Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[xmobotx]

having conditions in the pots be good for the worms is a balancing act but the better it is for them the better it will be for the plant. you're right about moisture being a huge factor which is why pulse watering a mulched no-till pot suits itself to worms so well.

there's no need to contain the worms if they're happy, there's no containing them if they're not

 

[Avinash.miles]

ime so far using all large fabric pots as beds (30-100 gallons, some homemade, some store-bought) no worms are able to escape.... i never find them dead on the floor or anywhere else

 

[VortexPower420]

A good meal and a moist home and there not going anywhere.

 

[hup234]

A good meal and a moist home and there not going anywhere.

that's what she said

 

[Avinash.miles]

 

[xmobotx]

believe me you they are fully able to escape. they must be happy if they are not. because they scale a plastic container & can even be found upside down on the inside of the lid.

if they can't escape, they'll eventually run out of air ~cause that's what it would take

 

[exploziv]

Suicide prone emo worms.. haha.

Can you describe how pulse watering in a no till bed should go, xmobotx? Like with details, quantities and timing.. and any pointers you feel necessary?

 

[50YardLine]

ime so far using all large fabric pots as beds (30-100 gallons, some homemade, some store-bought) no worms are able to escape.... i never find them dead on the floor or anywhere else

I do the same. All my worms are in 400 gallon smart pots, atm. With a good layer of hay on top, the worms don't go anywhere. However I keep them happy also.

 

[xmobotx]

i find in hotter weather {where your grow is subject to weather} that i can water 2x/day. Mostly a daily watering is the norm ~w/ an occasional skip day where subject to cooler temps. seems like, starting w/ a proper moisture level {like the routine where you clump some in your hand & see how/if it falls apart} you can use 1 shot glass per gallon of soil as a good starting point {it won;t be too much/it might be enough} i'm spraying w/ the infamous chapin 1949 & the routine is more like moisten the entire surface/repeat if necessary {daily} funny how it doesn't seem like enough but if you're not careful, it can stack up to be too much {cool temps/less thirsty plant} so, i still do the pot-weighing. w/ bigger pots, once moisture level is established it tends to moderate pretty well & the need for weighing pots is lessened. it's still the case we want to watch for signs of excess moisture but most experienced growers get that trip so that this kind of change is just a minor adaptation

key to this is having that mulch layer. barley straw is popular because barley is basically magic. but i'm thinking of trying rice hulls as mulch. what i really like is running dry canna stems through a chipper/shredder for a super-logical mulch. ~we've all considered them a disposal hazard & they are a major asset to this tech.

lacking mulch, occasionally i've had problems when trying to keep the surface moist leads to overwatered conditions

dave coulier discussed pulse watering in his "click here or not" thread {it's where i stole the term} it's a more quantified discussion which is pertinent despite being an alternate tech. more of a 'just don't water all at once' approach where runoff is diminished & a more even moisture provided {since he's talking wet to dry & i'm talking consistently moist it's different but a good consideration nonetheless} it would be the tech for re-moistening a no-till pot which may have dried out between cycles

 

[Mate Dave]

Taking the outside inside is fundamentally fucked up. Why you need worms in pots is beyond me, why you'd need to supplement a potting soil with organics mid grow is beyond me and it's bad horticultural practice..

That would mean that the pot size is not optimal and the CEC is somewhat not ready for the grow.

Letting the pots dry out is causing a turgidity issues with the uptake of nutriment thus effecting the micros in the grow and plant health. Remember field capacity. If your soil is too wet it's made wrong... That's your fault!!!

I understand if you start with a cup of rice and a handful of cotton to make a soil your a fool who don't actually grow organically all you do is mess about with importing nonsense and speculate it's better.. Actually importing anything is seen by organic heads as stupid. They would source much more sensibly.

Plastic pots and bags are inherently non organic. So you can't mix and match as it suits you... Organic is in the ground no more no less. You use some 'organic practise' against the advice of experts and leading organic institutes..

If it was the way forward it would be sold commercially as this is big business. But it's a fools errand so they let fools follow their imagination..

Barley Straw is full of cellulose & lignin or 'sclerenchyma' and as such is detrimental to drawdown on soil fertility. Only a retard would rob his soil like that to feed some useless worms whilst growing cannabis indoors...

Barley Straw is not 'Magic' it's a great Strawberry mulch and it's excellent @ clearing pond scum and algae blooms but for soil fertility it's a retarded move...

An organic gardner should be able to grow 'only plants' and these plants will contribute to the richest soil fertility available. If he/she needs N.P.or K they know how to increase this through cultivation.

No-till isn't as productive as people say. Fundamentally on a fruit farm or something that's perennial then that may be the way to grow with cover cropping/nursecropping, but for annually quick grown plants best practise is to control/suppress the ground cover and ultimately introduce a genetic that outgrows the surrounding flora.

Indoors it's radically different isn't it.

No till works but slowly, it will grow tiny plants until you have been cultivating the soil for maybe 10x years without additional supplementation from outside inorganic sources or imports. And then it's not a no till..

 

[Buddyy]

Matt Dave many of the statements you have written are just plain WRONG. It is obvious you lack knowledge about soil biology. Have you ever grown cannabis using organic living soil, recycled or no till?

Bringing soil from the outside indoors is not fundamentally fucked up.

Barley straw is not detrimental to soil fertility.

Worms are beneficial to soil health, whether they are in the soil outdoors or in a pot indoors they are beneficial. They aerate the soil and help the break down organic matter which makes its components available to plants. A natural fertiliser.

Many of the things you wrote don't even make sense.

 

[Mate Dave]

But also most of it makes sense Buddy. I have a Rols I have been using for many years.. Yes it grows weed but it's substandard yields compared to other methods I use..

