LED and BUD QUALITY

[Rocket Soul]

everything WAS good until the fall started (dark panels with light veins). now the inverse led colour scheme strikes again



View attachment 19077150

Why are you posting this here? Friendly question cause you dont give much info or ask any questions about it, im sure wed all like to help.
- How to fix this plant?
- How to avoid this the next time?
- comment on leds in general?
- Help with what caused this?

To me this looks completely picture perfect like led lightburn which happens when youre giving too much led light without covering the basic grow conditions (temps/rh/vpd, EC/ph and nutes composition). Look how its worse on top growth, that indicates problem is worse the higher light intensity. Or possibly that the last bit of growth happened in too low nute strength.
Fixing this grow is going to be hard, they usually stay like this once you get here. But maybe you could stop.it from getting worse.
The general basic advice would be increasing temps but its hard to make any promises since the plant looks like its transpiring well (erect leaves). Also not a single petiole showing; theyre very indicative of the plant getting too much light.
Maybe you could provide some more info on the grow or ask for what you need in a more straight forward way. Medium, climate, light, ec ph if hydro-type nutes.

 

[phunkeeboodah]

Why are you posting this here? Friendly question cause you dont give much info or ask any questions about it, im sure wed all like to help.
- How to fix this plant?
- How to avoid this the next time?
- comment on leds in general?
- Help with what caused this?

To me this looks completely picture perfect like led lightburn which happens when youre giving too much led light without covering the basic grow conditions (temps/rh/vpd, EC/ph and nutes composition). Look how its worse on top growth, that indicates problem is worse the higher light intensity. Or possibly that the last bit of growth happened in too low nute strength.
Fixing this grow is going to be hard, they usually stay like this once you get here. But maybe you could stop.it from getting worse.
The general basic advice would be increasing temps but its hard to make any promises since the plant looks like its transpiring well (erect leaves). Also not a single petiole showing; theyre very indicative of the plant getting too much light.
Maybe you could provide some more info on the grow or ask for what you need in a more straight forward way. Medium, climate, light, ec ph if hydro-type nutes.

this happens as soon as fall comes, then i switch to hid and everything is fine. it's still too hot in the grow space for me to use the hid so will probably finish the crop with led. the terps on that tall plant are nice so will hopefully finish ok

in the summer the plants were perfect under the led though, but i grow in a closet and am not about to attempt to science these plants back to perfection, considering there is no clear and universally accepted way to do that other than turn the clock back to summertime (aka plug in the hid)

its a seed run though and there are 8 plants in the tub and i managed to clone all 8. waiting for the smoke test to choose a keeper

 

[Rocket Soul]

this happens as soon as fall comes, then i switch to hid and everything is fine. it's still too hot in the grow space for me to use the hid so will probably finish the crop with led. the terps on that tall plant are nice so will hopefully finish ok

in the summer the plants were perfect under the led though, but i grow in a closet and am not about to attempt to science these plants back to perfection, considering there is no clear and universally accepted way to do that other than turn the clock back to summertime (aka plug in the hid)

its a seed run though and there are 8 plants in the tub and i managed to clone all 8. waiting for the smoke test to choose a keeper

Its a heat thing which youve already figured out. Leds dont have infra red which means less drinking (less nutes absorbed) and slower metabolism (plant cant keep up with the light): both things tend to look the same. You can try to figure this out by VPD and adjusting nute strength upwards (but control the run off EC) during cold season; if the plant drinks 20% slower youd need to adjust nutes 20% upwards. But the best thing would be raising temps a bit, try for +80F once you hit full intensity.
Some tricks: extracting drom the bottom: keeps the heat inside. Or add a little incandescent light to get the IR back. Dont go over board, higher wattage bulbs can stretch out your plants. Or upping the PH to a range were mag is better absorbed.

 

[chiesesganja]

everything WAS good until the fall started (dark panels with light veins). now the inverse led colour scheme strikes again
View attachment 19077150

This is a purple genetic ??

