LED and BUD QUALITY

[Cerathule]

You could even measure it and do an approx. backward-calculation as lux is lumen projected over an area. Any luxmeter can confirm it adds up. Or just use your eyes. And brain please, too XD

 

[Snipp]

I found them - beautiful cars...

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[budsicles]

BUD quality under low lm lights is not gonna be good

Here's a slurricane under 30w per sq/ft of white leds. Averaging around 1gpw

 

[Snipp]

Beautiful.
Woul be interesting putting it under other lights to see if this has an effect on the way we perceive the trichoms.
Different light can change a picture so much.
Just from that one picture we have yet I cant judge

 

[Snipp]

mfg - manufactures...
Go to any site, philips, osram, youll see the rating, its in LM.

Anyway, a bud that see this bunch of 40lm sprinklers on top of him, is gonna put little umbrellas to defend from them, a bud that see a 2000 inital count sprinkler is gonna take out the big umbrellas, a bud that see 20-30-90K lm sprinkler is gonna take out every protection measure it has to the point genetics allow him.

All weed DNA is hard wired for this effect, some more due to better traits but all have this mechanism.
You just need to find the trigger, like science says the trigger for UVB is in 285 nm,
Do you still claim you can activate it in other NM range ? no, why ?
Why here you claim you can do something that science, not me, say you cant ?
Nonsense.

You cant add the source, you can only count the highest source.
BUD requires light intensity, dont argue this, science said it a long time ago.


Sorry my friend, dont mix brightness with intensity, if i put 100 lamps instead of 1 you will see more brightness in the room but it wont change the intensity of the sources.
You are trying to add sources again, you think that if you got a 40lm diode, putting another one next to it will make it godzilla somehow and turn it into a 80lm monster, no, dont work like that
i mean, it does work like that when your trying to fill a space with photons, but in terms of intensity (protection against a high lm\s source) it dont.
All the bud see is many many 40lm sprinklers, not the combined lm of them.

Of course

 

[snakedope]

Yes.

 

[snakedope]

You could even measure it and do an approx. backward-calculation as lux is lumen projected over an area. Any luxmeter can confirm it adds up. Or just use your eyes. And brain please, too XD

LUX meters see the photons you are creating, LUX as we said is just some of the PAR range of photons
So it will see the total number of photons, i dont understand how this change something ?
Did this measurement change the initial count of the diodes ? of course not.

No matter how you flip it bro, you cant add intensity to a source that is limited to low intensity.
Not by adding another source which is exectly the same.
If you want to increase the lm\s of a source you must up his voltage.

 

[Cerathule]

So it will see the total number of photons, i dont understand how this change something ?

higher lux equates higher lumen (given same distance and spread angle)

 

[snakedope]

All you do is adding photons to the space, not adding the rate of them being produced by each source.
And this is key in the trichome production, the higher the rate, the more the bud is stressed and wanna protect itself from it.

 

[Cerathule]

All you do is adding photons to the space, not adding the rate of them being produced by each source.

So plants do use energy from the source? Or the photons that fall on their leaves, as expressed by either PPFD or lux?

What does it matter if these are produced from either an areal of hundred tiny points or 1 bigger point?
It's irrelevant.
And misleading. No HID is a true point-source either. Most of a HIDs light is diffused by the reflector anyway...

 

[Ca++]

HIDs got more LM per sec right now then any other LED diode on the market today.


All your doing is spreading light, not intensifying it.

LED light is more intense than sodium. The sodium may have a greater total, but it's the one spreading it out over a greater area.

From a different aspect, most of your HID light is reflected before hitting the plant. The plants not getting any sort of benefit that aligns with your point of view.
The LED lit plant, gets most light direct from these more concentrated light sources. You are batting for the wrong team pal.


This is close up of a surface mount LED. It's perhaps 5mm, though we can only see 3.5mm of it. The bit making the light is about 0.1mm2
Lets scale up. If that's was an LM301 it's likely to be driven at 0.4w to make maybe 80lm/w not 40lm/w. That's 8000 per cm2 of emission surface. An arc tube is maybe 10mm diameter? 25,000lm per cm. 17cm long? 425,000lm would come from a 600 if it had the same surface emission as a 301. Making the 301 3 times more intense.

Edit: damn it

 

[Snipp]

So plants do use energy from the source? Or the photons that fall on their leaves, as expressed by either PPFD or lux?

