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ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

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joedub

Member
...I've dined and spent $1000s on seeds......doesn't mean I have to agree with his opinion.....way over there. As a California voter I rather resent the prompting and the moral crusade being pushed California's way...by many... no where near the state. How would you like somebody telling you how to vote....in your place of residence? I understand the issue and the emotion....but come on.

Do I need to agree with legalization.....this particular Bill....to be a member? If so....I'll close my account.....if not....I agree to disagree with the magazine and some of its members. It's a California vote....whether you think it's your business or not.

That was gross...I've never dumped in anyone's front yard....seriously.

IMO it's selfish if you think that we should vote for this because it's taboo in your state and you think this will help YOU get legalization faster. It's like 1 step forward and 2 back? They call it legalization for those over 21, but restrictions are you can only possess 1 oz. or you go to jail(you can be charged for possession in your home). this will keep prices low? given the 1 oz. possession limit, how can you cultivate more than an oz. w/o possessing it? You want California to vote for Richard Lee to be 1/4 of the people who can get and afford the $211,000 a year permit to grow farm style? whilst everyone else can only possess an oz? I know you guys can see the flaws in the TC2010 and how it can hurt Californians, sad that you think that voting in a bad law that's bad for Californians and good for greedy corporate types like Richard Lee any good? or faster legalization in your state. since that seems to be what you really want instead of what's good for us Californians.

If you disagree w/ my decision to vote no on prop 19 based on the following info, please feel free to debunk it, but please stay civil.
When most marijuana activists, growers and consumers first heard about an initiative that would legalize cannabis in California, they thought it was a pipe dream come true. To many, legalization implied that it would no longer be a crime to possess, consume or distribute marijuana. Cannabis consumers rejoiced at the idea of being able to buy from their neighbors or at parties—just as they already do—with no legal retribution. Small-time growers envisioned being free to sell their product to those who sought them out, with no legal repercussions. Marijuana activists thought it meant that people would stop getting arrested for pot, and that the drug war would finally be over. But now that the initiative is headed to ballot, many pro-legalization supporters are coming out against it. Why?

Simply put, the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative does not reflect most people’s ideas of what legalization would be. The media often incorrectly reports that this initiative calls for “full legalization” of marijuana. It does not. In fact, it reverses many of the freedoms marijuana consumers currently enjoy, pushes growers out of the commercial market, paves the way for the corporatization of cannabis, and creates new prohibitions and felonies where there are none now. Apparently, to be pro-legalization and pro-initiative are two different things entirely.

The late-Jack Herer, legendary marijuana activist known as the father of the legalization movement, vehemently opposed the initiative. In the last words of his impassioned final speech, moments before the heart attack that would eventually claim his life, he urged people not to support it.[1] Proposition 215 author, Dennis Peron, likewise denounced the initiative, saying it is not legalization, but “thinly-veiled prohibition.”[2]

Compared to the present status of cannabis in California, many marijuana activists see this initiative as a giant leap backward. Ironically, it appears that marijuana is more “legal” in California today than it would be if this initiative were to pass.

The initiative itself is a hazy maze of regulations and controls, some of which are ambiguous and confusing even for those well-versed in marijuana law. Understandably, many who have entered the discussion seem to have bypassed the initiative altogether and gone straight to their own assumptions of what an initiative that claims to legalize marijuana might entail, injecting the debate with as many misconceptions as facts. But for an issue that would have such a direct and unprecedented impact on our daily lives, it’s crucial to decide your vote based on knowledge, rather than assumption.

To clarify a few of the most glaring myths about the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative, I have compiled this guide to help you VOTE KNOW!


Myth #1: The initiative will end the War on Drugs and substantially reduce marijuana arrests, saving millions in prison costs.
Fact: Hardly. The federal drug war will continue to drone on, of course, and growing or possessing any amount of marijuana would still be illegal under federal law. Anyone growing or possessing cannabis without a doctor’s recommendation would still be subject to arrest and seizure by the federal police—although on the bright side, the Obama administration recently announced it will no longer raid individuals who are operating in compliance with medical marijuana law.[3]

Contrary to popular assumption, the drug war in California will not end, nor will it be impacted much by the initiative. This is because the initiative doesn’t call for full legalization; it proposes to legalize possession of only up to one ounce. And in California, there is no “drug war” being fought against possession of up to one ounce, because marijuana is already decriminalized.

