Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[heady blunts]

 

[Capt. Kush]

Is sphagnum peat moss the way to go when growing organically? I've been using fox farm OF.

 

[Former Guest]

Peat has a great CEC so it is the preferred medium but ocean forest is peat. There's some debate about the ingredients I think so it's not as desirable as mixing up a recipe like Coots Mix. Much cheaper as well.

 

[Weird]

someone was telling me the fox farms bagged products have unsettling product warnings like this product is known to contain carcinogenics according to the state of California ....

IDK if it applies to all but that isn't what i am looking to accomplish with living soil

 

[Mikell]

That's a bit of a knee jerk reaction. A quick browse on Prop 65 brings up much like this. Your compost is more dangerous than most the products that qualify for labeling.

 

[dank.frank]

I think of the OMRI as being a paid for label society - and not so much as a measure of good organic practice.

The reality is - the only guidelines that matter, from a purely legal standpoint is the NOP - which is what any licensing body like the OMRI has to follow in the first place.

And even then, there are people on these boards who would say things on the NOP list shouldn't be used because for one reason or another...so in my opinion, it really comes down to a matter of choice and what is practical for you to use based on ease of sourcing.



dank.Frank

 

[DrFever]

Can i ask is there any true organic certified MJ growers out there

 

[Weird]

only in locations where it is legally established long enough for that to happen

guess if your real new to the game that wouldn't be apparent

 

[Microbeman]

I think of the OMRI as being a paid for label society - and not so much as a measure of good organic practice.

The reality is - the only guidelines that matter, from a purely legal standpoint is the NOP - which is what any licensing body like the OMRI has to follow in the first place.

And even then, there are people on these boards who would say things on the NOP list shouldn't be used because for one reason or another...so in my opinion, it really comes down to a matter of choice and what is practical for you to use based on ease of sourcing.



dank.Frank

Also, use your eyes to read the label and your mind to be practical. If ingredients are straight forward ordinary words, like 'dirt' 'earthwormcastings' 'fish' 'dried kelp' 'sphagnum peatmoss' etc. and there are no words which are strict chemical formulations and there are no statements like 'our proprietary ingredients or amounts' then you are closer to natural raw inputs.

 

[dank.frank]

I mean, there are probably plenty of us that WOULD fit that criteria and could easily be certified...

But, even if it was fully legal, I doubt I'd personally even bother jumping through the hoops and paying the associated fees just to legally call it what it already is. It's just the government finding another way to makes some more expensive than it should be. Every time society finds a way to reduce the cost of living, they find a way to take from that and get their cut to keep people under thumb and "regulated"...errrr "safe".

I'd probably just go with the terms "chemical free" or "naturally grown" - unfortunately, "organic" from a commercial standpoint is nothing more than a catch phase to charge more money for something...

More often than not - while people are looking to milk the organic revenue stream in agriculture, they make environmentally unsound decisions that cause more large scale detrimental impact than any benefit that could be achieved by supplying the market with organic produce. Mexico is a prime example of that in how they divert water from one region to another for the purpose of producing organic crops while entire ecosystems pay the price.

That's why many on here talk about organics from the perspective of sourcing what you can locally and learning how to utilize what is around you as part of what should be considered proper practice as opposed to simply following a "standard" list of approved items...

It really just depends on what your end goal is. Some people are trying to do their own part to save the world...

Personally, I get all that - but I'm just trying to grow the best possible cannabis that I can - and that doesn't always involve making the most "earth-friendly" choices, although I agree, in theory, it should.



dank.Frank

 

[milkyjoe]

It takes 5 yrs to be certified right? Who amongst us trusts the gov to monitor us 5 yrs for a piece of paper that don't mean shit to start with. I call bullshit on any weed growrr claiming certified...ain't happening anytime soon.

I am not questioning the commitment of some growers. I trust some no question. But certified...you gonna have to show me the certificate

 

[dank.frank]

Milky - that is in a FIELD setting. I'm not sure if that would be necessary if you can show that you've created your own mix from items that are all approved by the NOP to begin with...

It would make logical sense then to say - yes, the media and all it's inputs are approved, so therefore by default...

But, that is not to say the government would recognize that obvious logic.

I know farmers around me have cleared certification in 3 years time - but that was only because of the levels of fertilizer they had been applying over the years. But typically, 3-5 years minimum to get a plot of land "certified" for organic production.



dank.Frank

 

[DrFever]

Here’s the thing: there are a lot of myths out there about organic foods, and a lot of propaganda supporting methods that are rarely understood. It’s like your mother used to say: just because everyone is jumping off a bridge doesn’t mean you should do it, too. Now, before I get yelled at too much

Why do people actually prefer organically grown ???????
or your self ask your self really

family owns a farm in rural Ohio. He was grumbling about how everyone praised the local organic farms for being so environmentally-conscientious, even though they sprayed their crops with pesticides all the time while his family farm got no credit for being pesticide-free (they’re not organic because they use a non-organic herbicide once a year). I didn’t believe him at first, so I looked into it: turns out that there are over 20 chemicals commonly used in the growing and processing of organic crops that are approved by the US Organic Standards. And, shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a damn good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 1. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.

