It's the Climate, stupid

[Jericho Mile]

Mostly illustrates how ignorant about Science the Western news media are.

One of the things I can't stand is the "Wildfire created its own weather pattern".

It's like saying that people who live on the edge of forests are more vulnerable to Forest Fires.

The ignorance is most evident on Television news media, unless it's a well-researched hour long National Geographic show on long term weather trends.

I was career Forest Service. Forestry Tech…Firefighter. Resigned in 2006. I can talk fire to you all you want. I followed the money clouds for a long time. I am very well versed on the subject.

All over this country. Boots on the ground. Real life. Comfortable in the arms of the Dragon. A sanctioned pyromaniac

I wouldn’t even give a National Geo documentary much credence.

^ Clear Creek Complex…Idaho…2000…finishing up a 3 day burn out operation. Sleep? No. This book documented that season…and the fire situation in the west. Written that year.

 

[unclefishstick]

I was career Forest Service. Forestry Tech…Firefighter. Resigned in 2006. I can talk fire to you all you want. I followed the money clouds for a long time. I am very well versed on the subject.

All over this country. Boots on the ground. Real life. Comfortable in the arms of the Dragon. A sanctioned pyromaniac

I wouldn’t even give a National Geo documentary much credence.

View attachment 18741514

^ Clear Creek Complex…Idaho…2000…finishing up a 3 day burn out operation. Sleep? No. This book documented that season…and the fire situation in the west. Written that year.

aw dude,you can't go bringing real life experience to a silly internet thread!

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

You know Uncle, Hempy was a Utility Forester and was contracted to assess the root causes of tree related utility fires. Basically, a 'fire scientist'... Just lettin' you know for your own consideration, lol.

 

[Jericho Mile]

aw dude,you can't go bringing real life experience to a silly internet thread!

I know.

Did you know that fire is one of life’s elements? A living…breathing thing. A creator.

I’m personally responsible for having burned up thousands upon thousands of acres of forest. 10’s of thousands. The power of playing with fire on a professional level is hard to beat. Then there’s the science.

 

[Microbeman]

I was career Forest Service. Forestry Tech…Firefighter. Resigned in 2006. I can talk fire to you all you want. I followed the money clouds for a long time. I am very well versed on the subject.

All over this country. Boots on the ground. Real life. Comfortable in the arms of the Dragon. A sanctioned pyromaniac

I wouldn’t even give a National Geo documentary much credence.

View attachment 18741514

^ Clear Creek Complex…Idaho…2000…finishing up a 3 day burn out operation. Sleep? No. This book documented that season…and the fire situation in the west. Written that year.

I believe I breathed some of that smoke north of there in the Monashees. Living in the bush, we always got worried when campers and hunters showed up for their wilderness experience. The experts who claim they know how to control a campfire despite the ban were the worst.

 

[Microbeman]

You know Uncle, Hempy was a Utility Forester and was contracted to assess the root causes of tree related utility fires. Basically, a 'fire scientist'... Just lettin' you know for your own consideration, lol.

Hempy on the job

 

[Jericho Mile]

I believe I breathed some of that smoke north of there in the Monashees. Living in the bush, we always got worried when campers and hunters showed up for their wilderness experience. The experts who claim they know how to control a campfire despite the ban were the worst.

I’m no Nationalist. Not a patriot. But the National Forests in the USA are awesome……putting lands aside like that…was a great idea. Managing them is not cheap nor easy.

Dealing with John Q Public…what can you do? It’s their privilege to get out and enjoy the public lands…but yeah…from my perspective…living on the edge of the Gila National Forest (before that I lived within the Cleveland National Forest)….some people are just a threat to the forest’s well being.

See a lot of fire still. The Black Fire this year…the Johnson Fire last year…were big fires. The Johnson Fire went over 100,000 acres and was managed as a “fire use”….the Black Fire went almost 300,000.

…then in June…the monsoons came and put it to bed. That’s a natural cycle. Typically dry lightening starts then…if they get or are allowed to get big…the monsoons put them out.

I think the Black Fire might have been human caused…not sure I ever heard it straight…but no matter…could have just as easy been a dry strike.

The west is dry. Shocking. A big portion of the west is desert or high desert…dry cycles….wet cycles. The north is dry. But the north can get wet…just as fast as…it can get dry.