I find that some of the nonsense in this thread does not conform to organic standard practice Buddy but you are all entitled to do as you see fit.

I was runner up in the UK Organic growers comp a few years back and I didn't win because of my views towards pots and many practices that I evoke what are not supported by the 'organic society/garden organic'.

But they do implement organic practice. I am very good friends with these folks and I understand their view point as I do yours.. There are many things what I have said that are fact, it's just not wise to use some of them as others state in a short grow...

Please continue to do as you see fit and I shall.. If you do not think what I have said is a reality than that is your opinion your entitled to.. Carry on...

Fundamental..

Worms may be needed in a soil that isn't ready,, but I choose to have a soil ready for growing.. That makes sense to me...

Barley straw is a poor mulch unless your trying to reduce fertility to grow wildflowers...

Bringing outside inside is a poor use of space.. Yes indoor cannabis is top notch but the yields from Hydroponic or Aquaponics is slightly more beneficial and it's fact...

It's horses for courses and your in the wrong race I think..

Your entitled to an opinion even if it's not based on facts..

I have a no till 220 square yard organic plot.. No till chop and drop. But I implement clearings to get the most from my floor space, thus I compost in piles where applicable.. And I mulch and I till areas. It's called soil cultivation...

I also have some beds outside @ home and I have them full of organic produce...

I regard myself as a gardner of organic implementation, I have no documentation that says I am organic..

It's not subjective as to what even consists as certified organic...

I have documentation regarding horticulture, a distinction * for horticulture and soil science Buddy... That's a recognised Qualification in Europe America and Australia..

I'm qualified enough to report on things as I have done through my education and the courses I have passed with full marks as well as being a runner up in the only major recognised organic competition..

Think what you like... But you cannot say I am wrong without elaborating..

Your signature says it all for me...

 

[Weird]

No till is working quite well for many people, if your not one of them, my condolences.

 

[Buddyy]

Matt Dave

My sig is dumb, just like the laws of the country I reside in.

From what I understand using barley as a companion plant is about enzymes.

"Worms may be needed in a soil that isn't ready,, but I choose to have a soil ready for growing.." .....so how do you know when a soil is 'ready'?

"I have documentation regarding horticulture, a distinction * for horticulture and soil science Buddy... That's a recognised Qualification in Europe America and Australia.." wow

"I'm qualified enough to report on things as I have done through my education and the courses I have passed with full marks as well as being a runner up in the only major recognised organic competition.." again like wtf, full marks, wow

I will elaborate as to why your statement about 'bringing the outside indoors is fundamentally fucked', is wrong. Amongst the most important ingredients for a good quality soil is quality compost. When I bring in topsoil or garden compost from outside to use in my indoor ROLS, I am bringing 'outside indoors'. When I bring in comfrey and stinging nettle from my garden and put in in my soil, I am bringing the 'outside indoors'. So WHY is "Taking the outside inside is fundamentally fucked up"?.

 

[Mate Dave]

A soil is ready for growing when you have all the nutriment required for a cycle of growth determined by a soil test. Based on a standard of growing a species that is optimum to plant health and is scientifically proven.

Decisions on what amendments to apply should be based on a soil test. Not speculation. A soil test should include pH, organic matter content, plant-available phosphorus (P), and available potassium (K) at a minimum.


Photosynthesis produced via artificial light is not organic...... Therefore your argument or point of view is invalid.. I'm just saying..


It's great that you use comfrey, nettles and various 'organic implements' but that is not 'organic' when inside.. Hope this helps..


As for no till working "Quite Well" That's just laughable... If I was in need of feeding myself or making money "Quite Well" isn't doing the job that other cultural methods can do so that's my position on this matter.

It's a personal choice I've made from education, it's simple and logical..


Plants roots do not care where N P K is from or how it's made available/soluble, Organic Certification does care where it came from and how it's made and sourced and harvested Etc .

 

[Buddyy]

Matt Dave,

"It's great that you use comfrey, nettles and various 'organic implements' but that is not organic when inside.. Hope this helps.."

So what happens to the nettle/comfrey once it goes indoors to make it 'not organic'? So what is it if it is not organic?
organic |ɔːˈganɪk|
adjective
1 relating to or derived from living matter: organic soils.
• Chemistry relating to or denoting compounds containing carbon (other than simple binary compounds and salts) and chiefly or ultimately of biological origin. Compare with inorganic.
2 (of food or farming methods) produced or involving production without the use of chemical fertilizers, pesticides, or other artificial chemicals. organic farming. organic meat.

 

[Mate Dave]

Make sense and take time to write the stuff you want to say out correctly like I had to to pass my qualifications because it's standard linguistic practice and will help folks follow the Thread Buddy.

Organic is not as simple as items containing carbon. That is false information..


My handle is Mate Dave..

 

[Weird]

Your organic certification doesn't negate the reality of people successfully running no till

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_bias

 

[Weird]

Same government that certified you makes it illegal for you to grow weed, but that is another cognitive bias

cute dave cute

 

[Mate Dave]

Organic practice is bigger than cannabis cultivation. I started as a chef and organic produce is what my main concerns are. Cannabis was just to get better weed than was available @ a better cost.

Cannabis is a great cover crop that pays the bills. In Spain it isn't illegal. Everywhere it's basically illegal to do a big grow bar a few places where export is the limiting factor. But in these places it's legal to grow outside..

What's cute Weird is peoples opinions, Certification isn't from the government it's from an organisation. It's not illegal it's under licence which makes a big difference. Same as America and anywhere Weird but you have to read between the lines..

My 1st step to legal cultivation is a horticultural Qualification next step is to move where it's cheaper to grow...