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Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...
- Thread starter gaiusmarius
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Buddyy
Member
Matt Dave,
"Photosynthesis produced via artificial light is not organic"...
Photosynthesis is a process used by plants and other organisms to convert light energy, normally from the Sun, into chemical energy that can be later released to fuel the organisms' activities.
From this definition it would seem that it doesn't matter whether the light is natural (the sun) or artificial. Photosynthesis is by definition an ORGANIC PROCESS and the source of light is not of consequence.
Is cannabis grown indoors in living organic soil, organically grown cannabis? YES.
"Photosynthesis produced via artificial light is not organic"...
Photosynthesis is a process used by plants and other organisms to convert light energy, normally from the Sun, into chemical energy that can be later released to fuel the organisms' activities.
From this definition it would seem that it doesn't matter whether the light is natural (the sun) or artificial. Photosynthesis is by definition an ORGANIC PROCESS and the source of light is not of consequence.
Is cannabis grown indoors in living organic soil, organically grown cannabis? YES.
It's not that it won't work for me, I just do it differently as it suits me.
This isn't a penis measuring contest Weird and I am happy that you use a no till garden and it works for you. But show me some fade instead of some shatter and I'll be more impressed.
I am not here to show off pictures or try to manoeuvre the organic principle to suit me, I know where I stand.
This is a recycled soil thread not the Penis competition.
Buddyy yes it's organic practice using soil cultivation like I stated but it's inherently inorganic from the growth perspective or Semi Organic..
It don't matter if you have a mini cooper and put a Ford badge on it it's still a Mini...
This isn't a penis measuring contest Weird and I am happy that you use a no till garden and it works for you. But show me some fade instead of some shatter and I'll be more impressed.
I am not here to show off pictures or try to manoeuvre the organic principle to suit me, I know where I stand.
This is a recycled soil thread not the Penis competition.
Buddyy yes it's organic practice using soil cultivation like I stated but it's inherently inorganic from the growth perspective or Semi Organic..
It don't matter if you have a mini cooper and put a Ford badge on it it's still a Mini...
ok dave but when I am done show me why you can't do the same with that fancy certification and you know what, i'll still be unimpressed because all your talk you can't bring the same skill to the table but you talk shit about the methodology
If I had a dime for every time some pot "expert" made empty arguments like this i'd be rich and ICMAG would have hlaf the posts.
controlled fade (organics in liq suspension) (09') just so you understand the concept it not foreign to me
fading in ROLS, letting the plants do it on their own
in reality High N is counter intuitive, greed inspired bullshit but I was hoping to not let that cat out of the bag for a while it is one of the things you learn when you seek to master the art of growing smokable flowers.
little hint for you, the x factor in soil is those little albright fairies, aka microorganisms, with which whom plant and soil have evolved based on each others presence.
when you honor these relationships in the rhizosphere through living organic soil you get benefits, if you don't understand that your certification is not worth the paper it is printed on
Dick measuring or nature honoring?
I honor nature and nature is kind enough to return the favor, sorry if you don't get it.
Leave your material mind behind for it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than it is for a man of material mind to understand the true reality of nature, the truth is in front of your face but something else distracts you from reality.
Cash croppers fear failure so they over do everything in hopes to guarantee success and never stop to try it other ways to really come to understand the plant, for that you need a whole other level of life time dedication.
It's ok, I get it, I really do.
If it makes you feel better one of the common professions strife with cognitive biases are surgeons and lawyers.
By product of granular focus, sometimes its best to zoom the lens out and try a different perspective.
little hint for you, the x factor in soil is those little albright fairies, aka microorganisms, with which whom plant and soil have evolved based on each others presence.
when you honor these relationships in the rhizosphere through living organic soil you get benefits, if you don't understand that your certification is not worth the paper it is printed on
Dick measuring or nature honoring?
I honor nature and nature is kind enough to return the favor, sorry if you don't get it.
Leave your material mind behind for it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than it is for a man of material mind to understand the true reality of nature, the truth is in front of your face but something else distracts you from reality.
Cash croppers fear failure so they over do everything in hopes to guarantee success and never stop to try it other ways to really come to understand the plant, for that you need a whole other level of life time dedication.
