ICMag.com Banned in Australia!

[Mr. Stinky]

id agree hard rain ...
im not sure id equate freedom of speech with owning a gun ,, its quite a different affair .. i dont even care if i cant own a hand held missile launcher ,, but id kinda like to view unregulated discussion from free thinking adults ... thats what really pissing me off ...

actually in the US, they are of equal emphasis. the first and second amendments... is was said by the writers that only the 2nd ensures the other 9... noone is fighting to have missile launchers... and noone is coming to "take" the guns... what they are doing however, is creating impassable barriers to exercising those rights...we dont have a written right to EXERCISE our rights...just to have them. this is the problem, and not just with the 2nd. when u have no 2nd, there is nothing to stop the loss of the others...

 

[PhenoMenal]

its weird that some people are relating this internet filter to the right to bear arms ...
The right to bear arms is very much an American thing - owning your own gun seems to be important to many Americans, but in Australia it's more important that people don't own guns, and the vast majority of Aussies support that. I certainly have no want, need or desire to own a gun of any description. Obviously farmers etc need guns, and the law provides for them, but they're pretty much the only ones who really need guns.

 

[Cabri]

Hear Here!

Hear Here!

Right on Hardrain and Pheno menal. Im standing solid with you on this. Sick of rants about how Australia is taken over now that guns were boughtback.
Good On you Americans raving about your so called freedoms that you will fight to the death to save. Reality is on the streets of your towns and cities is Death.
This is nothing to do with loving one another and living in freedom and democracy.
Highest murder rates and imprisonment rates in the Civilized world.Stop preaching and do some real researching. You have dropped the ball in the last 8 years on Freedom and now you are dying for it.

 

[Mr. Stinky]

my right to keep and bear arms has absolutely nothing to do with the thugs in gangs who kill their peers. bad people do bad things whether they have a gun or not. this is a fact that you simply cannot deny. taking guns to stop crime is exactly the same as taking forks to stop obesity. fat people eat...bad people kill...trying to take their tool does not make the fat girl skinny, and it sure as hell doesnt make a killer a saint. you fellas can do whatever you want over there. if you dont want a gun, thats fine, and i support your decision... i, however, enjoy my guns as well as my many other hobbies (including eating with a fork) and expect you to support my decision in return. i am a good person, not a killer. the day may come when i need to use my gun in defense of my family or others, possibly even you... why would any sensible human being want to deny me of that protection? because you are very misguided in your beliefs is the only sensible answer. wanna stop some crime? get rid of the bad guys... pretty simple ain't it? and as a last note, the fact remains that the majority of gun crimes are commited with stolen and blackmarket weapons. these guns are already illegal...criminals will not suddenly decide to follow your laws when u make this new one. they dont follow any of them....you are missing a crutial part of your head filling if you think outlawing guns will change these folks... the ONLY outcome of a law banning guns is to take guns from law abiding citizens...the ones who wouldnt use them to commit crime to begin with. you disarm the good folks, allowing far easier access for criminals who dont follow laws... englands violent crime rates bear this out as fact every day. if everyone carried, and knew how to use it, there would be no crime. if the goal is stopping or lessening murder, rape, and violent crime, give every single person a gun, and show them how to use it. think about that for a minute

it has alot to do with the subject of censorship...also, i didnt bring it up.

 

[guest3589]

Mr. Stinky makes a good point when he points out that if Australians majority does not want fire arms then they have that right. I don't quite understand how America is out of line for letting it's citizens have firearms when the majority of Americans seem to support the second amendment.

Firearms in America are a big part of our culture, many fathers begin the long lessons of responsibility with their children via firearms training. Every year I fill my freezer with wild game meat that I hunt in the rugged back country. Should I be denied the right to eat food that is free of corporate tainting via hormones, antibiotics and who knows what else? In the eyes of my fellow Americans I should have that right, even if there are people who would abuse that right exist, it should not supersede my own right.

Think of it like this, if you drink a pint of whiskey and then proceed to mow down pedestrians should the cars then be removed from the road? The simple answer is, if the people vote that the cars should be removed then yes, if not then, no.

The people have spoken, I greatly respect Australians for making a sacrifice to enhance the general safety of their fellow citizens and I also have understanding for the American view that even with the problem of gun violence we still prefer to have the right.

In my view both of these situations have merits as well as detrimental aspects.

I'm still a little unclear why the gun topic is even getting brought up at all.

 

[SouthernGuerila]

seems I have read the ass end of this thread just in time!

Thomas Jefferson -

Jefferson’s commitment to liberty extended to many areas of individual freedom. In his "Commonplace Book," he copied a passage from Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria related to the issue of gun control. The quote reads, "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

 

[PhenoMenal]

and Thomas Jefferson has every right to be pro-guns in a democratic society that promotes freedom of speech. Just as we in Australia have the same right to be anti-guns for the same reasons. You guys can keep your guns.

 

[hard rain]

Mr stinky, homicide rates in the US involving firearms are higher than both Australia and England. Sorry for quoting wiki..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

Expertsetup, Australians who want to hunt still can. They must be registered and certain guns are not permitted. Farmers can own guns, as can security guards and legitimate target shooters. The rest of our population has no need for a gun. And most of us like it that way.

SouthernGuerila, Thanks but the Jefferson quote is irrelevant to Australia. We have a completely different history and culture (or at least we used to). You have only read the 'ass end of the thread'. The thread is about Australian internet censorship.

 

[rekiz]

The thread is about Australian internet censorship.

