LED and BUD QUALITY

[Snipp]

There's still plenty of unexplored processes regarding photosynthesis. On the physics and photons we are much further, but that leads into quantum-theorie and so on.
However both things are as they are and we can only try the find the best interaction between both. Still under investigation. Maybe one day they will find the Stuff that causes glue , who knows?
Science founds out more and more , and we try to make this usable in a practic way.

But deny all facts we allready know ( for example, how we produce light emission technically )is just ignorance.

 

[Cerathule]

In any case, the point of emission doesn't seem important to the plant. Though I can offer a reason it might be. Where constant bombardment at exactly the same angle eventually penetrates. We might need to adjust our idea of what a long time is to see this. Where a cell is already tied up doing something, and so can't pick off the next photon. Leading to greater penetration on a tiny scale. This is just some random thought though. Evidence points towards increasing the angles of attack, to gain something. Hence the bar lights.

You may wanna look into the "Sieve"-effect to understand how leaves can alter their structure to allow a focused light-beam from a point-source better through. This can be understood as a means of photoprotection, to avoid chlorophyll-molecules get damaged by excessive NPQ (heat) when high fluence rates happen locally.

But diffuse light reaches better deeper due to its angles, there a leaf creates less shade. And, is distributed more homogenously within the leaf.

If anything, strong pointy light is bad and inefficient, studies confirm diffuse light results in higher biomass.

 

[snakedope]

CFL= 75
LED=220
The two can't be grouped, except on the retail stand of walmart.
In the EU, you won't be able to buy a flo of any kind next year.
The states are following a similar path. With some types already banned.

The only use of flo's was micro-grows and sidelighting, where other lighting styles were not suited. Generally due to space and heat issues.

Again you talk about the efficacy of the tech itself compared to other lights,
But why cant you see the big picture ? the CFL is no good at producing light like LED, also the HID is no goof at producing lights like LED, LED is the king in making light out of current.
But still, any CFL or HIDs got more LM per sec right now then any other LED diode on the market today.

COBs are not single diodes, so we dont count them as such.

Conclusion: STOP ADDING LM, IT CANT BE DONE.
All your doing is spreading light, not intensifying it.

The topic at hand is BUD quality, not grow quality.
BUD quality under low lm lights is not gonna be good, grow diaries prove this, smoking this stuff proves it, 50 years of lame PAR and spectrum proves it.
Stop beating around the bush looking for sophisticated science talk to only end up not getting to no conclusion.

 

[Cerathule]

Maybe one day they will find the Stuff that causes glue , who knows?

There's a lot of studies actually confirming that rather PGRs may have a huge influence that dwarf the photobiological aspects.

I've yet to see anything factually scientific confirmed regarding @snakedope 's theories and claims.
If a phenomenon really exists, it does so for, presumably, all of us and wouldn't go unnoticed for long.

Alot of people that state "weed isn't what it used to be" forget their own process of ageing gradually takes their own sensitivity away, or need a tolerance break.

 

[Cerathule]

But still, any CFL or HIDs got more LM per sec right now then any other LED diode on the market today.

COBs are not single diodes, so we dont count them as such.

Conclusion: STOP ADDING LM, IT CANT BE DONE.

Yes, it can be done. As such is reality.

But lumens is misleading anyway, talk quanta of photons.

 

[Snipp]

Tell us a bit about this magical glue stuff... maybe we understand what you are talking about ?

 

[snakedope]

Yes, it can be done. As such is reality.

But lumens is misleading anyway, talk quanta of photons.

Quanta of photons dont matter my dear friend to BUD quality
Only the LM per sec.

Show me how you add LM please.
Show me how adding a same intensity source make the intensity go up
This should be funny.

 

[Cerathule]

Only the LM per sec.

Even if that is true, a plant doesn't even perceive "LM" - but *lux*.
But it is irrelevant. Could you cite peer-reviewed articles supporting this statement?

Show me how you add LM please.

1 lumen + 1 lumen = 2 lumen

 

[snakedope]

Even if that is true, a plant doesn't even perceive "LM" - but *lux*.
But it is irrelevant. Could you cite peer-reviewed articles supporting this statement?