The sad truth is, factory farming is factory farming, whether its organic or conventional. Many large organic farms use pesticides liberally. They’re organic by certification, but you’d never know it if you saw their farming practices. As Michael Pollan, best-selling book author and organic supporter, said in an interview with Organic Gardening,

 

[DrFever]

What makes organic farming different, then? It’s not the use of pesticides, it’s the origin of the pesticides used. Organic pesticides are those that are derived from natural sources and processed lightly if at all before use. This is different than the current pesticides used by conventional agriculture, which are generally synthetic. It has been assumed for years that pesticides that occur naturally (in certain plants, for example) are somehow better for us and the environment than those that have been created by man. As more research is done into their toxicity, however, this simply isn’t true, either. Many natural pesticides have been found to be potential – or serious – health risks.2

Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered “safe” as well as “organic“. However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats 4, and had the potential to kill many species, including humans. Rotenone’s use as a pesticide has already been discontinued in the US as of 2005 due to health concerns***, but shockingly, it’s still poured into our waters every year by fisheries management officials as a piscicide to remove unwanted fish species.

The point I’m driving home here is that just because something is natural doesn’t make it non-toxic or safe. Many bacteria, fungi and plants produce poisons, toxins and chemicals that you definitely wouldn’t want sprayed on your food.

 

[dank.frank]

I grow in organic soil because the end result is a superior cannabis flower. Better terpene profiles and a true, accurate representation of the genetics. It's that simple.

I've had people who have been growing 30+ years doubt me on my methodologies and descriptions of the uniqueness of flavors and highs and in one smoke session are converted and want to relearn everything they thought they knew.

I grow organically because I want to grow the best cannabis possible. Period.



dank.Frank

 

[DrFever]

I grow in organic soil because the end result is a superior cannabis flower. Better terpene profiles and a true, accurate representation of the genetics. It's that simple.

I've had people who have been growing 30+ years doubt me on my methodologies and descriptions of the uniqueness of flavors and highs and in one smoke session are converted and want to relearn everything they thought they knew.

I grow organically because I want to grow the best cannabis possible. Period.



dank.Frank

Yes and No i think there is allot more at play although genetics plays a huge roll, lots of other things do as well Light intensity, spectrum, temp, humidity , nutrients and mediums is another huge factor .. Out door and indoor same strain kinda proves that
Its like saying 2 people grows same strain same soil mixture outdoor one lives near the equator, other lives 50 degree North lat will produce exactly the same THC / terp content
or same people one growing it at sea level , other 8000 feet above same mix its not going to be the same
Sulfur also plays a huge roll in terp production to say organic grown is far more superior,,
is silly give the plant what it needs when it needs and you will have the best possible outcome .. at the end of the day NPK is NPK
one is chelated ready for plant to uptake and use other is in need to be broken down before plant can use it

 

[milkyjoe]

Here’s the thing: there are a lot of myths out there about organic foods, and a lot of propaganda supporting methods that are rarely understood. It’s like your mother used to say: just because everyone is jumping off a bridge doesn’t mean you should do it, too. Now, before I get yelled at too much

Why do people actually prefer organically grown ???????
or your self ask your self really

family owns a farm in rural Ohio. He was grumbling about how everyone praised the local organic farms for being so environmentally-conscientious, even though they sprayed their crops with pesticides all the time while his family farm got no credit for being pesticide-free (they’re not organic because they use a non-organic herbicide once a year). I didn’t believe him at first, so I looked into it: turns out that there are over 20 chemicals commonly used in the growing and processing of organic crops that are approved by the US Organic Standards. And, shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a damn good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 1. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.

The sad truth is, factory farming is factory farming, whether its organic or conventional. Many large organic farms use pesticides liberally. They’re organic by certification, but you’d never know it if you saw their farming practices. As Michael Pollan, best-selling book author and organic supporter, said in an interview with Organic Gardening,

Since you looked into it...what are those 20 chemicals? I prefer minerally dense and no "cides" at all. I don't mind ammonium sulfate...but I don't want a single herbicide ever if I am eating it

Edit...I want Cu and S. They are essential elements for both plants and me. How is that an issue. What I don't want is shit I cannot pronounce

 

[Weird]

If you want to argue against the organic method do it in the hydro forums, this is for discussion of applied living organics.

 

[Former Guest]

I thought that the issue with heavy metals was the chelates used to make it available like EDTA?

 

[DrFever]

What bothers me most, however, is that both sides of the organic debate spend millions in press and advertising to attack each other instead of looking for a resolution. Organic supporters tend to vilify new technologies, while conventional supporters insist that chemicals and massive production monocultures are the only way to go. This simply strikes me as absurd. Synthetic doesn’t necessarily mean bad for the environment. Just look at technological advances in creating biodegradable products; sometimes, we can use our knowledge and intelligence to create things that are both useful, cheap (enough) and ecologically responsible, as crazy as that idea may sound.

I also firmly believe that increasing the chemicals used in agriculture to support insanely over-harvested monocultures will never lead to ecological improvement. In my mind, the ideal future will merge conventional and organic methods, using GMOs and/or other new technologies to reduce pesticide use while increasing the bioavailability of soils, crop yield, nutritional quality and biodiversity in agricultural lands. New technology isn’t the enemy of organic farming; it should be its strongest ally.

As far as I’m concerned, the biggest myth when it comes to organic farming is that you have to choose sides. Guess what? You don’t. You can appreciate the upsides of rotating crops and how GMOs might improve output and nutrition. You, the wise and intelligent consumer, don’t have to buy into either side’s propaganda and polarize to one end or another. You can, instead, be somewhere along the spectrum, and encourage both ends to listen up and work together to improve our global food resources and act sustainably.