This season’s and last season’s monsoons have been really good monsoon seasons (south west New Mexico)….everything is green and plush…animals are fat and content…seems wonderfully good to me. A couple months ago some people were panicking about fire and whether we’d get rain. Pretty sure they do it every year…like a cycle

 

[Microbeman]

I'm in a part of Mexico now, where the rains come regular. By June 13 every year, I've been here. The mountains go from desert to forest overnight, like a miracle. There are very few large animals here; a few boars but a shitload of fabulous birds, including ones that migrate from my old home and every kind of butterfly and moth. I miss the north but my bones couldn't push the snow anymore.

 

[Jericho Mile]

I'm in a part of Mexico now, where the rains come regular. By June 13 every year, I've been here. The mountains go from desert to forest overnight, like a miracle. There are very few large animals here; a few boars but a shitload of fabulous birds, including ones that migrate from my old home and every kind of butterfly and moth. I miss the north but my bones couldn't push the snow anymore.

I’ll take Oaxaca…January-April. I’ve never liked the cold. Tropics and deserts…good warm surf…and mountains. Ideally…New Mexico and Mex for me.

Been done with cities for a long time. Done with the people masses in California too. I left all that.

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

Hempy on the job

 

[St. Phatty]

I’m no Nationalist. Not a patriot. But the National Forests in the USA are awesome……putting lands aside like that…was a great idea. Managing them is not cheap nor easy.

Dealing with John Q Public…what can you do? It’s their privilege to get out and enjoy the public lands…but yeah…from my perspective…living on the edge of the Gila National Forest (before that I lived within the Cleveland National Forest)….some people are just a threat to the forest’s well being.


This season’s and last season’s monsoons have been really good monsoon seasons (south west New Mexico)….everything is green and plush…animals are fat and content…seems wonderfully good to me. A couple months ago some people were panicking about fire and whether we’d get rain. Pretty sure they do it every year…like a cycle

What concerns me is when I don't see people adapting and always thinking, "ok the fire-fighters will save us".

I would add a "0" to the fire-fighters' salaries, i.e. multiply by 10.

I think they earn their pay-check as much as any programmer at Google.

The complacence of the local County commissioners, gosh what dufuses.

about 1/4 of our fires start at homeless encampments - in the forest.

They couldn't bring all the homeless folks out of the woods by giving them a county-approved tent city, but, with the right incentives and treating them like human beings, maybe they could get 80% of them moved out of the forests.

That's a 20% reduction in fire starts. That's HUGE !

Since every year one or 2 of those fire starts are within 2 miles of my home, with nothing between them and me but forest, well ...

I'm half-tempted to give the homeless folks maps to the county commissioners' homes ... and some free matches.

The general case of "not-my-job-itis" that I see the bureacrats having ...

WildFire is a Chemistry process, a Weather process, and a human process. I think it will eventually be showing how it feels about our group not-my-job-itis.

 

[h.h.]

If you live on a cliff overlooking the ocean, or if you live in the forest, expect shit to happen. The tourists are a problem as are the homeless as are the folks who live there. If you bring power to your home, you could be the problem. Electricity is fire. While that may not be a scientific explanation, it can be explained by science. While the grunts may be too busy to notice, modern firefighting is lead by science.

 

[Jericho Mile]

What concerns me is when I don't see people adapting and always thinking, "ok the fire-fighters will save us".

I would add a "0" to the fire-fighters' salaries, i.e. multiply by 10.

I think they earn their pay-check as much as any programmer at Google.

The complacence of the local County commissioners, gosh what dufuses.

about 1/4 of our fires start at homeless encampments - in the forest.

They couldn't bring all the homeless folks out of the woods by giving them a county-approved tent city, but, with the right incentives and treating them like human beings, maybe they could get 80% of them moved out of the forests.

That's a 20% reduction in fire starts. That's HUGE !

Since every year one or 2 of those fire starts are within 2 miles of my home, with nothing between them and me but forest, well ...

I'm half-tempted to give the homeless folks maps to the county commissioners' homes ... and some free matches.

The general case of "not-my-job-itis" that I see the bureacrats having ...

WildFire is a Chemistry process, a Weather process, and a human process. I think it will eventually be showing how it feels about our group not-my-job-itis.

I used to live and work on the Cleveland National Forest. My district bumped down on the International Border…so many of our fires were started by migrants (illegal aliens…international travelers…whatever term is PC these days) coming across the border…evading all the law enforcement and trying to stay warm. Escaped campfires.

This has nothing to do with climate change. More of an economic situation.

 

[Jericho Mile]

If you live on a cliff overlooking the ocean, or if you live in the forest, expect shit to happen. The tourists are a problem as are the homeless as are the folks who live there. If you bring power to your home, you could be the problem. Electricity is fire. While that may not be a scientific explanation, it can be explained by science. While the grunts may be too busy to notice, modern firefighting is lead by science.

