Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Used as a PESTICIDE against mites.
Are you saying you're one of "those guys" who would say no to "are you using pesticides?"
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Little-known illness tied to smoking weed on the rise
- Thread starter yortbogey
- Start date
Are you saying you're one of "those guys" who would say no to "are you using pesticides?"
A
acridlab
i def agree with doug, and i see ppl aren't catch n the drift
just because its "organic", does not mean it is safe to be consumed, in any way.
just because its "organic", does not mean it is safe to be consumed, in any way.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Should anyone use benadryl or another anti-histamine and get relief, please post it up here. Very important people understand this is an allergic reaction of some sort.
I'm willing to bet everyone is allergic, some just significantly more so than others.
I'm willing to bet everyone is allergic, some just significantly more so than others.
dddaver.. you're the man... some have written that Malawi cobs, done correctly will make some not in tune with the high vomit.. and one day the MFers will write someone died from it... lets make up another 'sickness'... maybe it can make your dick smaller or twat drier.. bring back the draft and let the assholes find something real to bitch about..
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
When you suffer from this, you'll know how real it is.
When you get pain feeling like fishhooks next to your kidneys, pulling hard toward your belly, you'll know how real it is. People really have no idea how awful the reaction to this stuff is, have to experience it to fully understand.
Suicide starts looking attractive, when the pain and discomfort is at it's highest.
Nothing to do with cannabis though. I'm sure smoking aza contaminated, dried lettuce would produce the same result. Not that I'm willing to test it. I've been poisoned enough lately, thanks.
When you get pain feeling like fishhooks next to your kidneys, pulling hard toward your belly, you'll know how real it is. People really have no idea how awful the reaction to this stuff is, have to experience it to fully understand.
Suicide starts looking attractive, when the pain and discomfort is at it's highest.
Nothing to do with cannabis though. I'm sure smoking aza contaminated, dried lettuce would produce the same result. Not that I'm willing to test it. I've been poisoned enough lately, thanks.
thanks for clearing that up. reefer madness bullshit like myself and others have said.
i dont understand the purpose though. isnt the gov't trying to make money off weed now?
First time I heard about any of this, my first reaction was, to call bull shit. But I personally know one person who is allergic to cannabis/hemp. Just touching hemp rope/fabrics will make her break out in hives, contact with 2nd(even 3rd hand) hand smoke will cause an outbreak of hive. At the time I was thinking that it could be from people having an allergic reaction to their smoke.
The more I hear about this the more I hear that the people where smoking dabs/shatter/wax all concentrated forms derived from a process using a gas to produce the end product. That extraction process will concentrate other compounds that may also be on the plant material into the final product.
I one day saw a young guy (mid 20's) at the doctors office in the last year with all of the symptoms. I couldn't help but listen to the conversation he was having with some one on his phone. He mentioned how he was fine earlier in the day, until after copious amounts of dabs. After which he became very sick.
There is something there to the claims, but they might not be seeing the whole picture so they just slap a generic label on and say its all of the weed or just heavy users. But these people are biased and even after any kind of real scientific testing is done they will continue to cry wolf.
The more I hear about this the more I hear that the people where smoking dabs/shatter/wax all concentrated forms derived from a process using a gas to produce the end product. That extraction process will concentrate other compounds that may also be on the plant material into the final product.
I one day saw a young guy (mid 20's) at the doctors office in the last year with all of the symptoms. I couldn't help but listen to the conversation he was having with some one on his phone. He mentioned how he was fine earlier in the day, until after copious amounts of dabs. After which he became very sick.
There is something there to the claims, but they might not be seeing the whole picture so they just slap a generic label on and say its all of the weed or just heavy users. But these people are biased and even after any kind of real scientific testing is done they will continue to cry wolf.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
That's the most extreme case I've heard of. The majority of the people I've seen who are 'allergic' have been pollen related. The mind is also powerful enough to trigger a hive reaction.
The standard practice is to spray just before flower or the first week of flower. Usually only a light application is required. Depending on the conditions of the grow, very little aza is left over in the harvested product.
Once extracted/concentrated, the levels of aza are enough to trigger the reaction. Some people are also much more sensitive than others. Rest assured small amounts of heavily contaminated cannabis cause just as strong of a reaction as dabs made from lightly contaminated.
Aza also does not seem to break down or pass out of the body quickly, meaning it builds up over time. Smoking a large amount of lightly contaminated cannabis can cause symptoms to arise after a week or so of heavy use.
Many variables at play here...
^^ As someone who knows pesticides and is licensed to apply them, but having not gone into the literature...
HOW would you know this, that it is concentrated aza or aza in any form?? I mention this because most people who have suffered CHS have it from smoking just weed, not dabs.
You really can't just say stuff without knowing. WHY on earth people think they can just do this? Who knows, this is where every dumb lie from "vegan diets are safe+healthy" to "gmos are unsafe", "organic food is healthier than regular food", "vaccines cause autism", "angels in the outfield", "Agw is gonna kill us all in 20 years", etc., etc., People just make shit up and I guess if it sounds good to someone else, who cares, just believe it and roll with it! Perception IS reality, chicks with dicks are the same as chicks born with vaginas!