What does it matter if these are produced from either an areal of hundred tiny points or 1 bigger point?
It's irrelevant.
And misleading. No HID is a true point-source either. Most of a HIDs light is diffused by the reflector anyway...

I think he means led do produce photons slower than hid do.

 

[snakedope]

So plants do use energy from the source? Or the photons that fall on their leaves, as expressed by either PPFD or lux?

What does it matter if these are produced from either an areal of hundred tiny points or 1 bigger point?
It's irrelevant.
And misleading. No HID is a true point-source either. Most of a HIDs light is diffused by the reflector anyway...

You are not getting it, no matter how i explain it you still dont get it, i will draw a sketch maybe then you will understand.

It dosent matter if the photons are from 1 source or 1000 sources, thats not the issue, you can do both, as long as both of them as single light sources have high rate of light producing.

HID is only 50% diffused by reflector, but you are straying again from the subject, it dosent matter !
All that matter for the protection of the bud process is the intensity (rate) of the light being produced!

As long as this light is present in the same space like your bud, it will see this high intensity source, and will try to protect from it.

LED light is more intense than sodium. The sodium may have a greater total, but it's the one spreading it out over a greater area.

From a different aspect, most of your HID light is reflected before hitting the plant. The plants not getting any sort of benefit that aligns with your point of view.
The LED lit plant, gets most light direct from these more concentrated light sources. You are batting for the wrong team pal.


This is close up of a surface mount LED. It's perhaps 5mm, though we can only see 3.5mm of it. The bit making the light is about 0.1mm2
Lets scale up. If that's was an LM301 it's likely to be driven at 0.4w to make maybe 80lm/w not 40lm/w. That's 8000 per cm2 of emission surface. An arc tube is maybe 10mm diameter? 25,000lm per cm. 17cm long? 425,000lm would come from a 600 if it had the same surface emission as a 301. Making the 301 3 times more intense.

Edit: damn it

Again with your imagination... bro take a break please
you are talking about shit that dosent exist, only in theory.
Im with you on this subject, LED KICKS HID, ok we get it, i agree, But for now, not when this size unites will come out to market if any, for now, HID and CFL as single light source, out rate the LED.
I will sketch this for Cerathule so you can understand also.

 

[Cerathule]

All that matter for the protection of the bud process is the intensity (rate) of the light being produced!

As long as this light is present in the same space like your bud, it will see this high intensity source, and will try to protect from it.

But plants don't have eyes, they don't perceive light like we do. They grab all light particles via their leaves, which contain compounds that serve as photoreceptors.

Besides, if that would be true you should be able to cite proper scientific evidence that supports your claim.

Cannabinoids are mostly transparent to light. They rather protect from UV - which your HPS light contains 0.

 

[GoatCheese]

And this is key in the trichome production, the higher the rate, the more the bud is stressed and wanna protect itself from it.

Cannabis doesn’t produce resin only to protect itself from intense light, thou i’m sure part of the reason is to prevent dehydration (edit: should have wrote effects. but it also includes dehydration) caused by sunlight, heat but also wind.

You can also make the plant produce more resin when you keep it badly root bound and cause more stress this way. ..you can see this in vegging plants when they are so badly root bound that they start to semi-bloom.

This is a badly root bound plant in veg. I made seeds with this plant in veg light cycle , i’m sure you can spot the seeded calyx:

Many compounds in cannabis actually have antibacterial,antiviral and antifungal properties = to protect the plant from these kinds of environmental factors. These types of compounds wouldn’t exist if resin would only be produced against light stress.

When insects bite holes into the plant’s tissue these “scars” will open a paths to pathogens and so the plant needs to protect itself against these by producing the various compounds that are in cannabis resin.

Part of the defense mechanism of sticky resin, i would think, is so that insects wouldn’t want land on the buds. ..but that’s just me speculating.
Some plants give me skin irritation when my arm brushes a blooming plant, some more than others, and insects/animals could also feel it when they brush against a cannabis plant.

 

[Snipp]

Cannabis doesn’t produce resin only to protect itself from intense light, thou i’m sure part of the reason is to prevent dehydration caused by sunlight, heat but also wind.

You can also make the plant produce more resin when you keep it badly root bound and cause more stress this way. ..you can see this in vegging plants when they are so badly root bound that they start to semi-bloom.

