-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...
- Thread starter gaiusmarius
- Start date
I got no agenda. Other than if I needed N And S I would use ammonium sulfate I am with you. Quality goes up indoors...not a question in my mind. But it ain't natural...that part is a lie imo. And so what...don't change anything.
What grows on peat bogs though? I have peat from the old days when I was one and done laying in a field. Not shit has germinated in it yet. That ain't natural.
So I actually agree...best method. But not natural at all.
If that makes me a troll in your mind...well who is that on...you or me. Some of you won't even test to see the truth. I'll own troll...will you own coward to see the truth. Just do a simple nitrate test...lets see who is right...or does the truth scare you
Science - the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
milkyjoe, I think it's high time you stop throwing that S word around like you're some kind of scholar that we ain't. A bunch of us are actually out in the field doing this, with photographic evidence to back up our results. I wonder if you have a link with any of your work?
milkyjoe, I think it's high time you stop throwing that S word around like you're some kind of scholar that we ain't. A bunch of us are actually out in the field doing this, with photographic evidence to back up our results. I wonder if you have a link with any of your work?
I re amended my beds with lime for a little more than a year. I stopped using it because I was reading on here from some folks that it's not good for the soil long-term. From what I gathered, the issue is that too much lime will make your soil harden up.
Since I stopped using lime, I STARTED using worms, and my best EDUCATED GUESS would be that the worms would help keep any of that hardening up at bay. Maybe a SCIENTIST can refute this and throw up some studies, as it's just speculation on my part.
Worms in containers is not very studied, and it is a shame. Personally I think the moisture and soil temperature are the two keys that are a somewhat different environment for worms vs plants.
I use fresh castings from the bin on all my plants, and don't sort the worms out. Only once have I had worms living in the soil at the end of my harvest. I have no idea what made that grow different than any other.
Right now, I am reusing my soil for the first time, and having a better crop than previous grows. I am using pro-mix which does have lime (not sure how much they put in, nor how much is left after a grow), and I am using citric acid to neutralize a big part of the alkalinity. My media pH is still higher than my irrigation water (6.4 vs 5.something).
This harvest I am actively trying to keep worms and some arthropods alive in my soil, using spent leaves as mulch, and keeping my soil a bit moister. I won't dig through my mix at the end of this harvest, so I'm not sure I'll know if the worms are living or not.
When you say soil "hardening up", do you mean physically (like compaction) or hardening up with carbonates?
I use fresh castings from the bin on all my plants, and don't sort the worms out. Only once have I had worms living in the soil at the end of my harvest. I have no idea what made that grow different than any other.
Right now, I am reusing my soil for the first time, and having a better crop than previous grows. I am using pro-mix which does have lime (not sure how much they put in, nor how much is left after a grow), and I am using citric acid to neutralize a big part of the alkalinity. My media pH is still higher than my irrigation water (6.4 vs 5.something).
This harvest I am actively trying to keep worms and some arthropods alive in my soil, using spent leaves as mulch, and keeping my soil a bit moister. I won't dig through my mix at the end of this harvest, so I'm not sure I'll know if the worms are living or not.
When you say soil "hardening up", do you mean physically (like compaction) or hardening up with carbonates?
I took it to mean hardening up physically, like it would turn into a cement brick eventually, I believe I remember reading.
FWIW, my tap water pH comes out around 8 or more. I don't have a meter, just one of those tests you drop a few drops into. The results are very green.
I just never apply the tap directly to my plants. My rez for the blumats stays topped off.
FWIW, my tap water pH comes out around 8 or more. I don't have a meter, just one of those tests you drop a few drops into. The results are very green.
I just never apply the tap directly to my plants. My rez for the blumats stays topped off.
my worms grew from casings in the castings
they thrive in the pots from one grow cycle to the next
I see them every time I water and I see there castings being made constantly.
I also feed my containers teas and top dress in plant meals and plant matter.
I look at my containers as if they are fish tanks, and I set them up to be balanced environments in which to raise fish with minimal maintenance while maintaining optimal environmental elements.
I care for living soil and living soil in turn cares for my plants.
If your soil isn't happy enough to support worms, its probably not happy enough to support vigorous growth using organic inputs and microbiology to process them.
Worms won't survive in toxic soil conditions, and that is why I say my worms are my canary in the coal mine.
Now the real liability here is underfeeding, lack of nutrient density which could result in either more work by having to apply teas or diminished quantities.
Most people imhe, are so afraid to experience diminished quantities they guarantee it won't happen by overfeeding (doesn't matter organic, inorganic, hybrid, replicated natural system, you can go overboard with any). Once again imhe this simple facet of greed fucks more growers harder in the ass than just about anything else.
I NEED TO MAXIMIZE MY YIELD BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENS
:: overfeeds furiously
they thrive in the pots from one grow cycle to the next
I see them every time I water and I see there castings being made constantly.
I also feed my containers teas and top dress in plant meals and plant matter.