....
Not saying you want to smoke or ingest any pesticide in whatever amount, but that it is not likely aza. I'd actually look to other pesticides or PGRs as being the culprit before aza, but I wouldn't rule it out without knowing either...
It happens in long term users, who have likely been exposed to aza (and other pesticides as we all have), before. Aza is also very non-toxic, it's probably one of the least toxic pesticides out there, is NOT persistent (as you claimed it was), and breaks down quite rapidly. There are just so many reasons why I could or would rule out aza, until one of those people who suffered this reaction with a particular kind of pot, take that pot and have it tested up and down, and multiple people do this, and we can check and confirm results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azadirachtin
http://ipm.ucanr.edu/TOOLS/PNAI/pnaishow.php?id=8
http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/agphome/documents/Pests_Pesticides/Specs/azadirachtin2006.pdf
There is a lot of info out there on aza and much testing has been done.. I'm not saying it isn't responsible for CHS, or other cannabis allergies, but it is highly unlikely....
CHS is likely a specific allergic response in people who are genetically susceptible. Its also very rare. Many people suffer allergies that are not CHS but are also deleterious - I know quite a few people/users who have allergies and can't be around smoke, or smoke certain strains.
My suspicion is that these are related to terpenes, as they are commonplace in nature, and people possess allergies to them (as well as can develop an allergy over time).
Its great to speculate and all... But we can't go around and say "MONSANTO AND MONSANTO GENETICS AND GMO CANNABIS IS CAUSING CANNABIS HYPEREMESIS SYNDROME!!!"... It's just not a good way to go about things.
ROFL and now that I even typed that, people will (mis)read it and I am sure in a few weeds read people saying that CHS is caused by monsanto.
HOW would you know this, that it is concentrated aza or aza in any form?? I mention this because most people who have suffered CHS have it from smoking just weed, not dabs.
You really can't just say stuff without knowing. WHY on earth people think they can just do this? Who knows, this is where every dumb lie from "vegan diets are safe+healthy" to "gmos are unsafe", "organic food is healthier than regular food", "vaccines cause autism", "angels in the outfield", "Agw is gonna kill us all in 20 years", etc., etc., People just make shit up and I guess if it sounds good to someone else, who cares, just believe it and roll with it! Perception IS reality, chicks with dicks are the same as chicks born with vaginas!
....
Not saying you want to smoke or ingest any pesticide in whatever amount, but that it is not likely aza. I'd actually look to other pesticides or PGRs as being the culprit before aza, but I wouldn't rule it out without knowing either...
It happens in long term users, who have likely been exposed to aza (and other pesticides as we all have), before. Aza is also very non-toxic, it's probably one of the least toxic pesticides out there, is NOT persistent (as you claimed it was), and breaks down quite rapidly. There are just so many reasons why I could or would rule out aza, until one of those people who suffered this reaction with a particular kind of pot, take that pot and have it tested up and down, and multiple people do this, and we can check and confirm results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azadirachtin
http://ipm.ucanr.edu/TOOLS/PNAI/pnaishow.php?id=8
http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/agphome/documents/Pests_Pesticides/Specs/azadirachtin2006.pdf
There is a lot of info out there on aza and much testing has been done.. I'm not saying it isn't responsible for CHS, or other cannabis allergies, but it is highly unlikely....
CHS is likely a specific allergic response in people who are genetically susceptible. Its also very rare. Many people suffer allergies that are not CHS but are also deleterious - I know quite a few people/users who have allergies and can't be around smoke, or smoke certain strains.
My suspicion is that these are related to terpenes, as they are commonplace in nature, and people possess allergies to them (as well as can develop an allergy over time).
Its great to speculate and all... But we can't go around and say "MONSANTO AND MONSANTO GENETICS AND GMO CANNABIS IS CAUSING CANNABIS HYPEREMESIS SYNDROME!!!"... It's just not a good way to go about things.
ROFL and now that I even typed that, people will (mis)read it and I am sure in a few weeds read people saying that CHS is caused by monsanto.
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_tessarecting
ஓ
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/717854
Hops allergy and terpene sensitivity: an occupational disease
I know some guys eat neem to shoot blanks.
Hops allergy and terpene sensitivity: an occupational disease
I know some guys eat neem to shoot blanks.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
It's the f'king aza. I've been dealing with this for 8 years now and have done side by side testing. It's f'king subtle and it took forever to figure this out.
Now get out there and help folks BAN the shit. Thanks.
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_tessarecting
ஓ
Loads of better stuff to use to kill mites that wont exasperate root zone issues like azamax can. Essential oils may cause allergic reactions (especially in higher concentrations) but used in IPM I would think they are too volatile to have any residual leftover on the plant.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Just so you're aware, what you typed here is bullshit. What you've "read" is put out by the makers of aza. What I "Know" is from careful research brought about by a shitload of pain and discomfort. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
It's systemic, since a root drench (or spraying before stretch is over) creates contaminated flowers. It's persistent, lasting much longer than 70+ days on indoor grows. This has been tested with both root drench and also simply sprayed the first week of flower. We're talking low concentrations here, less than 5ml/gal of azamax or azatrol, both times. (I grow super clean, aza is the only change I made both times.)