The penalty for carrying an ounce is a mere citation and maximum $100 fine.[4] Moreover, possession of one ounce is on its way to being downgraded from a misdemeanor to an infraction, because the state Senate voted in June to reclassify its status. [5] No one goes to jail for having an ounce or less in California, and no one gets arrested, because it is not an arrestable offense.

One often-quoted statistic in the initiative debate is that misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests reached 61,388 in 2008.[6] However, it is important to note that this statistic does not refer to any arrest demographic that the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative would affect. This statistic refers only to possession of more than one ounce, possession by minors and possession on school grounds*—offenses which the initiative will not legalize. It does not refer to nor does it include marijuana arrests for possession of one ounce or less, because this is not an arrestable offense. Therefore, the initiative would have no impact on reducing these arrests rates.

Statistically, the demographic that accounts for nearly one-quarter of total arrests for marijuana possession in California happens to be those in the 18-20 age group. But because the initiative explicitly makes it illegal for even adults age 18-20 to possess marijuana, these arrests will not decrease, and the drug war against young adults will rage on.

Furthermore, since the initiative would keep possession of amounts greater than one ounce illegal and likewise maintain the illegality of private sales of any amount, the overall impact that the initiative would have on ending the drug war, reducing arrest rates and saving on prison costs would be negligible, at best.

As an example of how highly misunderstood this initiative and its potential impact on the drug war is, the California NAACP recently pledged their support for the initiative based on the belief that it will put an end to the disproportionately high number of African-American youth going to jail “over a joint.” [7] But in reality, the initiative will have no impact on this phenomenon whatsoever. As it is now, the State of California does not jail people for having a joint; it is not an arrestable offense. And, as mentioned above, possession of up to one ounce is on its way to being reclassified from a misdemeanor to an infraction—which carries no criminal-record stigma. The state does, however, incarcerate people for selling small amounts of marijuana. And since this initiative keeps private marijuana sales illegal, no matter the quantity, there will be no decrease in the number of African Americans—or anyone else—arrested for selling a joint.

Not only does the initiative do little or nothing to end the drug war, but ironically, it could in fact expand the drug war, because it imposes new felonies and prohibitions against marijuana that do not exist currently.

Contrary to the belief that it will keep people out of jail for marijuana, this initiative actually creates new demographics of people to incarcerate. (See Fact #2 and Fact #3) It is difficult to see how the government would save on court and imprisonment costs if the initiative merely shifts arrests from one demographic to another.

Myth #2: The initiative will keep young adults out of jail for using marijuana.
Fact: This initiative would put more young people in jail for pot. If it becomes law, any adult 21 or over who passes a joint to another adult aged 18-20 would face six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. [8] (NORML's Web site reports that the current penalty for a gift of marijuana of 1 oz. or less is a $100 fine.[9])

Myth #3: You'll be able to light up freely in the privacy of your home.
Fact: That depends. Under the initiative, even adults consuming marijuana in the privacy of their homes could face arrest if there are minors present (not something one would expect from an initiative that claims to treat marijuana like alcohol and tobacco)[10]. Current marijuana law contains no such restrictions. Thanks to Prop. 215, which legalized marijuana for medicinal use, cannabis consumers have been legally free to smoke in the privacy of their homes since 1997. This initiative seeks to undermine that freedom, making it absolutely illegal to smoke marijuana if there are minors present. (The initiative is ambiguous with regard to whether “present” means being in the same room as the consumer, the same house, the same apartment building, or within wafting distance—apparently leaving this up to the interpretation of judges.) There is no exception for medical marijuana patients or for parents consuming in the presence of their own children.

Myth #4: Under the initiative, anyone 21 or over will be allowed to grow marijuana in a 5’x5’ space.
Fact: Not quite. This allotment is per property, not per person. If you share a residence with other people, you’ll be sharing a 5’x5’ grow space, as well. Even if you own multiple acres that many people live on, if it is considered one parcel, the space restriction of 5’x5’ (3-6 plants) will still apply. [11] Plus, if you rent, you will be required to obtain permission from your landlord—which they may be unwilling to grant since doing so will subject them to forfeiture by the federal government.