 

[Scfarmer]

As someone who used HPS include CMH for 10+ years then last year switched to LED. I'm going to tell you now that good LEDs piss all over HPS. ( Single ended) Only slight downside is lack of IR which can cause nute issues if you don't adjust your feed a little. Ive had calcium issues in my 800w LED tent.

However the absolute best set up is a central CMH bare bulb reflector with a square LED fitting around it angled back at the center from the edge of your space.
I have 315w agro lamp + 400w of led in my 1.2 and its an absolute beast . What ever plants go in that tent finish faster, taste and smell better and have higher Levels of frosting compared to any other configuration I have tried.
Here is a pic of Mimosa at 4/5 weeks from switch

 

[Scfarmer]

As someone who used HPS include CMH for 10+ years then last year switched to LED. I'm going to tell you now that good LEDs piss all over HPS. ( Single ended) Only slight downside is lack of IR which can cause nute issues if you don't adjust your feed a little. Ive had calcium issues in my 800w LED tent.

However the absolute best set up is a central CMH bare bulb reflector with a square LED fitting around it angled back at the center from the edge of your space.
I have 315w agro lamp + 400w of led in my 1.2 and its an absolute beast . What ever plants go in that tent finish faster, taste and smell better and have higher Levels of frosting compared to any other configuration I have tried.
Here is a pic of Mimosa at 4/5 weeks from switch

This is what my setup looks like

 

[Herbal-Essence]

Only slight downside is lack of IR which can cause nute issues if you don't adjust your feed a little. Ive had calcium issues in my 800w LED tent.

by adjusting the feed you mean just extra calmag ?

 

[Scfarmer]

I am considering a similar solution but with one extinguisher for the entire room.
In Spain I found this one: the 1 kg model should activate automatically at 68ºC (154ºF), while the 3 kg model activates at 79ºC (174ºF).

As someone who has had a full blown fire in their grow and only through my own determination and stupidity did I avoid having to call the fire brigade. Don't fade these things.
The fire was caused by a concentrate joint in a very low humidity environment+ me being so stoned I didn't see it . Hours later I had an inferno.

 

[Scfarmer]

by adjusting the feed you mean just extra calmag ?

What rocket soul said above. I had these very issues after the switch and following his advice it sorted my girls out.
Higher calmag, slightly higher PH. Getting run off PH and EC in check with what the plant was actually using.
Deficiency can be tricky as symptoms may be because of lock out due to other factors vrs not enough supplementation

 

[ReprobateMind]

Is this light burn from LED? It's only the tops of the plant. Besides lowering the intensity with the dimmer, what can I do to stop it? Add epsom salt at 1 teapoon per gallon of water to the next feeding? The plants are in an organic soilless mix.

 

[Ca++]

I feel compelled to join in

600, because 600. That and my 4s oddly refused to work with this shade and cable routing. A few 4s, I even swapped the igniters in. A rare moment of wtf.
120w QBs should be recognisable. 33% bigger than a 1.2 though, it's a 1.4

I don't seem to move the lights up and down now. Much of that work, is covered by the dimmer. The 6 has been moved as high as it will go, and the QBs position is relatable. Or they cast shadows.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I feel compelled to join in
View attachment 19077477
600, because 600. That and my 4s oddly refused to work with this shade and cable routing. A few 4s, I even swapped the igniters in. A rare moment of wtf.
120w QBs should be recognisable. 33% bigger than a 1.2 though, it's a 1.4

I don't seem to move the lights up and down now. Much of that work, is covered by the dimmer. The 6 has been moved as high as it will go, and the QBs position is relatable. Or they cast shadows.

Really good to finally see your setup, Ca, dope shit
But what do you mean '4s'?

