Problem here is that Bugbees research is based on 660nm red peaks; he then generalized this as "red light" as if all reds are the same. Which they are not.
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Problem here is that Bugbees research is based on 660nm red peaks; he then generalized this as "red light" as if all reds are the same. Which they are not.
Orange's Greenhouse
Active member
What do you expect? A 4 minute clip necessitates simplification.
Give it a few years and the research topics get more specialized. Red light will be split into more subcatogories, small waveband emitters will be compared to wide band emission etc. Science is slow.
I Care
Well-known member
@ReprobateMind there more heads here if you’re having/seeking-help-with issues with plant health in the middle of flower.
Porky82
Well-known member
This has to be one of the funniest posts I've read in ages.
You should have a look at my plants if ya want to see to much N! They fucking frying in it!
Ca++
Well-known member
Edit: The white pen is a mistake, I can't see in the edit to correct.
The bleaching doesn't seem that complicated. The question is as much about why they make chlorophyll below 600umol, as it is why they stop above it. We know of a few mechanisms employed to slow photosynthesis, and conversely think chlorophyll helps photosynthesis. We feel 1800umol is very bright, and the point where damage starts to occur. Looking at that 1800, if it came from the sun (as expected) then the red fraction would be about 600 (600+600+600=1800) So I surmise, that the plant moves from protection mechanisms (such as pigmentation) to a method of actually reducing the capture equipment.
I don't feel I need to know any more than this. We have cause and effect, and so how to avoid it, and the consequences of letting it run. It's interesting that a few years ago we were working HIDs and knew non of this, but did know to move the light. My team actually thought it was the heat. Today we can pick the lights we need, based on red fraction and our intended illumination. It would be nice to see a graph of that. I expect it would tell us R80 (80% red) is great at 600umol/m2. Than the plot would finish with R40 (40% red) at 1700umol/m2. With the line passing though R60, at around 1200umol/m2. We don't see these R% numbers very often, as they are more relevant when specifying pink lights. Most of our lights are around R60 though, I think.
I will put the coloured pens down now
The bleaching doesn't seem that complicated. The question is as much about why they make chlorophyll below 600umol, as it is why they stop above it. We know of a few mechanisms employed to slow photosynthesis, and conversely think chlorophyll helps photosynthesis. We feel 1800umol is very bright, and the point where damage starts to occur. Looking at that 1800, if it came from the sun (as expected) then the red fraction would be about 600 (600+600+600=1800) So I surmise, that the plant moves from protection mechanisms (such as pigmentation) to a method of actually reducing the capture equipment.
I don't feel I need to know any more than this. We have cause and effect, and so how to avoid it, and the consequences of letting it run. It's interesting that a few years ago we were working HIDs and knew non of this, but did know to move the light. My team actually thought it was the heat. Today we can pick the lights we need, based on red fraction and our intended illumination. It would be nice to see a graph of that. I expect it would tell us R80 (80% red) is great at 600umol/m2. Than the plot would finish with R40 (40% red) at 1700umol/m2. With the line passing though R60, at around 1200umol/m2. We don't see these R% numbers very often, as they are more relevant when specifying pink lights. Most of our lights are around R60 though, I think.
I will put the coloured pens down now
Ca++
Well-known member
A little off topic, but under HID lighting, the buds tend to be 3c warmer than the leaves. Leaves have more cooling mechanisms. When we run LED, we run a warmer room, but don't get that fluid distribution, where the buds are hotter, so get more water/food than the leaf. We warm the room, to ensure the buds get what they needed, but at the same time, the leaves get too much.
This might show in the morphology, where a top bud doesn't increase it's share of the water, though running warmer.
It might also show in a higher number of curling leaves.
It might show in the general stratospheric distribution. Which we see with more uniform bud sizes, and presumably what is on them.
This might show in the morphology, where a top bud doesn't increase it's share of the water, though running warmer.
It might also show in a higher number of curling leaves.
It might show in the general stratospheric distribution. Which we see with more uniform bud sizes, and presumably what is on them.
Im fairly sure that buds being hotter than leaves is not really a Hps thing, that its a general thing in flowering cannabis.
At least in our grow our buds measure a little higher temps than plain leaves. And i think i remember seeing some of those FLIR or infrared pics with same higher temps buds under led.
My guess is that buds will have a slightly higher metabolic rate which means slightly higher temps. And that leaves having more evaporation also means lower temps, no matter what light. Have you seen any studies or evidence for led buds being same temps as leaves?
BerryManilow
Well-known member
LED + Full Spectrum UV + 1600ppm of CO2 in aeroponics.