Myth #5: Adults 21 and over will be able to possess up to one ounce of marijuana without penalty.
Fact: Perhaps the most ironic piece of the puzzle is that the initiative to legalize marijuana actually makes it illegal to possess marijuana if it was purchased anywhere other than the very few licensed dispensaries in the state.[12] So if this initiative passes, better not get caught carrying marijuana you bought off your neighbor, your current dealer, or at a party; you could get arrested. And if you do buy from a licensed dispensary, better keep your receipts, because the burden of proof will be on you. Not only is this inconvenient, but it sets the industry up to be monopolized.

What’s more, if your city decides not to tax cannabis, then buying and selling marijuana in the city limits would remain illegal. You would be permitted to possess and consume marijuana, but you would be required to travel to another city that taxes cannabis to buy it.[13] This is a move towards decreased, not increased, access. And since the initiative is so ambiguous that cities are destined to be tied up in a legal quagmire over how to interpret it, many local governments might find it simpler just to opt-out and send its citizens elsewhere. Indeed, 129 cities did just that with medical marijuana, banning it outright, while still others have established moratoriums against dispensaries. In fact, of the entire state, only the city of Oakland has endorsed the initiative. A vote for the initiative will therefore not ensure local access to purchase marijuana legally.

Myth #6: The initiative will free up cops to focus on bigger crimes.
Fact: Decriminalization has already achieved this. The California Police Chiefs Association publicly admits that they do not waste their time on cases involving an ounce or less.[14] Moreover, many cities have already passed measures that require law enforcement to make marijuana possession their lowest priority.

What the initiative would do is create new prohibitions and felonies where there were none before, obligating police officers to spend valuable time enforcing them. The cases cops presently de-prioritize are minor offenses, like simple possession. But the initiative takes minor offenses and reclassifies them as more serious crimes (e.g., passing a joint to an adult 18-20). Law enforcement’s time is freed up by the elimination of prohibition, not by exchanging old prohibitions for new ones.

Myth #7: Marijuana tax revenue will go toward education and health care.
Fact: As it is now, state budget cuts have resulted in the closing of state parks, and health care for impoverished children has been revoked, not to mention thousands of government lay-offs. But marijuana taxes will not be earmarked for health care, public education, the re-opening of state parks, or rehiring of laid-off government employees. Instead, the initiative specifically states that any marijuana tax revenue can be used toward enforcing the new prohibitions that the initiative enacts.[15] In this regard, not only does the initiative not end the drug war, it apparently taxes the drug to fund the drug war.

Myth #8: Marijuana growers will be able to sell cannabis legally.
Fact: Currently, marijuana growers in California who have a medical recommendation can and do grow and provide marijuana legally. Entire economies in Northern California exist on this industry. However, the initiative would make it illegal for anyone to sell marijuana, unless they own a licensed dispensary.[16] (See Fact #9)

Many have suggested that growers could open marijuana-tasting venues, similar to wine-tasting at vineyards. A grower might have a chance of opening such a place, but only if he gave his product away for free, because selling it would be illegal unless he successfully navigated the notoriously difficult and prohibitively expensive process of obtaining licensure.

Myth #9: Anyone can obtain a license to legally sell cannabis and compete in the market.
Fact: Few people will be able to compete in the multibillion-dollar marijuana market if the initiative passes. This is because the licensing process, engineered in Oakland, is exceptionally restrictive. Of the more than a thousand dispensaries operating in California until a recent L.A. crackdown, only a handful were licensed. (Conveniently, Richard Lee, the millionaire behind the initiative, owns one of them). In Oakland, the city that’s setting the precedent in the tax cannabis push, a license costs $30,000. Per year. Not to mention the rigorous application process, in which even well-established, law-abiding dispensaries have been denied.

Furthermore, Oakland has started a trend of capping the number of licensed dispensaries allowed to operate (in Oakland, that number is four). This all but guarantees that the average, small-time marijuana grower will be shut out of this multibillion-dollar industry, concentrating the profits of the potential economic boon in the hands of a small minority of wealthy entrepreneurs who are already making moves to monopolize the industry. Under this initiative, the marijuana industry will not be a free market in which everyone has a chance to compete. Instead, the initiative could mark the beginning of the corporatization of marijuana. (See also Fact #15)

Myth #10: Medical marijuana patients would be exempt from the initiative.
Fact: This is not exactly true. While amendments were made ostensibly to prevent the initiative from affecting current medical marijuana law, a careful reading of the initiative reveals that this is not, in fact, the case. Certain medical marijuana laws are exempt from the prohibitions the initiative would enact, while others are glaringly absent.

