is there any substitute for Canna Nutrients that still offers that sweet, full flavour??

[Brother Nature]

Unfortunately it’s not an argument, the people suggesting ash color has nothing to do with quality are experiencing cognitive dissonance.

Flowers that don’t combust well and taste of chlorophyll aren’t enjoyable objectively. It’s not a matter of preference, do you know anyone that prefers to smoke weed that doesn’t burn well and tastes of carbon and chlorophyll?

Peace

Ok buddy, you do you, keep on keeping on. But maybe take some time to look into what causes changes in color in burnt organic material, it doesn’t hurt to actually learn things instead of repeating unproven stoner hypothesis. If you’re going to state something is a scientific fact you need to actually back that up with scientific facts, but you can’t because they don’t exist.

 

[xtsho]

How about some real science on weather or not flushing does anything? This forum logic and bro science needs to stop.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0926669024011348

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Don't bring science into the discussion.

 

[Brother Nature]

Here, I have compiled a list of very recent scientific studies, all of which disprove the bro science stated above, aside from the guy talking about nitrogen accumulation, he’s onto something there..

Google Scholar

scholar.google.co.nz

 

[Sanjuro]

Weed is going to be harsh and bitter with any nutrient line if you over feed your plants and don’t prepare the plant for harvest the right way



I use the term FLUSHING if i want to RINSE nutrients out of the grow medium.

I use the word STARVING when i allow the medium, soil or soil/coco in my case, to slowly run out of nutrients and the plants starts to yellow or fade what ever term you want to use, before i cut them down



When the plant gets STARVED and nutrients arent put into the soil/coco any more it doesn’t mean the medium is going to run out of plant food immediately. The grow medium is a food storage

Usually i start to see signs of more noticeable yellowing on the lower canopy about 10 days after cutting the main NPK food. As the plant starts to yellow out more and a bit faster after maybe 20 days have past since cutting the food, around this time the plant naturally also uses very little food any more because it is nearing the end of it’s blooming cycle and life cycle. (edit. I also flower my plants very ripe, i don't cut them down too early like fairly many seem to do with lots of white pistils still on the buds)

There is very simple test to this. No need to argue over the forum. Grow plants, the same cut, in soil side by side – one plant you feed till the very end with your normal nutrient strength and the other plant you do the 5 week slow starving. I guarantee there is a difference

 

[xtsho]

Why do you want to starve your plant? The plant can take the elements it need to grow through the roots or if that isn't available it will start cannibalizing what's stored in the leaves. Not everything is mobile so you can starve the plant of things it needs to be the most productive.

Also it doesn't get rid of nitrogen in the buds it just moves them from the leaves to the flowers where it's needed. At the same time elements like calcium and most micronutrients the plant needs are immobile and can't move from the leaves to the flowers so you're starving your plant of what it needs to produce the best.

And when the leaves go yellow they are not photosynthesizing. Photosynthesis is what drive plant growth. That's another topic as well.

There is absolutely no benefit to intentionally allowing your leaves to go yellow weeks before harvest.

 

[Sanjuro]

ii used to like canna alot but since mixing my own not really

How much difference did you notice in the smoke. Canna vs your own nute mix? I’ve been thinking of trying cannas bio lines for soil

 

[Sanjuro]

Photosynthesis is what drive plant growth.

The plant is nearing it's END. it ain't driving nowhere. The doctor didn't renew her license anymore cause the old bitch might drop dead behind the wheel any day now. Ha-hah

If you haven't tried starving your plant then why are you arguing with me. Try it first then come back with the lecture. What you wrote about leaves yellowing in the buds is exactly what you want and also the calyxes will fade when the food storage has almost ran out.

Notice how i'm actually telling you what happens during this starving process. I KNOW how it works as i told you already. It seems like you haven't got any personal experience at least that's what i'm getting. You seem to be growing like you want pretty roses and chunky tomatos instead of marijuana. I'd rather smoke my own.

 

[xtsho]

The plant is nearing it's END. it ain't driving nowhere. The doctor didn't renew her license anymore cause the old bitch might drop dead behind the wheel any day now. Ha-hah

If you haven't tried starving your plant then why are you arguing with me. Try it first then come back with the lecture. What you wrote about leaves yellowing in the buds is exactly what you want and also the calyxes will fade when the food storage has almost ran out.

Notice how i'm actually telling you what happens during this starving process. I KNOW how it works as i told you already. It seems like you haven't got any personal experience at least that's what i'm getting. You seem to be growing like you want pretty roses and chunky tomatos instead of marijuana. I'd rather smoke my own.

The flowers are done forming when there is still 20 days left to go? And you mentioned week 5. I have a feeling that you're harvesting based off of some stated amount of weeks for the strain. So 5 weeks + 20 days means you're harvesting at week 8 and most likely harvesting early. Just about everything needs at least ten weeks or more.

 

[Sanjuro]

The flowers are done forming when there is still 20 days left to go?