 

[Rocket Soul]

What rocket soul said above. I had these very issues after the switch and following his advice it sorted my girls out.
Higher calmag, slightly higher PH. Getting run off PH and EC in check with what the plant was actually using.
Deficiency can be tricky as symptoms may be because of lock out due to other factors vrs not enough supplementation

Me and Scf have a little history, i helped and guided him a bit on his led conversion and mostly he hit the ground running. Good to see you over here, buddy its a lot more fun than riu nowadays.

@ReprobateMind
Yes, led burn. Its hard to fix what has already been burned. Scf answer is good; but id like to add onto it. You likely have to use a bit higher nutes in total. Led plants just drink less in general if you dont play around with the environment (higher temps both for drinking and metabolism, more attention to vpd). If they drink less then the juice must be more concentrated to get the same amount of nutes in total. So you kind of have to strike a balance between pushing climate towards more drinking (which can be complicated) and upping your nute levels; at least a bit more calmag relatively, and likely all a bit higher total EC. But upping nute levels means you have to pay much more attention to salts in your grow medium, check run off everytime. Its so easy to go overboard and be in the land of going between defs and toxicity/lock out. Another thing to pay attention to is if the climate changes towards more transpiry your plant will suddenly drink more of the strong juice and get toxicity. This why i dont rec the organic soil approach to starting out with leds its just so hard to adjust when you cant control all the nutes in the soil.


Or you can go the way of both Ca and Scf and use mixed lighting. Its a very good way. If you dont have space for a full cmh/hps load out you can even try to drop a little incandescent watts for heat and reds. But carefull with wattage as too much and youll get bolting. Look at Grey faders last grow for an example, its a sight worth seeing

Another reason for higher nutes is that with your new led light most people are hoping for improvements, higher intensity and yield should always warrant more nutes. But thats just part of pushing your trow further.

 

[phunkeeboodah]

Its a heat thing which youve already figured out. Leds dont have infra red which means less drinking (less nutes absorbed) and slower metabolism (plant cant keep up with the light): both things tend to look the same. You can try to figure this out by VPD and adjusting nute strength upwards (but control the run off EC) during cold season; if the plant drinks 20% slower youd need to adjust nutes 20% upwards. But the best thing would be raising temps a bit, try for +80F once you hit full intensity.
Some tricks: extracting drom the bottom: keeps the heat inside. Or add a little incandescent light to get the IR back. Dont go over board, higher wattage bulbs can stretch out your plants. Or upping the PH to a range were mag is better absorbed.

the temps have been consistently at or over 30c in daytime, i think it must be the drop in humidity with the start of fall

i use organic slow release ferts mixed in or top dressed on the soil old school style. hid plus simple ingredients equals awesome plants every time sort of thing

This is a purple genetic ??

i don't know, the tall plant and the other two that are showing this leaf colour pattern are joti romulan x hot rod freebies and the rest are joti afghani, which seem to not be affected

 

[Rocket Soul]

the temps have been consistently at or over 30c in daytime, i think it must be the drop in humidity with the start of fall

i use organic slow release ferts mixed in or top dressed on the soil old school style. hid plus simple ingredients equals awesome plants every time sort of thing


i don't know, the tall plant and the other two that are showing this leaf colour pattern are joti romulan x hot rod freebies and the rest are joti afghani, which seem to not be affected

My guess is the slow release nutes. Id urge to consider good quality coco and hydro nutes; with reliable ec/ph measuring; both into pot and run off. Doing it that way its very hard to not to get a hang of it quickly.

 

[ReprobateMind]

Me and Scf have a little history, i helped and guided him a bit on his led conversion and mostly he hit the ground running. Good to see you over here, buddy its a lot more fun than riu nowadays.