It's ok, I get it, I really do.
If it makes you feel better one of the common professions strife with cognitive biases are surgeons and lawyers.
By product of granular focus, sometimes its best to zoom the lens out and try a different perspective.
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What comparison pic's can you show that would provide evidence to support your claim that proves it's not just nitrogen that is doing that. Where is the senescence.. Where is the tissue analysis? Do what you like Weird.. That isn't fade... Believe what takes your fancy, that's the issue here...
Wanna say that arguing about does person can grow organic weed indoor dont have much sense...
Indoor only light is not a same as sun outdoor,all other aspects you can easily mimic
as living soil or living water,even you can put real birds in garden so they can sing to plants...
Think that indoor flower must be of better quality
and concetrates are better as they are cleaner from athmospheric residue,dust,
poissonous air particles and radiation from Fukushima for instance if you live on North cap....
Think that cause of that bad habitt of man to destroy his own outdoor enviroment
indoor growing will be discipline that will be more praised than outdoor growing...
dont know how much time for that but will happend soon as we progressing in destroying
our planet very fast.... and outdoor weed suffers in outdoor conditions as she have
pretty long ciclus and can absorb nice amount of radionuclides inside tissue...
Later you smoke buds that somehow ingested atom of Plutonium when they growed
and after this atom of Plutonium settles in your lungs you get cancer cause
of Beta radiation... then you will understand that cannabis produced in this way
dont heals at all but opposite... can made you huge medical problems..
Thats why i think indoor organic will be future of us..
Indoor only light is not a same as sun outdoor,all other aspects you can easily mimic
as living soil or living water,even you can put real birds in garden so they can sing to plants...
Think that indoor flower must be of better quality
and concetrates are better as they are cleaner from athmospheric residue,dust,
poissonous air particles and radiation from Fukushima for instance if you live on North cap....
Think that cause of that bad habitt of man to destroy his own outdoor enviroment
indoor growing will be discipline that will be more praised than outdoor growing...
dont know how much time for that but will happend soon as we progressing in destroying
our planet very fast.... and outdoor weed suffers in outdoor conditions as she have
pretty long ciclus and can absorb nice amount of radionuclides inside tissue...
Later you smoke buds that somehow ingested atom of Plutonium when they growed
and after this atom of Plutonium settles in your lungs you get cancer cause
of Beta radiation... then you will understand that cannabis produced in this way
dont heals at all but opposite... can made you huge medical problems..
Thats why i think indoor organic will be future of us..
Controlled environment is the actual term for a hybrid of the 2 growing/cultural methods and it's the way big business will work and does...
I've not insulted anyone here, you insult yourselves. I have only supported people with the way I have said each to their own and provided some controversy that has been met with a dim light to those who have already set their mind one way and thus further education is futile.
I've not insulted anyone here, you insult yourselves. I have only supported people with the way I have said each to their own and provided some controversy that has been met with a dim light to those who have already set their mind one way and thus further education is futile.
"Bringing outside inside is a poor use of space" well, duh. congratulations ~you've blown the lid off this scandal.
you could further argue that if you don;t take years building soil "up" w/ techs such as ley rotations & sheet composting that it's not outdoor organic. did you build your plot this way. of course tilling soil is cultivation. have you ever been on a farm & seen a "cultivator?" what do you suppose it does? it is however the hand of man creating a shortcut ~is that truly organic? or, does it fall under the category of the artificial light issue?
of course an outdoor organic grow of traditional style is going to yield more per input than a crafted indoor mix. but then, applying the same standard, man making inputs; it's an introduced plot not native to that particular micro-climate/location. are the cultivars you choose native to your region? what if you employ crop protection such as row covers or shade cloth or even a hoop house a'la eliot coleman?
many of these same arguments have been established & disputed for years. clearly there is a subjective line which varies dramatically & some people are just going to have to agree to disagree.
but, mate dave; you have introduced new arguments which are clearly baseless. "using worms in containers is not organic," "barley straw has a deleterious effect in containers,"
i will readily agree that adding amendments throughout the cycle is bad horti-practice ~in practice. Perhaps i should stipulate that this is a learning effort to help find proper amendment levels ~as weird states it "come in from the underfeed" I endorse this thinking because stoner-science has led us astray w/ thinkings like a hot mix is good & cannabis is a heavy feeder. soil-testing can serve this same purpose but it's clear that soil testing is no end all approach either.
stating your credentials as if they substantiate your argument is something of a red flag to someone who knows a little psychology, your words should have authority. what you say should stand on it's own. w/ your credentials, you should understand personal authority vs positional or organizational authority. resorting to ad hom takes this issue a step further, serving to punctuate what we've established w/ "my credentials make me right" statements.