I look at my containers as if they are fish tanks, and I set them up to be balanced environments in which to raise fish with minimal maintenance while maintaining optimal environmental elements.
I care for living soil and living soil in turn cares for my plants.
If your soil isn't happy enough to support worms, its probably not happy enough to support vigorous growth using organic inputs and microbiology to process them.
Worms won't survive in toxic soil conditions, and that is why I say my worms are my canary in the coal mine.
Now the real liability here is underfeeding, lack of nutrient density which could result in either more work by having to apply teas or diminished quantities.
Most people imhe, are so afraid to experience diminished quantities they guarantee it won't happen by overfeeding (doesn't matter organic, inorganic, hybrid, replicated natural system, you can go overboard with any). Once again imhe this simple facet of greed fucks more growers harder in the ass than just about anything else.
I NEED TO MAXIMIZE MY YIELD BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENS
:: overfeeds furiously
If you posted those pics with cardy no3 meter reading before and after we can talk but you guys are missing the point milky is making
just like we are missing our ph meters
maybe if he posted a pic of his reading and plants the point would be moot
I am not the one spraying shit on my plants because they had too much nitrogen I couldn't measure in hopes I could convert the excess nitrogen to something else.
I grow in such a way the plants feed off their own stores in the end as visually apparent, that is my meter. It is all I need.
I guess if I was growing with too much nutrient I would be worried about it being in my plants as well.
Maybe I should spray something on them to delay maturation so I can squeeze out some extra weight and sell it for a fraction of what I do now all I have to do is add more plants and talk shit all day to catch up to everyone else.
maybe if he posted a pic of his reading and plants the point would be moot
I am not the one spraying shit on my plants because they had too much nitrogen I couldn't measure in hopes I could convert the excess nitrogen to something else.
I grow in such a way the plants feed off their own stores in the end as visually apparent, that is my meter. It is all I need.
I guess if I was growing with too much nutrient I would be worried about it being in my plants as well.
Maybe I should spray something on them to delay maturation so I can squeeze out some extra weight and sell it for a fraction of what I do now all I have to do is add more plants and talk shit all day to catch up to everyone else.
At the risk of looking like I'm riding weird's dick (which I'm sure he wouldn't pass up the opportunity), I'm going to have to agree again.
I still don't understand why someone who uses bottles and meters and bizarre sprays would continue to come in here and insinuate that we're not doing something correctly.
Meters, bottles, labels, etc. are simply not needed. Our proof is in the pictures. If it were ok to do so, you'd also see that the proof is in the smell, flavor, and high.
Good luck bottling what we already have going on in our soil. You're going to need it.
I still don't understand why someone who uses bottles and meters and bizarre sprays would continue to come in here and insinuate that we're not doing something correctly.
Meters, bottles, labels, etc. are simply not needed. Our proof is in the pictures. If it were ok to do so, you'd also see that the proof is in the smell, flavor, and high.
Good luck bottling what we already have going on in our soil. You're going to need it.
This conversation is much better
Lap-
Do you add anything for your pH, i'd bet that it is pH of 8 because of calcium carbonate. Have you been doing anything to lower you pH? Or do you just let the water sit in a reservoir for a while?
Weird-
I definitely don't overfeed. I'm probably one of the few who underfeeds, and then tries to make up for it.
My real question to you (other than your soil mix) is, are those red wigglers or earthworms from the backyard?
Last edited:
humics are a ph buffer
worms make humics
http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~soilecol/Full articles/2006/Effects of humic acids.pdf
worms make humics
http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~soilecol/Full articles/2006/Effects of humic acids.pdf
Some alfalfa tea and neem/kelp tea, as describe in the forums and ewc/compost teas (I no longer use molasses) as well.
I think alfalfa is 1/4 cup per 5 gallons and neem/kelp starts and a 1/2 / 1/4 cup per 5 gallons respectively.
Top dress evolves with my tastes and my needs, this run was a couple tablespoons of oyster shell, fish/fish bone meal and kelp along tsp of frass. Little crab shell later on as an IPM.
I have been doing a alfalfa tea shortly after harvest, need meal tea shortly after I transplant right back into the same container, I top dress meals when I transplant.
If I top dress castings, compost or meals in quantity I mix them with peat to keep it from compacting the top layer of soil, teas of the same avoid compaction as well.
I think alfalfa is 1/4 cup per 5 gallons and neem/kelp starts and a 1/2 / 1/4 cup per 5 gallons respectively.
Top dress evolves with my tastes and my needs, this run was a couple tablespoons of oyster shell, fish/fish bone meal and kelp along tsp of frass. Little crab shell later on as an IPM.
I have been doing a alfalfa tea shortly after harvest, need meal tea shortly after I transplant right back into the same container, I top dress meals when I transplant.
If I top dress castings, compost or meals in quantity I mix them with peat to keep it from compacting the top layer of soil, teas of the same avoid compaction as well.