Cultivation is one such law that is noticeably non-exempt.[17] In spite of the fact that the tax cannabis Web site says otherwise, the only medical marijuana exemptions that the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative actually makes are with regard to possession, consumption and purchase limits, which only ensure that patients would still be allowed to buy medicine at dispensaries. The word “cultivate” is conspicuously absent. Whereas today a person with a doctor’s recommendation has the right to grow up to an unlimited number of plants, the initiative would drastically reduce that number to whatever can fit in a 5’x5’ footprint (around 3-6 plants—per property, not per person). This will force many patients to resort to buying instead of growing their own medicine, because of the inconvenience caused by producing multiple grows a year rather than growing a year’s supply of medicine at one time, as many patients currently do outdoors. And growing indoors—which typically requires special grow lights, an increase in hydro use, and a lot of time and attention—is a comparatively expensive endeavor.

The initiative would further impact medical marijuana patients by banning medicating in the privacy of their own homes if there are minors present, as well as in public (currently perfectly legal[18])—an invaluable liberty to those with painful diseases who would otherwise have to suffer until they got home to relieve their pain.

Finally, the medical marijuana laws that are exempted from this initiative apparently only apply to cities. For medical marijuana patients who live in an area that has county or local government jurisdiction, according to a strict reading of the initiative, medical marijuana laws are not exempt.[19]

Myth #11: Marijuana smokers will be free to smoke cannabis wherever cigarette smoking is allowed.
Fact: Actually, that's the way it is now in California. There is no law prohibiting medical marijuana from being smoked wherever cigarette smoking is permitted.[20] Young adults taking bong hits in Golden Gate Park on a Sunday afternoon is just part of the San Francisco scenery. However, if this initiative passes, that freedom would disappear and we could see cops policing smoking areas to enforce this law.[21]

Myth #12: Currently imprisoned non-violent marijuana offenders would be released.
Fact: The initiative makes no call to release prisoners who are behind bars for any marijuana offense, no matter how minor. In fact, because it introduces new prohibitions where none exist now, the initiative could potentially be responsible for locking even more people up for marijuana.

Myth #13: Counties in which marijuana cultivation currently thrives will experience increased economic growth.
Fact: Entire economies could collapse in counties that currently rely on cultivating marijuana. Right now, the multibillion-dollar marijuana industry is legally subsidizing thousands of incomes in areas where unemployment is skyrocketing. For example, Mendocino County, the biggest pot-producing county in the U.S., reports that a full two-thirds of its economy is dependent on marijuana.[22] Much of this is due to current state medical marijuana laws, which allow people to legally cultivate plants and provide them to marijuana pharmacies. But this economy supports more than just farmers.

Many local store owners report that without marijuana farmers patronizing their businesses with cash, they would go out of business. Moreover, legitimate medical marijuana growers employ tens of thousands of seasonal workers, mostly young adults, who have managed to eke out a living in a region where none other exists, and who otherwise would have few local options to support themselves. The more humble among them are able to make a living that sustains them modestly throughout much of the year. Thousands more are able to subsidize low-paying jobs, make up for shortages in their college funding, and start creative projects such as fashion design, music production, or art. But because the initiative would limit the number of plants one could grow from up to an unlimited amount to about six, thousands of small-time medical marijuana farmers and the young adults they employ would face economic displacement and hardship, or join the ranks of the unemployed. (For more on this, see Fact #15.)

Myth #14: The initiative will create an employment boon similar to California’s wine industry.
Fact: Comparisons with the wine industry are no true basis for determining the potential revenue recreational marijuana could create, because the wine industry does not operate under the same restrictions the marijuana industry would face. Namely, there’s no cap on how many wineries can operate in California, or how many grapes each vineyard can grow. There are currently almost 3,000 vineyards in the state, whereas since the April crackdown in L.A., there are fewer than 300 dispensaries (of which only a few are licensed). Moreover, if cities continue to follow the trend set by Oakland and cap the number of licensed dispensaries allowed to operate, then the thousands of people currently legally employed by dispensaries would dwindle drastically.