"that isn't fade" seriously? it's just starting to get light here. would you like to tell me the day is almost over here {now?}
you could further argue that if you don;t take years building soil "up" w/ techs such as ley rotations & sheet composting that it's not outdoor organic. did you build your plot this way. of course tilling soil is cultivation. have you ever been on a farm & seen a "cultivator?" what do you suppose it does? it is however the hand of man creating a shortcut ~is that truly organic? or, does it fall under the category of the artificial light issue?
of course an outdoor organic grow of traditional style is going to yield more per input than a crafted indoor mix. but then, applying the same standard, man making inputs; it's an introduced plot not native to that particular micro-climate/location. are the cultivars you choose native to your region? what if you employ crop protection such as row covers or shade cloth or even a hoop house a'la eliot coleman?
many of these same arguments have been established & disputed for years. clearly there is a subjective line which varies dramatically & some people are just going to have to agree to disagree.
but, mate dave; you have introduced new arguments which are clearly baseless. "using worms in containers is not organic," "barley straw has a deleterious effect in containers,"
i will readily agree that adding amendments throughout the cycle is bad horti-practice ~in practice. Perhaps i should stipulate that this is a learning effort to help find proper amendment levels ~as weird states it "come in from the underfeed" I endorse this thinking because stoner-science has led us astray w/ thinkings like a hot mix is good & cannabis is a heavy feeder. soil-testing can serve this same purpose but it's clear that soil testing is no end all approach either.
stating your credentials as if they substantiate your argument is something of a red flag to someone who knows a little psychology, your words should have authority. what you say should stand on it's own. w/ your credentials, you should understand personal authority vs positional or organizational authority. resorting to ad hom takes this issue a step further, serving to punctuate what we've established w/ "my credentials make me right" statements.
"that isn't fade" seriously? it's just starting to get light here. would you like to tell me the day is almost over here {now?}
Credentials go a long way.. Further than nonsense... Agree to disagree is what this is about I think.
Thank you for agreeing with my most important statement. I stand by the fact that Barley Straw has better uses and that perhaps if your feed/soil fertility was hot then mulching with it would be ok but it's a negative input in my view. Probably works in a soil that has to be broken down and processed and is plausible but as I have stated I see other ways of getting the desired growth effects.
I have done a course that involved farm machinery and PTO attachments and I am qualified to drive them. We used all sorts depending on the soil structure and crop to be grow. Ie onion beds and potato ridges, 7 furrow ploughs and power harrows and rollers, drillers etc. This is all needed to feed the worlds overpopulation because chop and drop isn't going to cut it for the future and sure enough neither is organic practice for the most part.
I had to learn it all to pass... But I did more than was needed to pass and got Top marks...
My plot was inherited so I do not know the extent of the Practice that was implemented before I took it over except that he was an organic gardner and was gardening it during the Wars. When I dug a pit to do a real soil test I had surface horizons that were deeper then 12" in places and you could see the mulching.. It had an OM content of 19% what is very close to perfect but not quite that of organic standards.
So fade or no fade it's supportive to any argument to have documentation to back up so called claims. Fade and proving it are 2 separate things. But without a soil test and tissue analysis It's all BS.
My view point is standing up without showing my credentials isn't it. That's my point I don't need to back up these claims like you need to disprove them with facts and evidence. Mine are already proven..
Thank you for agreeing with my most important statement. I stand by the fact that Barley Straw has better uses and that perhaps if your feed/soil fertility was hot then mulching with it would be ok but it's a negative input in my view. Probably works in a soil that has to be broken down and processed and is plausible but as I have stated I see other ways of getting the desired growth effects.