Headband on the right, The Berry front left, Blue Bands back left.
Blue Bands
The Berry
Headband on the right, The Berry front left, Blue Bands back left.
Blue Bands
The Berry
Ca++
Well-known member
5 mins in, Bugbee talks about buds having less stomata than leaves, and greater density, leading to the temp difference.
He didn't really say anything about the light used, not being LED. However he is talking about over ambient gains for both leaf and bud. Which would be greater with HID than LED. Which is the picture I'm trying to paint. Similar to the other circumstance I mused over here, where the whole plant is actually seeing less stratospheric temperature differentiation. Here is bugbee taking that a step further, with different temps, even at the tops. Essentially we have warmed the whole plant, because the top was too cold. That's not directly true, but helps me relate to the overall higher water consumption, once at the required temperature. Along with distribution differences, that will effect morphology
@Crooked8 has a plant that shows high N in the upper leaves. Perhaps with HID, the top leaves would be cooler, and so not curl. If this stands as a good explanation, then ignoring the issue makes perfect sense.
If you stop feeding the troll they won't have anything to eat. Anyone not contributing positive vibes just block them..
NEM x SOWAHH x NEM. Grown under the 250$ China LED. I think it's dimmed to 700 watts. It's not on max wattage.
NEM x SOWAHH x NEM. Grown under the 250$ China LED. I think it's dimmed to 700 watts. It's not on max wattage.
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PadawanWarrior
Well-known member
Nothing wrong with Chinese lights until your house burns down,
Just kidding. I have a Mars SP 3000 I was given. It grows great buds. I do worry about those connectors though.
Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.Nothing wrong with Chinese lights until your house burns down,
20$
SereneLife Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher W/ Mounting Bracket Fire Safety | eBay
Fire Safety. Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher. Suspension Bracket. Auto Exploded when throwing in the Fire. With Three Bands Criss Crossing for Distribution of Powder for Fire Extinguishing. Alarm Loudness: ?.
www.ebay.com
I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
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PadawanWarrior
Well-known member
Those Fire Balls are cool. I wonder if they've ever went off accidentally. I'm seriously going to consider those.Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.
20$
SereneLife Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher W/ Mounting Bracket Fire Safety | eBay
Fire Safety. Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher. Suspension Bracket. Auto Exploded when throwing in the Fire. With Three Bands Criss Crossing for Distribution of Powder for Fire Extinguishing. Alarm Loudness: ?.www.ebay.com
I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
I used 1 per 4x4 and 2 per 4 x 8. I screwed the basket to the metal poles. The main flower room also has 1 ball on ea wall= Peace of mind
where did u geHaving fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.
20$
SereneLife Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher W/ Mounting Bracket Fire Safety | eBay
Fire Safety. Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher. Suspension Bracket. Auto Exploded when throwing in the Fire. With Three Bands Criss Crossing for Distribution of Powder for Fire Extinguishing. Alarm Loudness: ?.www.ebay.com
I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
where did u get these ?? can't find em on amazon- thanksHaving fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.
20$
SereneLife Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher W/ Mounting Bracket Fire Safety | eBay
Fire Safety. Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher. Suspension Bracket. Auto Exploded when throwing in the Fire. With Three Bands Criss Crossing for Distribution of Powder for Fire Extinguishing. Alarm Loudness: ?.www.ebay.com
I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
Amazon has shipping restrictions. EBAY doesn't have the same rules.
Hiddenjems
Well-known member
I have halon setup in mine. Suffocates the fire and it’s really clean. We use it in race cars and helicopters too.Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.
20$
SereneLife Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher W/ Mounting Bracket Fire Safety | eBay
Fire Safety. Automatic Fire Ball Extinguisher. Suspension Bracket. Auto Exploded when throwing in the Fire. With Three Bands Criss Crossing for Distribution of Powder for Fire Extinguishing. Alarm Loudness: ?.www.ebay.com
I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
mm4n
Well-known member
I am considering a similar solution but with one extinguisher for the entire room.
In Spain I found this one: the 1 kg model should activate automatically at 68ºC (154ºF), while the 3 kg model activates at 79ºC (174ºF).
I've had some scares with light related fires. When the new CMH DE bulbs came out I had 1 explode causing a fire on the pond liner I had on the floor. That was 15 years ago. Since then Fire prevention has been part of my indoor garden. It's risky not to include it. You can do a 10 x 10 room well for 100$.
phunkeeboodah
Active member
everything WAS good until the fall started (dark panels with light veins). now the inverse led colour scheme strikes again
