It is because indoor growers grow into containers, instead of the ground. This creates the need for drainage amendments. Now read seaf0urs post.
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...
- Thread starter gaiusmarius
- Start date
It is because indoor growers grow into containers, instead of the ground. This creates the need for drainage amendments. Now read seaf0urs post.
I agree my plants started looking way better after I quit fussing about them to much, I think a big problem is lots of people get a bit to stoned and neurotic about thier plants start poking around. Sometimes you just gotta learn to let them do thier thing and be patient. Not that I have tons of experience but I defiantly noticed my plants getting better the more I left them alone.
Hey guys.
and gal.
so, I was thinking about that whole perlite thing.
or, the aeration amendment thing.
and I think that you are right when you say nature doesn't amend with perlite. also, lava rock doesn't occur naturally wher cannabis is known to live in th wild...
loam is what i would interject with .
the correct ratio of sand silt and clay is what you are looking for if you are trying to replicate nature.
q
and, worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms...
aerations.
and gal.
so, I was thinking about that whole perlite thing.
or, the aeration amendment thing.
and I think that you are right when you say nature doesn't amend with perlite. also, lava rock doesn't occur naturally wher cannabis is known to live in th wild...
loam is what i would interject with .
the correct ratio of sand silt and clay is what you are looking for if you are trying to replicate nature.
q
and, worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms worms...
aerations.
Last edited by a moderator:
You're really overthinking the whole natural thing. Growing in containers is DIFFERENT than growing into the ground. You can use sand and loam but the result will be a much heavier pot than you are used to.
If you are trying to replicate nature all the way down to the soil, you ought to cut out your basement slab and grow into the earth. Now put in some loam and sand.
PS: Depending on when your house was built, you might have 4-6 inches of crushed stone under the slab, I would remove that first
sand silt and clay only represent the inorganic aspect. the 'organic' would be humus and the micro-life that creates it.
so you would need to replicate that also.
so you would need to replicate that also.
Im kinda torn between the natural thing. Break it down completely and its still not natural, no matter what.
Human interjection makes it that way.
Youre still digging a hole into the ground, youre still physically amending soil. And placing a plant into that hole.
No matter what, its not natural.
Human interjection makes it that way.
Youre still digging a hole into the ground, youre still physically amending soil. And placing a plant into that hole.
No matter what, its not natural.
Oh trust me man, I know the results. Im right there with most of you on the issue, but you break it down, its still not natural. Just as close as possible.
il19z8rn4li1
Member
Would you not say the evolution of Man, Planet, and LIFE in general
in order to SURVIVE, ENTERTAIN, or SUSTAIN is a natural process
as a WHOLE???
Would you not agree that, any possible task US HUMANS or ANIMALS or INSECTS or VIRUSES partake in would be a
task related to natural mental/nonmental processes? lol
It has nothing to do with it being "natural" or anything... as it
has mostly to do with just being sustainable and developing
a higher quality product with more distinct characteristics
that WE are in favor of...
Shit... you gotta remember brother,, plants have US as their stewards and they grow and develop aspects that we desire,
in turn evolving the ever changing world of nothingness that consists of all naturalness
-Weird
Im not quite sure as to why you have a bit of a defense, I was not arguing with you whatsoever...
My response was more so in regards to the aeration amendment debate with perlite, etc. However, I guess I should have made that more clear. Was somewhat just thinking out loud without pinpointing anybody or any certain thing.
I think people just take it too far with the whole all natural thing, and boil it down. Plants were here long before we were and grew just fine on their own, in nature. Human interjection with something that came long before them, well is natural, and isnt at the same time.
Im not quite sure as to why you have a bit of a defense, I was not arguing with you whatsoever...
My response was more so in regards to the aeration amendment debate with perlite, etc. However, I guess I should have made that more clear. Was somewhat just thinking out loud without pinpointing anybody or any certain thing.
I think people just take it too far with the whole all natural thing, and boil it down. Plants were here long before we were and grew just fine on their own, in nature. Human interjection with something that came long before them, well is natural, and isnt at the same time.
I wasn't being defensive, my interpretation of natural systems in terms of agriculture is not so philosophical as it is pragmatic.
I recreate the natural system indoors because I find it to be superior in all regards, from effort to results to impact on the world around me. This became apparent to me as I applied various organic methods over time and compared results.
I recreate the natural system indoors because I find it to be superior in all regards, from effort to results to impact on the world around me. This became apparent to me as I applied various organic methods over time and compared results.
I completely agree.
Right there with you.
Right there with you.
I am missing the whole natural point entirely. Artificial light, artificial environment including co2, pots vs earth and not one ounce of actual soil. What am I missing? Am I a complete idiot...what is natural about that at all.
Have we made up something we call natural?
Have we made up something we call natural?
Living soil is the replication of a natural soil ecosystem and based on your comments regarding plant nutrition you SHOULD know this.
What is your agenda Joe?