I have done a course that involved farm machinery and PTO attachments and I am qualified to drive them. We used all sorts depending on the soil structure and crop to be grow. Ie onion beds and potato ridges, 7 furrow ploughs and power harrows and rollers, drillers etc. This is all needed to feed the worlds overpopulation because chop and drop isn't going to cut it for the future and sure enough neither is organic practice for the most part.
I had to learn it all to pass... But I did more than was needed to pass and got Top marks...
My plot was inherited so I do not know the extent of the Practice that was implemented before I took it over except that he was an organic gardner and was gardening it during the Wars. When I dug a pit to do a real soil test I had surface horizons that were deeper then 12" in places and you could see the mulching.. It had an OM content of 19% what is very close to perfect but not quite that of organic standards.
So fade or no fade it's supportive to any argument to have documentation to back up so called claims. Fade and proving it are 2 separate things. But without a soil test and tissue analysis It's all BS.
My view point is standing up without showing my credentials isn't it. That's my point I don't need to back up these claims like you need to disprove them with facts and evidence. Mine are already proven..
i said; "but, mate dave; you have introduced new arguments which are clearly baseless. "using worms in containers is not organic," "barley straw has a deleterious effect in containers,"" i should have used a colon instead of a period before quoting your baseless statements. i can't see the value of your credentials when contrasted w/ your reading comprehension.
not impressed. saying "i took a class" isn't helping your case.
not impressed here either. saying "i have some land someone else developed" is a non-factor in the conversation
this is gibberish. inasmuch as "fade" references the yellowing/fall colors of a plant in senescence, a picture of a yellowed plant w/ fall colors definitely proves fade occurred. still not impressed
actually, no ~your continued reference to your credentials & your non-point, barely relevant "citations" stand up to nothing but apparently your own mis-informed opinion. you have proven nothing. & your comments border on completely irrelevant.
maybe you're so focused on whatever your focused on {i doubt it} you don't see what's around you? i'm getting the clear impression that you are trolling. if you actually believe what you're saying. idk what to say. maybe you can find someone to listen to this in one of your classrooms. here it isn't really a discussion. it smacks of trolling real hard
Boring... I remember when you had 1 post.. You've not changed..
Got any proof other than the nonsense you just wrote out to try to draw reference to your gibberish?
Proof?
If I am speculating then you should be able to back up your side with science. Documents and evidence but you haven't. You just 'trolled' as you put it..... Anyone who wants to see the truth can... They just need to read further than @ IC mag, maybe some where thats a horticultural authority and do a bit of homework like you should to get some evidence to support your claim.. After all it's where I got my so called Theory from.. Not a internet forum Dude..
Anyone can chat on a forum it takes a man to do some research and better their knowledge on these matters..
It's simple logic once you know the horticultural fundamentals.
Your 1 person finds this helpful speaks volumes.
I should put in a scheduled fee for quoting.. That's my work.. I may have to copy write it.
Anyway, I will from now on just post evidence to support my theory as you say, then perhaps you could do the decency of perhaps doing the same instead of trolling and filling the thread with copy pastes.
You'll be copy pasting and quoting my evidence then mate...
This should help you with C-N ratios. I'll use an Aussie document because it's the same here there and everywhere, it's not different in your backyard the science is the same.
Reference this to that of your own 'Nations' leading authority.
This link explains the 'Barley Straw' drawdown you don't agree with..
http://www.sesl.com.au/uploads/articles/Mulches_and_Soil_Improvers.pdf
There are multiple reasons why outsourced Barley Straw is a poor soil mulch.
I now understand that 'little digs' are your style, You like toy wind folk up to get them banned so your opinion can have some authority. I've read your posts since that 1st one you did way back when..
Got any proof other than the nonsense you just wrote out to try to draw reference to your gibberish?
Proof?
If I am speculating then you should be able to back up your side with science. Documents and evidence but you haven't. You just 'trolled' as you put it..... Anyone who wants to see the truth can... They just need to read further than @ IC mag, maybe some where thats a horticultural authority and do a bit of homework like you should to get some evidence to support your claim.. After all it's where I got my so called Theory from.. Not a internet forum Dude..