Fight fire with fire. Big science.

Now attempt to fight fire with fire within the urban interface….where 1000’s of houses are in alignment with topography and a predicted wind event….and there is panic and mayhem amongst an already…scared shitless population of people.

I’ve never seen a scientist on the fire line. I’ve talked to them at academies. They don’t get out much….but they can show you models and talk theory. Mostly it’s for show.

What’s been your experience?

 

[Microbeman]

Fight fire with fire. Big science.

Now attempt to fight fire with fire within the urban interface….where 1000’s of houses are in alignment with topography and a predicted wind event….and there is panic and mayhem amongst an already…scared shitless population of people.

I’ve never seen a scientist on the fire line. I’ve talked to them at academies. They don’t get out much….but they can show you models and talk theory. Mostly it’s for show.

What’s been your experience?

Mine is that I've met scientists on the ground doing work in the forest and in riparian zones. Somewhere in this forum I posted an experiment done by a forest-fungi scientist who proved the mycorrhizal trade between trees through an experiment in the forest. When we constructed bendway weirs in the river, a scientist came out to advise but we also taught him a mathematical equation to calculate the angle of the weirs. When I lodged a complaint about over-logging at our creek headwaters (basin) a scientist came out to see and evaluate.

 

[Jericho Mile]

Mine is that I've met scientists on the ground doing work in the forest and in riparian zones. Somewhere in this forum I posted an experiment done by a forest-fungi scientist who proved the mycorrhizal trade between trees through an experiment in the forest. When we constructed bendway weirs in the river, a scientist came out to advise but we also taught him a mathematical equation to calculate the angle of the weirs. When I lodged a complaint about over-logging at our creek headwaters (basin) a scientist came out to see and evaluate.

I’ve worked with government biologist of all sorts in the field. Butterflies and land regeneration mostly. Before and after prescribed burns…there is a long song and dance. Not like all science is on the same page or even believes the same things. Government employed scientists are…not always…at the top of their fields. You learn this after a while.

The land repairs itself. “Destruction” is part of the process to “Creation” …just how it is

 

[Chi13]

Fires are a natural part of the environment. The indigenous population of Australia used fire as a way of managing and regenerating areas, and much of the flora has actually evolved to cope with, and benefit from fire.

The problem is that we now have 8.5 billion humans on earth all essentially burning stuff (whether coal, oil, wood, or dung) for power or to cook. At the same time deforestation is increasing for an expanded human population. Even those that don't believe the science must see that this is not sustainable. Let's not even start on plastics...

 

[Jericho Mile]

Fires are a natural part of the environment. The indigenous population of Australia used fire as a way of managing and regenerating areas, and much of the flora has actually evolved to cope with, and benefit from fire.

The problem is that we now have 8.5 billion humans on earth all essentially burning stuff (whether coal, oil, wood, or dung) for power or to cook. At the same time deforestation is increasing for an expanded human population. Even those that don't believe the science must see that this is not sustainable. Let's not even start on plastics...

Diet anyone? Not sustainable. Will the forests grow back once everybody in the whole wide world changes their diets? Yes. Will fish in the seas come back after everybody in the whole wide world changes their diets? Yes.

If you really believe in human created climate change/global warming/manbearpig…..there are proactive diets.

 

[unclefishstick]

gave up my cars 10+ years ago and ride a bike most everywhere i go,gave up beef and pork 2+ years ago aside from maybe 5 strips of bacon,palm kernel oil i dunno...wood,very little used....utterly meaningless in a global context,but at least i did something...

 

[Chi13]

gave up my cars 10+ years ago and ride a bike most everywhere i go,gave up beef and pork 2+ years ago aside from maybe 5 strips of bacon,palm kernel oil i dunno...wood,very little used....utterly meaningless in a global context,but at least i did something...

I went completely plant based a few years ago (mainly for health), and mostly stuck with it, although now I do eat fish once a week. Wish I could wean myself off vehicles but need one to drive clients around on occasion. I have reduced my use significantly and walk where I can or ride my bike if it's a less than 10k trip.

Yes, one person doing this is insignificant but the more people who do this, the more likely others will follow.

Jericho Mile, thanks for that info. I knew about the beef, but not the soy. I would think though, that although soy farming leads to deforestation, that it would still be a more efficient use of land than beef? I mean in terms of the amount of food generated for the amount of land required.