Yeah. That's what i wrote, right hah-hah

I have a feeling that you're harvesting based off of some stated amount of weeks for the strain. So 5 weeks + 20 days means you're harvesting at week 8 and most likely harvesting early.

Your feeling is wrong. I wrote i harvest them very ripe with most pistils orange and good amount of amber resin.
You come up with strange shit out of what i have been posting. You think and assume too much.

There's no point of continuing this. Try starving your plants or don't it's up to you.

 

[Hiddenjems]

It’s really easy. Run some plants in a recirculating drain to Rez system and watch what nutrient concentration does at the end of a plant’s cycle.

If you run a plant until it’s truly finished, it stops nutrient uptake. No need to starve a plant that has quit eating all on its own.

 

[Brother Nature]

Weed is going to be harsh and bitter with any nutrient line if you over feed your plants and don’t prepare the plant for harvest the right way



I use the term FLUSHING if i want to RINSE nutrients out of the grow medium.

I use the word STARVING when i allow the medium, soil or soil/coco in my case, to slowly run out of nutrients and the plants starts to yellow or fade what ever term you want to use, before i cut them down



When the plant gets STARVED and nutrients arent put into the soil/coco any more it doesn’t mean the medium is going to run out of plant food immediately. The grow medium is a food storage

Usually i start to see signs of more noticeable yellowing on the lower canopy about 10 days after cutting the main NPK food. As the plant starts to yellow out more and a bit faster after maybe 20 days have past since cutting the food, around this time the plant naturally also uses very little food any more because it is nearing the end of it’s blooming cycle and life cycle. (edit. I also flower my plants very ripe, i don't cut them down too early like fairly many seem to do with lots of white pistils still on the buds)

There is very simple test to this. No need to argue over the forum. Grow plants, the same cut, in soil side by side – one plant you feed till the very end with your normal nutrient strength and the other plant you do the 5 week slow starving. I guarantee there is a difference

You can argue all you want mate, the science and the majority of accomplished growers on this very forum show you are wrong.

 

[Brother Nature]

The idea of growing indoors is to replicate nature in a controllable way, nature never starves its plants, so why do you? Threads gone way off topic though so no more from me on this here. The advanced botany section of this forum has some incredible information, you should check it out.

 

[Creeperpark]

Over the past 50 years in horticulture, I have learned that there are no two growers just alike. There are a lot of similarities we share, but everyone finds a personal way to do things. One can't expect everyone to follow a personal rule that's not in others' way of doing things. If one breaks this rule then it's only an argument that can't be proven which is a waste of time. Allow others to make mistakes and learn from the mistakes.

 

[Sanjuro]

You can argue all you want mate, the science and the majority of accomplished growers on this very forum show you are wrong.

Try something yourself for once before talking back.

Have you tried weeks’ worth of starving the plant to make the smokes softer or are you just having an uneducated chat, mate?



Some of you people always go by on what someone else tells you, you don’t KNOW or never tried anything yourselves before someone else pointed those things out to you. Right? That’s you. Alot of talk nothing more.

“..science, majority of accomplished growers”

How accomplished grower are you if you don’t have a personal knowledge about the topic you’re commenting on? Or if you keep asking scientific studies about it because you don’t have personal experience?

If you would have done testing around the topic YOURSELF you wouldn’t need to ask what others think about it.

If you read my posts you’ll see i’m explaining what is happening during starving and how long it takes. You ask scientific studies done by someone else. Think about it.

Try to achieve more accomplishments before taking this any further.

Show some manners. You little boys are always copying information my kind of people come up with, not the other way around. You need someone else to write the scientific papers you read, isn’t not so?

Yes. Lets end this conversation. It’s one sided when it comes to sharing information we know something about. It’s me educating you not the other way around.

 

[Sanjuro]

If you run a plant until it’s truly finished, it stops nutrient uptake. No need to starve a plant that has quit eating all on its own.

You’re getting it wrong.



Yes plants eat less nearing the end. It’s what i wrote earlier. But when the plant is slowing down the nutrient up take it is also slowing down of how much it is using it. so if it was given food till the very end, the plant never started to use the food reserves stored in it’s system before it was cut down.

In the end of the plants flowering cycle (last 2 weeks before harvest) the yellowing is also slowing down meaning it’s not using the reserves in it’s system very fast anymore.

So STARVING plants is not the same thing what you describe. Do a side by side and you’ll notice a difference.



I have spent years testing this in soil and different nutrient mixtures. A decade +. I know how it works.

I don’t need to read scientific studies writen by some 25 year old american pot university internet wannabe that some icmagger found somewhere. i don’t need to know your uneducated pot-forum consensus about it.

If i see improvement in the smoking quality when i’m doing it my way over here, then you should also get better smoking weed at your end. I’m not a hydro grower but plants grown in soil and coco need STARVING before the chop or the smoke is going to be rough based on the plants i have grown myself.



Guys ...Do test grows back home and shut up till you have those test buds in the bowl. How about that? Then you can PM and we’ll have a chat about how it smokes compared to the plant you gave nutrients till the very end.