Anyone can chat on a forum it takes a man to do some research and better their knowledge on these matters..
It's simple logic once you know the horticultural fundamentals.
Your 1 person finds this helpful speaks volumes.
I should put in a scheduled fee for quoting.. That's my work.. I may have to copy write it.
Anyway, I will from now on just post evidence to support my theory as you say, then perhaps you could do the decency of perhaps doing the same instead of trolling and filling the thread with copy pastes.
You'll be copy pasting and quoting my evidence then mate...
This should help you with C-N ratios. I'll use an Aussie document because it's the same here there and everywhere, it's not different in your backyard the science is the same.
Reference this to that of your own 'Nations' leading authority.
This link explains the 'Barley Straw' drawdown you don't agree with..
http://www.sesl.com.au/uploads/articles/Mulches_and_Soil_Improvers.pdf
There are multiple reasons why outsourced Barley Straw is a poor soil mulch.
I now understand that 'little digs' are your style, You like toy wind folk up to get them banned so your opinion can have some authority. I've read your posts since that 1st one you did way back when..
Weird.http://jcs.biologists.org/content/126/21/4823 I'll find more to educate you and your buddies as to how to produce evidence showing optimal growth characteristics..
It's only been about a decade or more this information and I would have a guess that most of us have been really stoned and self indulgent in the last 10. I was.
I was recently in horticultural education though and this is the norm these days for students and the future of the industry. We go further than "bro science" and stoner logic..
So yeah a faded plant is faded or 'prematurely short of nutriment', but senescence is senescence..
Theses are horticultural terms and IC mags Glossary is vague at best. I would suggest everyone buys an up to date horticultural/botanical encyclopaedia.
Just because you can put a sentence together don't meant that your correct. The value of my credentials is gonna be something that I will show you with a worm and plastic pot reference..
I think I'll email The 'Organic Society' perhaps ask their 'experts' to put it in writing so that you and your fancy english that you choose not to follow to the letter will perhaps resinate and be understood and you can find your own interpretation and change it to suit 'Bro Science.' Or maybe I'll change the dictionary on my mac to Yank...
It's only been about a decade or more this information and I would have a guess that most of us have been really stoned and self indulgent in the last 10. I was.
I was recently in horticultural education though and this is the norm these days for students and the future of the industry. We go further than "bro science" and stoner logic..
So yeah a faded plant is faded or 'prematurely short of nutriment', but senescence is senescence..
Theses are horticultural terms and IC mags Glossary is vague at best. I would suggest everyone buys an up to date horticultural/botanical encyclopaedia.
Just because you can put a sentence together don't meant that your correct. The value of my credentials is gonna be something that I will show you with a worm and plastic pot reference..
I think I'll email The 'Organic Society' perhaps ask their 'experts' to put it in writing so that you and your fancy english that you choose not to follow to the letter will perhaps resinate and be understood and you can find your own interpretation and change it to suit 'Bro Science.' Or maybe I'll change the dictionary on my mac to Yank...
they where green till they matured and they matured because I dropped room temps
your cute dave, in a toddler wearing mommies clothes playing grown up
another criminal who grew some pot, made some stacks, went to uni and talks shit about things they have no real world information about. LOL your education stifled your understanding by building a paradigm up in your own mind about a reality you aren't personally privy too.
Please dave why not save your genius for the appropriate forums, hydro threads are a forum down
Not that your college education prepared you for it but it is a living soil recycled soil thread, other environments don't define what we do here and since definitions and not real world experience define your argument your simply wasting bandwidth.
Go troll elsewhere.
Just so you know the average education on my family is PHd, my brother is ivy league (full schollarship) and was chairman of an organic farm that was using "cutting edge" methodologies to get better results organically than conventionally. As a profession majority of my clients are PHd as well. You ain't no PHd junior, lol trust me on that.
There is a reason most of the dudes cracking books and getting degrees here come off as limited and that is because you guys are shallow enough to think that doing something for decades doesn't give you more information that reading about a subject through someone else's eyes (lens)
Your just another dude with enough limited success to build up an ego and not enough to understand the real scope of this plant's potential, so you make empty arguments to keep that ego inflated.