Neem oil contains between 200 and 2000ppm of azadirachtin, per ounce. In larger concentrations, neem is toxic. Go look it up.
Welll.. There's saying it, and saying you did side by sides, and actually proving it. Correlation does not equal causation, etc., etc. Did you get lab tests for all the cannabis??? So you sprayed aza (wait I see now you said you're drenching) on plants (at what time how many times how much aza during flo), and you gave those buds to people to smoke, and someone had a bad reaction, EXACTLY as CHS?
In large enough concentrations, ANYTHING is toxic of course.
https://www.planetnatural.com/wp-content/uploads/azamax-msds.pdf http://www.kernred.com/kern-agcomm/products/NEEMMAZAL%20T_S.pdf
Check out the MSDS... It doesn't cause vomiting when ingested (lol well that msds is wrong it will cause vomiting, but most pesticides will if ingested... so don't follow msds's lol)... You are to induce vomiting IF ingested according to the msds (swallowed (again all med advice I looked up advises against this).. According to the MSDS, which the label says not to. You are to follow the label in this instance always as it is law! You really need to stop spreading around such information without having any real clue as to whether it is aza or not.
I'm actually gonna contact my state agency and EPA about this... Thats a real fuckup lol. I should see if thats a typical msds since its from planet natural, yeah that should be all standard... Then again you find many conflicting things when it comes to information of all sorts like this, and conflicts with the law. But it is slightly disturbing to me. The AZA label also doesn't state it is systemic or translocatable, which most pesticides will tell you this on a label or in other info or at least imply it, which I'll be honest in shitting on the makers of aza just slightly here with you, that they do not state such on the label and they should be more explicit (since many other pesticides are quite explicit about this), so it's good you brought that up because from what I see that is a more "recent" finding confirmed in the literature.
Aza has very little persistence and rapidly breaks down both in soils and if uptaken within plant tissues.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/026121949500026I
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roman_Pavela/publication
/226596634_Effect_of_azadirachtin_applied_systemically_through_roots_of_plants_on_the_mortality_development_and_fecundity_of_the_cabbage_aphid_Brevicoryne_brassicae/links/5747cce208ae707fe21e43a7.pdf
http://www.bioforest.ca/documents/assets/uploads/files/en/n_mckenzie_et_al_2010.pdf
http://www.bioforest.ca/documents/assets/uploads/files/en/n_mckenzie_et_al_2010.pdf
This one's a really one one but pertains to only foliar treatments
https://www.researchgate.net/profil..._Treatment/links/02e7e51b185d8d9040000000.pdf
Now I know this is just cursory reading and researching at the moment and here's a few more on aza poisoning.. (actual ingestion of aza oil)
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15563650.2010.518148
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841499/
http://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.ed...lly_Modified_Baculoviruses_for_P.pdf#page=197
I would like to see more studies on pesticide residues within cannabis.. I know I do have some studies and info having done some research on this earlier this year in this specific regard, but there is not much actual public data yet for residue... As I am told, such studies are in the process, with state (depending on the state) Agricultural departments currently evaluating pesticides and cannabis, and formulating regulations and restrictions with regard as to how to apply even OMRI pesticides to cannabis (which are currently generally the only pesticides states allow for use on legal cannabis products).
Your concern is notable, but you can't jump the gun here. Aza will concentrate within concentrates and extracted oils, but so will other pesticides. What if it's Bt causing this (again I doubt it)? What if it is a product instead such as Eagle 20 or other fungicide? The point is we don't know. I know you like to think you did a test over many years, thats good, and you've done plenty of academic research (I hope) on the issue, amassing and reading many many scientific articles on aza and other pesticides.... But you can't just run around saying this! I'm not saying drink aza, or that neem oil is safe - I wouldn't tell you to drink any non-registered pesticide made with only essential oils like garlic and lavender either, or have you breathe them in, or get them on your skin or eyes, etc., as per you could have a reaction to the product. Of course, these things ARE meant to kill pests, and so need to be used with caution always, no matter how OMRI, or perceived safe, ANY product is.
We also don't go about banning pesticides like you have called for (particularly without any evidence)... We will restrict their use and purchase by the general public if safety is an issue or is found to be an issue. Again I applaud your caution but you are going about things the wrong way. Any use of a restricted use pesticide requires licensing, paperwork, etc. General use is less restrictive but still requires paperwork if you are working for hire in most states.
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A vegan diet is not only exceptionally unhealthy but medically dangerous, ESPECIALLY for babies and children. Vegans always wind up eating meat, proteins, and fats, otherwise they will wind up in the hospital within 2 or years from a host of medical issues. The guy who runs a vegan science institute is a fraud who puts out fake studies that have gotten people sick and killed and he should be in jail.
Genghis Kush
Active member
False, you don't need to eat animals to attain fat and protein