Have a nice weekend, boys.

 

[Piff Rhys Jones]

aside from the guy talking about nitrogen accumulation, he’s onto something there..

Google Scholar

scholar.google.co.nz

This is a perfect example of the cognitive dissonance you’re being accused of suffering from.

You are arguing with me yet saying I’m right. Reread my posts. Stop focusing on the term flushing and understand the bigger picture. I didn’t ever mention the word flushing.

Making sure the plant has optimal nutrition throughout its cycle is irrelevant to the discussion @xtsho. Why is optimal nutrition the goal? It’s not. Tasty smoking flowers are.

I am still yet to find someone that prefers smoking flower that doesn’t combust well and tastes of charred carbon. Is this a coincidence, or is ash color important? Answer this question in your reply, or why bother replying?

Peace

 

[Piff Rhys Jones]

There is very simple test to this. No need to argue over the forum. Grow plants, the same cut, in soil side by side – one plant you feed till the very end with your normal nutrient strength and the other plant you do the 5 week slow starving. I guarantee there is a difference

Lots of us have been experimenting in the real world to come to our conclusions. We have done side by sides, with controls. And have determined time and time again that ash color and objective enjoyment of burnt flowers is directly related to how the plant is fed, particularly N, based on testing of tissues at all stages of growth and after harvest. The results are simple and clear.

Is this not “science”?

Peace

 

[Sanjuro]

Lots of us have been experimenting in the real world to come to our conclusions. We have done side by sides, with controls. And have determined time and time again that ash color and objective enjoyment of burnt flowers is directly related to how the plant is fed, particularly N, based on testing of tissues at all stages of growth and after harvest. The results are simple and clear.

Is this not “science”?

Peace

And how it starts is that the stuff you grow isn’t as good as some of the bud you smoked somewhere else, so you start to find a solutions and ways to improve the stuff you have to smoke yourself.

This is why i started to make changes, is it the same reason for you, Piff? I just bet it is. hah-hah



Some people on the forums are all about WHO IS RIGHT/WHO IS WRONG...not about HOW CAN WE MAKE OUR BUDS BETTER as it should be.

 

[Piff Rhys Jones]

And how it starts is that the stuff you grow isn’t as good as some of the bud you smoked somewhere else, so you start to find a solutions and ways to improve the stuff you have to smoke yourself.

This is why i started to make changes, is it the same reason for you, Piff? I just bet it is. hah-hah



Some people on the forums are all about WHO IS RIGHT/WHO IS WRONG...not about HOW CAN WE MAKE OUR BUDS BETTER as it should be.

Exactly.

After many years of trial and error in the real world, not arguing on the internet, it was established that everyone preferred to smoke the flowers from plants that had faded the most, and there was a connection with the ash color. These well faded plants combusted to a flakey white ash and tasted great, didn’t need relighting, could be inhaled deeply without any harshness.

Conversely the plants that didn’t fade as a result of being fed more burned worse tasted worse and were not as well received. These results were found consistently over many experiments.

But people on the internet said this wasn’t scientific. So more experiments were done with tissue analysis. The tissues containing less minerals burned cleaner. But still this wasn’t scientific enough because a nutrient company posted a study saying cannabinoids and terps were not affected by ‘flushing’. Which is a completely nonsensical thing to study. What they should have studied is ‘Does nutrition content of cannabis affect the combustability of the dried flower?’

Why do you think the longer cigars are aged, the whiter the ash color? Why do you think black ash is an undesirable trait in cigar quality? Because it does indeed affect the enjoyment of the smoke, regardless of whether or not the plant received optimum nutrition.

Peace

 

[Hiddenjems]

You’re getting it wrong.



Yes plants eat less nearing the end. It’s what i wrote earlier. But when the plant is slowing down the nutrient up take it is also slowing down of how much it is using it. so if it was given food till the very end, the plant never started to use the food reserves stored in it’s system before it was cut down.

In the end of the plants flowering cycle (last 2 weeks before harvest) the yellowing is also slowing down meaning it’s not using the reserves in it’s system very fast anymore.

So STARVING plants is not the same thing what you describe. Do a side by side and you’ll notice a difference.



I have spent years testing this in soil and different nutrient mixtures. A decade +. I know how it works.

I don’t need to read scientific studies writen by some 25 year old american pot university internet wannabe that some icmagger found somewhere. i don’t need to know your uneducated pot-forum consensus about it.

If i see improvement in the smoking quality when i’m doing it my way over here, then you should also get better smoking weed at your end. I’m not a hydro grower but plants grown in soil and coco need STARVING before the chop or the smoke is going to be rough based on the plants i have grown myself.



Guys ...Do test grows back home and shut up till you have those test buds in the bowl. How about that? Then you can PM and we’ll have a chat about how it smokes compared to the plant you gave nutrients till the very end.

Have a nice weekend, boys.

You’re wrong.

I’ve grown a n everything from a single bubble bucket to a full sized facility.

At the end of a plants life it stops nute uptake.

It’s obvious you’ve never finished a plant.