Beneficial effect of the rhizosphere microbial community for plant growth and health
http://popups.ulg.ac.be/1780-4507/index.php?id=7578
Going back to the roots: the microbial ecology of the rhizosphere
http://www.nature.com/nrmicro/journal/v11/n11/abs/nrmicro3109.html
http://popups.ulg.ac.be/1780-4507/index.php?id=7578
Going back to the roots: the microbial ecology of the rhizosphere
http://www.nature.com/nrmicro/journal/v11/n11/abs/nrmicro3109.html
removing stress is neither natural or un-natural.
but it has everything to do with success or failure.
growing with lights is less natural i think.
cannabis is easily the most and longest cultivated plant ever.
where does canabis NOT grow naturally that supports plant growth?
volcanos are everywhere and "lava" rock can be any type of rock besides just basalt. perlite is "lava" rock lol.
someone pointed out the obvious when they brought up the fact that we are cultivating canabis in containers and we strive to recreate the earth as it is outdoors.
in a small container this earth is very small and creature populations responsible for natural plant functions cycle faster in boom/bust scenarios, so we cultivate the soil micro organisms to be placed into the container thereby bringing a container closer to how it would be in "nature".
once a person starts interacting with an organism in order to benefit from it a whole new paradigm is created beyond what we view as natural or outside mans influence. buds w/o seeds are closer to being un-natural than anything else mentioned. in every other case we are removing stress except in allowing the female to reproduce.
if you want to remove artificial from your grow the first place would be all chelating nutrients.
feeding meals and other organic based amendments and growing outdoors or at least with the suns light is as natural as you can get.
if it has EDT or EDTA it is going to force-feed elements including higher levels of heavy metals to your plants.
it is very hard to kill a plant through organic over feeding.
organics can even naturally ballance ph.
fwiw, general chemistry is the precursor to organic chemistry.
organic chemistry is the mother of chemistry and less is known about it.
if you want to know the new frontier it is microbiology.
peas,
pwf
but it has everything to do with success or failure.
growing with lights is less natural i think.
cannabis is easily the most and longest cultivated plant ever.
where does canabis NOT grow naturally that supports plant growth?
volcanos are everywhere and "lava" rock can be any type of rock besides just basalt. perlite is "lava" rock lol.
someone pointed out the obvious when they brought up the fact that we are cultivating canabis in containers and we strive to recreate the earth as it is outdoors.
in a small container this earth is very small and creature populations responsible for natural plant functions cycle faster in boom/bust scenarios, so we cultivate the soil micro organisms to be placed into the container thereby bringing a container closer to how it would be in "nature".
once a person starts interacting with an organism in order to benefit from it a whole new paradigm is created beyond what we view as natural or outside mans influence. buds w/o seeds are closer to being un-natural than anything else mentioned. in every other case we are removing stress except in allowing the female to reproduce.
if you want to remove artificial from your grow the first place would be all chelating nutrients.
feeding meals and other organic based amendments and growing outdoors or at least with the suns light is as natural as you can get.
if it has EDT or EDTA it is going to force-feed elements including higher levels of heavy metals to your plants.
it is very hard to kill a plant through organic over feeding.
organics can even naturally ballance ph.
fwiw, general chemistry is the precursor to organic chemistry.
organic chemistry is the mother of chemistry and less is known about it.
if you want to know the new frontier it is microbiology.
peas,
pwf
Pendleton
Member
Whole lot of long well-considered opinions but they seem to be a bit much. In small containers we're joking with ourselves about recreating nature. Nature isn't a thing with a capital N and growing cannabis in containers doesn't require an ethos about it to grow organic good herb. This sort of argument has less to do with differences in growing practices and more to do with differences in ideology built up from talking on a forum. Fuck that noise.
That is interesting, before you made a comment like that you have created a living soil indoors and ran it for several generations?
Opinions are one thing, successful experience another.
I think this whole little debate started with the perlite thing.
Somebody said using perlite or aeration additives (lava rock, pumice) isn't natural, so why do some sustainable growers use it.
I replied that growing in containers is the reason to add aeration amendments.
Now a spark has lit a 'natural vs unnatural' philosophical battle, on a grow forum, in an organic living soil thread, that just cannot be won, by either side.
Before I get bashed let me explain my opinion:
To me, the 'natural' we are really talking about is the symbiosis of plants and the rhizosphere organisms. I haven't seen evidence that points that aeration amendments disrupt that.
As well,
Perlite and/or other aeration amendments are a necessity in container growing, ROLS or not. And it does not detract from the purposes of growing 'natural', whatever that means to you.
Somebody said using perlite or aeration additives (lava rock, pumice) isn't natural, so why do some sustainable growers use it.
I replied that growing in containers is the reason to add aeration amendments.
Now a spark has lit a 'natural vs unnatural' philosophical battle, on a grow forum, in an organic living soil thread, that just cannot be won, by either side.
Before I get bashed let me explain my opinion:
To me, the 'natural' we are really talking about is the symbiosis of plants and the rhizosphere organisms. I haven't seen evidence that points that aeration amendments disrupt that.
As well,
Perlite and/or other aeration amendments are a necessity in container growing, ROLS or not. And it does not detract from the purposes of growing 'natural', whatever that means to you.