This is a badly root bound plant in veg. I made seeds with this plant in veg light cycle , i’m sure you can spot the seeded calyx:

Many compounds in cannabis actually have antibacterial,antiviral and antifungal properties = to protect the plant from these kinds of environmental factors. These types of compounds wouldn’t exist if resin would only be produced against light stress.

When insects bite holes into the plant’s tissue these “scars” will open a paths to pathogens and so the plant needs to protect itself against these by producing the various compounds that are in cannabis resin.

Part of the defense mechanism of sticky resin, i would think, is so that insects wouldn’t want land on the buds. ..but that’s just me speculating.
Some plants give me skin irritation when my arm brushes a blooming plant, some more than others, and insects/animals could also feel it when they brush against a cannabis plant.

No one really knows why the plant does it, just can speculate. No scientist will say they know exactly why.
How the trichomes grow is mostly genetics.

 

[snakedope]

But plants don't have eyes, they don't perceive light like we do. They grab all light particles via their leaves, which contain compounds that serve as photoreceptors.

Besides, if that would be true you should be able to cite proper scientific evidence that supports your claim.

Cannabinoids are mostly transparent to light. They rather protect from UV - which your HPS light contains 0.

View attachment 18740987

Dont need science to tell me what my exp and eyes can see bro, also science is with me, you cannot add intensity (rate) unless you up the source, wont help you putting many sources as you want if they are rated the same, thats science, no need no one to validate that, known for many many years.
It dosent matter if the plant has eyes or not, trichomes are a defensive measure against HIL, high intensity light, you cannot argue that, so please take a rest.

Your UV claim dosent hold against 50+ years of poor NO UV HPS growing killer bud, sorry, you are wrong, reality is not supporting those claims, maybe it will make it better to a degree, but its not the whole story.

The other debate, about what is the rate threshold you might ask, i think its 2000 at least at source.
You can add anything you might think to this logic, its from my own research, you wont find articles about it, just growers exp over the years.

Cannabis doesn’t produce resin only to protect itself from intense light, thou i’m sure part of the reason is to prevent dehydration caused by sunlight, heat but also wind.

You can also make the plant produce more resin when you keep it badly root bound and cause more stress this way. ..you can see this in vegging plants when they are so badly root bound that they start to semi-bloom.

This is a badly root bound plant in veg. I made seeds with this plant in veg light cycle , i’m sure you can spot the seeded calyx:

Many compounds in cannabis actually have antibacterial,antiviral and antifungal properties = to protect the plant from these kinds of environmental factors. These types of compounds wouldn’t exist if resin would only be produced against light stress.

When insects bite holes into the plant’s tissue these “scars” will open a paths to pathogens and so the plant needs to protect itself against these by producing the various compounds that are in cannabis resin.

Part of the defense mechanism of sticky resin, i would think, is so that insects wouldn’t want land on the buds. ..but that’s just me speculating.
Some plants give me skin irritation when my arm brushes a blooming plant, some more than others, and insects/animals could also feel it when they brush against a cannabis plant.

Sorry, i dont have bugs in my indoor, also you dont, and you still get killer buds.
Bugs are not the reason for this defensive reaction, not from what reality shows, only exist in "scientific papers"
If it was the reason, the whole study of HIL and UV would be useless, Indoor growing without bugs would be useless, clearly this is not the issue.

If you are busy speculating, at least have some foot hold of reality before.
i have 1 plant outside, 1 month old, it is bitten from every angle and guess what... no resin, no flowering.

 

[Cerathule]

So you ignore proper evidence that cannabinoids largely absorb UVB yet claim science is with you? I think you are the only one believing that.

You haven't even read the study in such a short time. You ignore everything that is being brought forth but build your own reality using your fantasy ideas. This is mental.

 

[Snipp]

You can add anything you might think to this logic, its from my own research, you wont find articles about it, just growers exp over the years.

Some call that urban legends .

Ever seen dragons ? Believe me I researched it by myself. Have no proof, but a lot of experience with birds..

 

[Cerathule]

You can add anything you might think to this logic, its from my own research, you wont find articles about it, just growers exp over the years.

it's perfectly fine, this what Prof. Bugbee said, they've been looking into it, but they can't figure it out properly. There seems to be an interwoven causality at large, and yes, why not? Photoreceptors can cause a gene response similar to an immune response or stress from other sources, like salt or drought. So either method could work, and has been shown to work, but not in all cases reproduceably.