1 lumen + 1 lumen = 2 lumen

And here i am trying to be serious with you guys.. whats the point if you dont understand such simple things and need a cite peer-reviewed articles hahaha
i use the word LM because thats how light mfg test and count their light output
No one counts in PPFD.

LM per sec, LED has 40-50LM, CFL 26w has 1500+
who is more intense ?
or you need a peer-reviewed article to know that also ?

 

[Cerathule]

Here you see 252 tiny diodes together in a lamp, the manufacturer added the produced lumen together as 14000 lm.

It's common practice

 

[Snipp]

Who is light mfg test?

 

[Snipp]

Here you see 252 tiny diodes together in a lamp, the manufacturer added the produced lumen together as 14000 lm.
View attachment 18740933
View attachment 18740934
It's common practice

Those even are weak lights, compared to growlights ..

A cob is the same , the chips are only direclty emdedded to the phospherus layer

 

[snakedope]

I know, and its wrong thats all im saying, you cannot do it.
Only the source counts, put as many sources as you want, if they are same 40lm\s then they are a bunch of 40lm\s, not 40lm\s X how much sources, thats just bad science.

Snipp - Light mfg test lamps in LM output, yes, even LED diodes are rated according to their LM output
Its not a secret.

 

[Snipp]

It's a factory? You have a link?

 

[Snipp]

??

 

[Snipp]

We can ask them - german experts... if you trust them...

Photometric Testing of light sources | DEKRA

Safety, quality and performance from light sources and high-tech lighting systems to automotive lighting. Learn more about photometric testing!

www.dekra.com

 

[Snipp]

I know, and its wrong thats all im saying, you cannot do it.
Only the source counts, put as many sources as you want, if they are same 40lm\s then they are a bunch of 40lm\s, not 40lm\s X how much sources, thats just bad science.

Snipp - Light mfg test lamps in LM output, yes, even LED diodes are rated according to their LM output
Its not a secret.

Maybe it is secret - I do not find anything regarding such a company. Do you have references we can see?

 

[Cerathule]

I know, and its wrong thats all im saying, you cannot do it.
Only the source counts, put as many sources as you want, if they are same 40lm\s then they are a bunch of 40lm\s, not 40lm\s X how much sources, thats just bad science.

lol

What do you need science for when obviously experience shows that from the above beamers the 200W model causes more brightness to a dark room than the 50W model? And they all sport the same diode type, just the count of these vary. More = higher lumen.

Photons do overlap to cause higher fluence, brightness etc pp

 

[Snipp]

lol

What do you need science for when obviously experience shows that from the above beamers the 200W model causes more brightness to a dark room than the 50W model? And they all sport the same diode type, just the count of these vary. More = higher lumen.

Photons do overlap to cause higher fluence, brightness etc pp

Psss... maybe this light mfg can tell is something we dont know

 

[snakedope]

mfg - manufactures...
Go to any site, philips, osram, youll see the rating, its in LM.

Anyway, a bud that see this bunch of 40lm sprinklers on top of him, is gonna put little umbrellas to defend from them, a bud that see a 2000 inital count sprinkler is gonna take out the big umbrellas, a bud that see 20-30-90K lm sprinkler is gonna take out every protection measure it has to the point genetics allow him.

All weed DNA is hard wired for this effect, some more due to better traits but all have this mechanism.
You just need to find the trigger, like science says the trigger for UVB is in 285 nm,
Do you still claim you can activate it in other NM range ? no, why ?
Why here you claim you can do something that science, not me, say you cant ?
Nonsense.

You cant add the source, you can only count the highest source.
BUD requires light intensity, dont argue this, science said it a long time ago.

lol

What do you need science for when obviously experience shows that from the above beamers the 200W model causes more brightness to a dark room than the 50W model? And they all sport the same diode type, just the count of these vary. More = higher lumen.

Photons do overlap to cause higher fluence, brightness etc pp

Sorry my friend, dont mix brightness with intensity, if i put 100 lamps instead of 1 you will see more brightness in the room but it wont change the intensity of the sources.
You are trying to add sources again, you think that if you got a 40lm diode, putting another one next to it will make it godzilla somehow and turn it into a 80lm monster, no, dont work like that
i mean, it does work like that when your trying to fill a space with photons, but in terms of intensity (protection against a high lm\s source) it dont.
All the bud see is many many 40lm sprinklers, not the combined lm of them.