@ReprobateMind
Yes, led burn. Its hard to fix what has already been burned. Scf answer is good; but id like to add onto it. You likely have to use a bit higher nutes in total. Led plants just drink less in general if you dont play around with the environment (higher temps both for drinking and metabolism, more attention to vpd). If they drink less then the juice must be more concentrated to get the same amount of nutes in total. So you kind of have to strike a balance between pushing climate towards more drinking (which can be complicated) and upping your nute levels; at least a bit more calmag relatively, and likely all a bit higher total EC. But upping nute levels means you have to pay much more attention to salts in your grow medium, check run off everytime. Its so easy to go overboard and be in the land of going between defs and toxicity/lock out. Another thing to pay attention to is if the climate changes towards more transpiry your plant will suddenly drink more of the strong juice and get toxicity. This why i dont rec the organic soil approach to starting out with leds its just so hard to adjust when you cant control all the nutes in the soil.


Or you can go the way of both Ca and Scf and use mixed lighting. Its a very good way. If you dont have space for a full cmh/hps load out you can even try to drop a little incandescent watts for heat and reds. But carefull with wattage as too much and youll get bolting. Look at Grey faders last grow for an example, its a sight worth seeing

Another reason for higher nutes is that with your new led light most people are hoping for improvements, higher intensity and yield should always warrant more nutes. But thats just part of pushing your trow further.

Thanks. I am using a HLG 350r Diablo so it does have some red spectrum. The canopy is two feet from the light. I'm guessing 60% intensity is too much because that's what I slowly set the dimmer to over six weeks. I'll drop it down to 55 or 50% and see what happens. Can I use Calmag+ from Botanicare in organic soilless medium or will it ruin the microbes?

 

[Ca++]

Really good to finally see your setup, Ca, dope shit
But what do you mean '4s'?

Bit ropey though tbh, hay. All a bit miniature, you might say. Full, but weak. There are 16 in there, which had been grown in a 110x65. I was really slacking for a year or so. Doing more procrastinating than growing. I ended up with plants before system. This is them moving into the 1.4 as it's built.

Later I moved from 16 to 8 (rather than 9) This is a pic from the interlighting thread, where I posted a fair few progress pics of the interlightings effect.

Now I'm down to 4 plants. I have not used such spacing since I grew individual plants in dirt.

They are 25L pots, but again it's slung together, and so the control bucket from a 9L pot system, isn't flooding them very high. I may fix that after this first run. What I really wanted from this, is access to get under them all. For me and equipment. Ropey plants went in again, but it's full now, and looking right enough.

I'm actually quite excited about my tank. I have made myself do an hour each day, as of about 2 weeks ago. Once I'm working though, It's never just an hour. It has it's own cupboard, and is heading toward full automation with internet control. I will get some pics.. I do drop a few when it seems appropriate.

Edit: 4s and 6s are lamp sizes. It might be a local thing. a 4 is a 400

 

[Rocket Soul]

Thanks. I am using a HLG 350r Diablo so it does have some red spectrum. The canopy is two feet from the light. I'm guessing 60% intensity is too much because that's what I slowly set the dimmer to over six weeks. I'll drop it down to 55 or 50% and see what happens. Can I use Calmag+ from Botanicare in organic soilless medium or will it ruin the microbes?

Thats one solution, the most available at the moment. But 60% is about 100w per board, at 24": if my memory dont fail me this is the reced hanging height at 100% giving light levels around 800-900ppfd in a 1m2 tent. That would mean youre getting light burn without pushing your grow hard at all, maybe around 600ppfd. I cant guarantee you since the par map seems to have disappeared from HLG web, but this is what i seem to remember.

I urge you to try out some of the advice in a orderly fashion in your next grows; youve got a hell of a light but only using it at just over half capacity. The best place to start is with vpd and dialing in environment. The whole point of having a great light is to put it to use, and to enjoy better results. Its a very nice feeling to really master your grow and keep on pushing the boundry

 

[Hammerhead]

Another one grown under the cheap LED.

 

[Farmer John]

Another one grown under the cheap LED.
View attachment 19077658

Yours always look super healthy. Im finally about to go all led for one flowering tent so I can dial in everything and get used to it. Veg has been all led for years now but flowering has been all hps and cmh.