Money and ego do that to common people, the operative word being common.
your cute dave, in a toddler wearing mommies clothes playing grown up
another criminal who grew some pot, made some stacks, went to uni and talks shit about things they have no real world information about. LOL your education stifled your understanding by building a paradigm up in your own mind about a reality you aren't personally privy too.
Please dave why not save your genius for the appropriate forums, hydro threads are a forum down
Not that your college education prepared you for it but it is a living soil recycled soil thread, other environments don't define what we do here and since definitions and not real world experience define your argument your simply wasting bandwidth.
Go troll elsewhere.
Just so you know the average education on my family is PHd, my brother is ivy league (full schollarship) and was chairman of an organic farm that was using "cutting edge" methodologies to get better results organically than conventionally. As a profession majority of my clients are PHd as well. You ain't no PHd junior, lol trust me on that.
There is a reason most of the dudes cracking books and getting degrees here come off as limited and that is because you guys are shallow enough to think that doing something for decades doesn't give you more information that reading about a subject through someone else's eyes (lens)
Your just another dude with enough limited success to build up an ego and not enough to understand the real scope of this plant's potential, so you make empty arguments to keep that ego inflated.
Money and ego do that to common people, the operative word being common.
Make sense Weird.. That's opinion.. Your doing what I was accused of by Xmobotx. Sticks and stones and all that nonsense...
I do not care for your family's education like you do not mine. If you have a brother in an organic work place perhaps he can help you out Weird with some soil biology to optimise it for a next run based on tissue analysis. rather than saying it's the 'Shizzle' than saying well I dropped the temps.. That happens naturally dude.
I hope for your sake you get your soil mix sorted as that's the method you preach but yet do not fully comprehend it seems..
I wish you luck searching for that 'Goal' 'sativa manner from heaven' when you get there mate gis a shout..
An ounce of prevention and some knowledge to go with it and you would have your 'senesence' Weird.
Now you've found out because I have told you..
I do not care for your family's education like you do not mine. If you have a brother in an organic work place perhaps he can help you out Weird with some soil biology to optimise it for a next run based on tissue analysis. rather than saying it's the 'Shizzle' than saying well I dropped the temps.. That happens naturally dude.
I hope for your sake you get your soil mix sorted as that's the method you preach but yet do not fully comprehend it seems..
I wish you luck searching for that 'Goal' 'sativa manner from heaven' when you get there mate gis a shout..
An ounce of prevention and some knowledge to go with it and you would have your 'senesence' Weird.
Now you've found out because I have told you..
Why not tell us what the benefit to your argument, what till the community gain by your enlightened perception?
Because right now, I see ROLS/LOS eliminating chemical toxins, dangerous microbial and providing sustainability in the same economy of movement.
Indoors or Out.
What benefit is there to your argument Dave, other than hey look at me im so cool and you guys well your doing it wrong?
Umm there is none
and if you think I choose to downgrade my flowers so I can post in a ROLS thread LOL boy how dumb are you, seriously.
I have plenty of examples of amazing plants using all methods of horticulture, I am the real fucking deal, I dedicated my life to the art of smoking flowers, I killed it before I came to ROLS/LOS, why the FUCK would I change my ways unless they offered more benefit than before?
You even question that thought?
like I said, cute, in a juvenile way, would be cute except your an adult.
If ROLS/LOS doesn't make sense to you don't and you have no value too click the link, don't click the link tot he thread.
Because right now, I see ROLS/LOS eliminating chemical toxins, dangerous microbial and providing sustainability in the same economy of movement.
Indoors or Out.
What benefit is there to your argument Dave, other than hey look at me im so cool and you guys well your doing it wrong?
Umm there is none
and if you think I choose to downgrade my flowers so I can post in a ROLS thread LOL boy how dumb are you, seriously.
I have plenty of examples of amazing plants using all methods of horticulture, I am the real fucking deal, I dedicated my life to the art of smoking flowers, I killed it before I came to ROLS/LOS, why the FUCK would I change my ways unless they offered more benefit than before?
You even question that thought?
like I said, cute, in a juvenile way, would be cute except your an adult.
If ROLS/LOS doesn't make sense to you don't and you have no value too click the link, don't click the link tot he thread.