NP with Optus as yet

 

[rekiz]

decided to install the firefox proxy now before this became an issue. I suppose im a big fan of preventing rather than curing in this case I guess they the same thing

 

[basilfarmer]

sorry to support the drift off topic but responsible gun ownership is no more a problem than responsible car operation (by the way people should stop driving like arsholes & putting other's lives at risk)

guns are a very valuable tool for self defense against human predators; who, by the way, do not follow gun laws

the whole 'disarmed populace' concept just doesn't work; well wait, i take that back, it works great for the predators. they have the run of the place. whether highway robbery, rape or home invasion

I mean you can call the police, and they will come, and take pictures of your dead body.

 

[PhenoMenal]

Anyway now that the Americans have had enough time to hijack this thread with pro-gun hoopla can we get back on topic ???

One of the easiest options to get around the filter is to simply use the XB browser (was "TorPark"), which uses the Tor and XeroBank anonymity networks. It's transparent to the user - it's basically just like using a normal browser, but with your connections being routed via a proxy rather than direct browser-to-site communictations. You can use it for free, or you can optionally upgrade to the faster-bandwidth network, but unless you're downloading a lot with it (torrents, videos etc) then there'd be no point. The free version is all that's needed to comfortably handle normal websites such as icmag.
See http://xerobank.com/download/

 

[basilfarmer]

i'm Canadian actually, and have seen the failure of gun control in living colors since criminals aren't abiding by the gun laws, fancy that

but yes, i think you should have your thread back... peace

 

[moonunit]

Wow i cant believe guns are now the focal point of this thread, everyone needs to step off and agree to disagree on the gun thing and move on, this isnt the place for it, im sure there are a billion and one threads on it elsewhere.
Nice proxy info pheno, jap/jondo will get u here aswell, although not quite as secure as tor ect, it runs quite fast on the dresden server. I think the positive of this is that it forces all aussie surfers of this site to be safer, and use proxies. We will all still be here, and in a more secure fashion as a whole. They didnt kill us, just made us stronger
Much respect
Moonunit

 

[TrippingBalls]

I agree Skip, the new government is just as conservative. But mind you, it's an australian tradition to get shitfaced drunk, bash your best mate & throw up on his girlfriend - oh what a good time had by all!

 

[Cabri]

Thank Gawd

Thank Gawd

Proxy this and that cool. Now Guns and Americans. Thankfully theres always two sides to the story and the Republicans with there big Guns and Big talking tough guys that wanna blow up and kill everything in their idealogical world. Reality slap, only half of them think that way so theres 160 million left of them with half a brain left.
Imagine being an american working for a living in a "Gun Factory" trying to justify you existence on the IM protecting America theory.
Truth is your work your beliefs are whats Killing Everyday in America.

I`d like to see you without the gun to see what really hides behind a gun to be a man. You want a gun? then you are nothing but a Pig to me. yeah a Pig.
Hide behind your gun then you are nothing but a pig.

 

[vinevamp]

Thru no fault of my own, meerly an accident of birth, I am an American. I do not own a gun, have never shot a gun, don't know anyone personally who owns a gun, have no interest in owning shooting fondling or thinking bout guns. Never had any one pull one on me, never seen a crime being committed with a gun tho I know it happens......just must be my sheltered life. On the other hand, know alot about cannabis, plants, and stereotyping.

 

[guest3589]

To bad about this crap, it's a shame to see this revert to name calling nationalist stink shit.

Oh yean man, we got it going on, were so much better over here where we crack the eggs down the middle, everyone can go fluck floff if they crack their eggs at the top.

How pathetic.

 

[basilfarmer]

You want a gun? then you are nothing but a Pig to me. yeah a Pig.
Hide behind your gun then you are nothing but a pig.

ouch.. such hatred of steel tubes that are neither inherently good or evil

republicans on the other hand, they suck lol

*I guess the reason for guns being mixed into this thread is because the two things really do have something deeply in common.

1) Self defense is a basic human right - denied to people by the Australian gov.

2) Freedom to access information is a basic human right - now also denied to people by the Australian gov.

There are more guns in canada per capita than the us yet only a fraction of the gun violence.

Violence is a social problem and should be treated as such. And no, guns should not be in vending machines, that's not what i'm saying.

Kiddie porn, etc is not a neutral thing and rather a product of child abuse, the resources would be better spent tracking down and dealing with child abusers/pornographers.

sincerly, basil, the canadian shit disturber

 

[Tranc3R]

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=cleanfeed

^ fair chunk of coverage of the Australian Internet Censorship.

Some notes to point out:

This round of censorship started with Australian Christian Lobby and the Australian Family Association (a relgious right group), putting together a petition and getting 20,000 signatures from mainly Latter day saints churches.

Hidden ACMA List, Government made moves to never allow Freedom of Information Act to gain access.

Sen.Conroy tried to hush up Mark Newton (Network Engineer) over critising the filter, also called anti-filter propents pedophiles.

Jim Wallace from Australian Christian Lobby spewing mis-information about the filter and calling Mark Newton a liar even though Mark was citing from the legislation.

Australia WILL be censoring both ILLEGAL and LEGAL materials.

Most of the push is comming from the religious minority.

http://getup.org - has 90,000+ signatures and $50,000+ in donations to stop the censorship. Despite what the religious zealots and ignorant lobbists say, the majority is against it.

Censorship has been critisied by a wide range of people including harvard professors, system admins guild of australia and child protection groups.

This idea is disturbing for a democracy to say the least.