Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[milkyjoe]

Yes this is the affect of an inorganic like Potash, but I'm trying to reconcile what is assumed happens at the soil level contrasted with its use in foliar.

My basic point is you want organics to be not water soluble. You want the microbes to break them down and chelate the ions with organic acids or aminos as it reduces the amount pf energy the plant needs to convert those elements into plants

You want the soil to act kinda like the stomach pf the plant...digesting and doing part of the work for the plant. Its the energy trade...the plant provides energy to the microbes which, in turn, provide minerals in a form that saves the plant energy. Soluble ions short circuit that relationship

I even believe you can get insolubles into the plant via foliar if you micronize them. Leaf bacteria will make them available in chelated form.

Also why you want mannitol in your kelp...for the chelation.

Albrecht said it in the 40s...not soluble but available.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I even believe you can get insolubles into the plant via foliar if you micronize them. Leaf bacteria will make them available in chelated form.

This is why I mentioned seeking something on the market at that 25 micron size. Who do you think offers the finest powder?

 

[Scrappy4]

My basic point is you want organics to be not water soluble. You want the microbes to break them down and chelate the ions with organic acids or aminos as it reduces the amount pf energy the plant needs to convert those elements into plants

You want the soil to act kinda like the stomach pf the plant...digesting and doing part of the work for the plant. Its the energy trade...the plant provides energy to the microbes which, in turn, provide minerals in a form that saves the plant energy. Soluble ions short circuit that relationship

I even believe you can get insolubles into the plant via foliar if you micronize them. Leaf bacteria will make them available in chelated form.

Also why you want mannitol in your kelp...for the chelation.

Albrecht said it in the 40s...not soluble but available.

I don't know Albrecht from dirt, but I do know the term "soluble" gets thrown around loosely. Many times nutrients can seem soluble but are actually suspended in water and not soluble.

 

[Microbeman]

I don't know Albrecht from dirt, but I do know the term "soluble" gets thrown around loosely. Many times nutrients can seem soluble but are actually suspended in water and not soluble.

I think this is a reasonable explanation and the whole document may be worthy [not necessarily all accurate]. Tells why using coco if growing organically is a bit unwise unless feeding solubles.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/fruit-vegetable/nutrient-cycling-and-fertility/#sources
Sources of plant nutrients in the soil

Plants obtain mineral nutrients through root uptake from the soil solution. Sources of these soluble nutrients in soil include:
Decomposition of plant residues, animal remains, and soil microorganisms
Weathering of soil minerals
Fertilizer applications
Manures, composts, biosolids (sewage sludge), kelp (seaweed), and other organic amendments such as food processing byproducts
N-fixation by legumes
Ground rock products including lime, rock phosphate, and greensand
Inorganic industrial byproducts such as wood ash or coal ash
Atmospheric deposition, such as N and S from acid rain or N-fixation by lightning discharges
Deposition of nutrient-rich sediment from erosion and flooding

Losses of plant nutrients from the soil

Mineral nutrients also can be lost from the soil system and become unavailable for plant uptake. Nutrient losses are not just costly and wasteful, they can be a source of environmental contamination when they reach lakes, rivers, and groundwater. Nutrient losses occur through:
Runoff – loss of dissolved nutrients in water moving across the soil surface
Erosion – loss of nutrients in or attached to soil particles that are removed from fields by wind or water movement
Leaching – loss of dissolved nutrients in water that moves down through the soil to groundwater or out of the field through drain lines
Gaseous losses to the atmosphere – primarily losses of different N forms through volatilization and denitrification (see "Nitrogen cycle")
Crop removal – plant uptake and removal of nutrients from the field in harvested products

Nutrient pools in the soil
In addition to the variety of inputs and outputs, plant nutrients exist in many different forms, or nutrient pools, within the soil (Fig. 1). These pools range from soluble, readily available forms, to weakly bound forms that are in rapid equilibrium with soluble pools, to strongly bound or precipitated forms that are very insoluble and become available only over long time periods. Nutrients in solution can be taken up immediately by plant roots, but they also move with water and can easily leach below the plant root zone or be lost in runoff from farm fields. The "ideal" fertile soil has high nutrient concentrations in the soil solution when crop growth rates are high and a large storage capacity to retain nutrients when crop needs are low or there is no growing crop.

