aminos, no soil test, only .25 back, 70% + RH the whole time, I forgot to blow Albrecht the list goes on.

hit 1 gpw

Embracing the suck fellas, still waiting for that fat composts and phyllopshere trials

 

[lalstalls]

Sweet frost, Weird!

... only .25 back, 70% + RH the whole time ...

70% relative humidity, but what do you mean by ".25 back"?

 

[Weird]

yeha humidity was too high but it didn't keep the plants from performing.

Normally I put back half of what I first amended with, this time I did less than that I did a quarter instead.

 

[VortexPower420]

Stop posting schwag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're trying to keep this fourm clean.

Stop trying to pass off your chem grows as og.....

 

[lalstalls]

Cool, thanks.

 

[heady blunts]

oooooooooooooooooooooo i wanna wash that! sparkly!

 

[Mikell]

No chems, no cheatosan, not silly sally acids, no seeds or enzymes, no aminos, no soil test, only .25 back, 70% + RH the whole time, I forgot to blow Albrecht the list goes on.

hit 1 gpw

Embracing the suck fellas, still waiting for that fat composts and phyllopshere trials

Great looking bud and I like the first part of the post.

The last part reminds me why I took the phyllosphere discussion elsewhere.

 

[Weird]

Great looking bud and I like the first part of the post.

The last part reminds me why I took the phyllosphere discussion elsewhere. Trolling and ego make for poor companions on the road.

Thanks for the kind words.

It is only trolling if it detracts from the truth. I share my experiences, sometimes it is words, sometimes it is pictures. I also have access to all the same research information as anyone else who is web connected.

Seems to me the later is never a substitute for the former and that trying to prove otherwise is delusional and offers no benefits.

I am the one being trolled because I have been posting pictures of my work sans fat and phyllosphere considerations (among other arguments) all these years yet no one every brings anything to the table to back up those arguments proving any merit to their hypothesis.