Exchangeable cations (see below) are a short-term storage pool that can rapidly replenish nutrient ions in the soil solution. Soil organic matter releases nutrients slowly as it decomposes, but is an important supply of N, P, S, B, and trace-metal micronutrients. Soil minerals vary from relatively soluble types (chlorides and sulfates) to insoluble forms (feldspars, apatite, mica) that release nutrients through weathering reactions with chemical and biochemical agents such as organic acids. Adsorbed anions, like phosphate and iron oxides bound to clay and organic matter surfaces, are held strongly and released very slowly, but can contribute to the long-term supply of plant-available nutrients.

 

[Capt. Kush]

Does anyone use malt powder? If so, will the sodium it contains be an issue with my LOS?

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I think this is a reasonable explanation and the whole document may be worthy [not necessarily all accurate].

Last paragraph is accurate and too often overlooked.

 

[Granger2]

I use Extra Dark Barley Malt extract powder from the brew store in some of my ACT's. My plants seem to really like the tea with half MO, half Malt. Smells good too. -granger

 

[Capt. Kush]

I use Extra Dark Barley Malt extract powder from the brew store in some of my ACT's. My plants seem to really like the tea with half MO, half Malt. Smells good too. -granger

I bought the hoosier hill farms diastatic malt powder and it has 1.1mg sodium. How much sodium does your powder have?

 

[Mate Dave]

I bought another Worm bin. Seems cannabis waste is very nutritious..

 

[il19z8rn4li1]

I bought another Worm bin. Seems cannabis waste is very nutritious..

nice, absolutely its nutritious.
Think about it, its already in a close nutritional profile
for what your trying to go... more MJ.



Ohio State University did a study
about planting plants in the same location every year
and being sure to compost the prior years crops' waste right back
into the soil for successive plantings to utilize.

I believe they did this with garlic and noted that
planting the garlic in the same spot every year, being sure
to toss down the waste from the previous years crops
resulted in higher quality garlic over the years.


I cant seem to locate that article or study... but maybe someone
else has read that one too...



I have planted my plants in the same spots for the last 3-4 yrs and
I haev noticed no nutrient issues with any of my plants.(veggies)

 

[bigshrimp]

I use Extra Dark Barley Malt extract powder from the brew store in some of my ACT's. My plants seem to really like the tea with half MO, half Malt. Smells good too. -granger

I've used light briess malt extract the same way. Plants were just fine.

 

[Capt. Kush]

I've used light briess malt extract the same way. Plants were just fine.

You don't think it will cause salt build up after years of use? How much sodium does your malt powder have?

 

[Avinash.miles]

speaking of malted barley (which i've been using, sprouted seed teas and ground up in with topcoats)
I've just picked up some malted buckwheat - curious what specifically it can help with, or will add (perhaps when in the plants growth it would be most useful?)
already topcoated and made a quick tea with malted buckwheat mixed with malted barley.

 

[dociron]

speaking of malted barley (which i've been using, sprouted seed teas and ground up in with topcoats)
I've just picked up some malted buckwheat - curious what specifically it can help with, or will add (perhaps when in the plants growth it would be most useful?)
already topcoated and made a quick tea with malted buckwheat mixed with malted barley.

It's useful because of the enzymes and hormones it brings. I use it too, it cuts 7-10 days off my flower time.

 

[Coba]

"it cuts 7-10 days off my flower time."

huh?
Do you mean you can change your light schedule up to 7-10 days earlier than you normally would, or do you mean the enzymes and hormones in malted buckwheat actually makes your plants finish 7-10 faster.
would you elaborate please?

 

[bigshrimp]

You don't think it will cause salt build up after years of use? How much sodium does your malt powder have?

I dont have the packaging anymore, but a google search turned up similar products containing no sodium. It is likely similar to molasses, which some brands contain sodium, some do not. I wouldn't stress about it either way.

 

[dociron]

"it cuts 7-10 days off my flower time."

huh?
Do you mean you can change your light schedule up to 7-10 days earlier than you normally would, or do you mean the enzymes and hormones in malted buckwheat actually makes your plants finish 7-10 faster.
would you elaborate please?

I mean that it cuts 7 to 10 days off your flower cycle,,,, Yes, really!

 

[milkyjoe]

What hormone does malted barley bring?

 

[Weird]

It was or still is in certain AN and EJ products

 

[MJtheIndicator]

What hormone does malted barley bring?

GA3, ABA, IAA

"Microbial GA3 and ABA production, on the other hand, were estimated to occur in negligent amounts."
- PLANT HORMONES IN FUNGI AND BACTERIA FROM MALTING BARLEY