Myth #15: The initiative will limit the viability of Mexican drug cartels.
Fact: Mexican drug cartels are already being undermined tremendously thanks to the legions of small-time farmers growing in California. The Washington Post reported on October 7, 2009:

“Almost all of the marijuana consumed in the multibillion-dollar U.S. market once came from Mexico or Colombia. Now as much as half is produced domestically, often by small-scale operators who painstakingly tend greenhouses and indoor gardens to produce the more potent… product that consumers now demand, according to authorities and marijuana dealers on both sides of the border. … Stiff competition from thousands of mom-and-pop marijuana farmers in the United States threatens the bottom line for powerful Mexican drug organizations in a way that decades of arrests and seizures have not, according to law enforcement officials and pot growers in the United States and Mexico.”[23]

These mom-and-pop growers don’t fit the stereotype of the gang-war era drug pusher or Mexican drug cartel growing marijuana irresponsibly and setting forests on fire. Many of them are law-abiding citizens, legally growing medical marijuana under Prop. 215. They’re the people you see at your local organic health food store, or shopping in the community, putting much-needed cash directly into the local economy while the national economy flounders in recession. These small-time marijuana farmers use the money they earn from providing medicine to finance their kids’ education, help out their laid-off parents and put themselves through school. In some cases, entire communities depend on them.

However, if this initiative passes, these growers that are single-handedly undercutting the Mexican drug cartels would no longer be able to legally operate and the face of the marijuana industry could change from the local one we recognize to an impersonal corporate entity, leaving a spate of displaced marijuana farmers in its wake.

One corporation that is poised to take the place of the mom-and-pop growers is AgraMed. While Oakland’s city council prepares to consider a proposal in July to license four commercial indoor marijuana farms in the city, AgraMed has plans to build a 100,000-sq.-ft. marijuana mega-farm near Oakland International Airport that, “according to projections, could generate 58 pounds of pot a day and $59 million a year in revenue.” The company’s president, Jeff Wilcox—a member of the steering committee of the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative—reportedly hopes to “bring a degree of corporate structure to the marijuana industry.”[24]

The language that backers of the initiative use itself is cause for concern among pro-marijuana supporters. Instead of speaking out against the injustice of jailing people over a plant that is widely known not only to be harmless, but beneficial, these multimillionaire supporters of the initiative speak only of their intentions to corporatize marijuana. The owner of one leading marijuana dispensary—that already earns well over $20 million a year—was quoted in the New York Times as having aspirations to become the “McDonald’s of marijuana.”[25] The proprietors of Oakland’s new i-Grow hydroponics store want it to be known as the “Wal-Mart” of grow stores.[26] Meanwhile, Marijuana, Inc., a multimillion-dollar corporation, has plans to build cannabis resorts in the Northern California counties that currently survive off the medical marijuana industry.[27] They intend to create golf resorts with acres of marijuana gardens featuring hundreds of strains. (Apparently, under this initiative, corporations would be permitted to grow quite large quantities of cannabis, while cultivation would be restricted to 5’ x 5’ plots for everyone else.)

The accusations that medical marijuana growers oppose the initiative out of greed are clearly grossly unfounded. It is obvious who has intentions of increasing their bottom line. Small-time marijuana farmers simply want to continue making a humble living off the land. They are the ones who built the marijuana industry, but this initiative seeks to allow corporations to take their hard work and turn it into profits for themselves, locking farmers out of the industry entirely.

We have seen this trend before in the United States. Our history is replete with small farmers being taken over by huge corporations. Hundreds of thousands of mom-and-pop businesses have been forced out of business by conglomerates like Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and Monsanto, which those who benefit from such takeovers have justified by calling it “progress.” But is it? And is this the sort of “progress” we want to see take over the marijuana industry? Is this the world Peter Tosh had in mind when he implored us to “legalize it?”

Marijuana may well be the final bastion of farmer-owned, worker-owned, business autonomy in this country. Will we allow it, too, to go the way of nearly every other homegrown industry in the history of the United States? We all hope for legalization. But must we have such a drastic, Faustian trade-off for this freedom? And is it really freedom if we must lose our autonomy to gain it?

One farmer’s response to the news of Marijuana Inc.’s resort aspirations poignantly sums up the pending reality should the initiative pass:

“Marijuana, Inc., has big plans to invade the Emerald Triangle and surrounding counties to really capitalize on marijuana tourism. Maybe that sounds like fun to people that aren’t from around here, but it is really going to take away a lot of opportunity from the locals who make this place what it is. I feel that the people here who created this industry are going to be left in the dust for the most part… There is just too much money at stake and that is what these guys are all about. This is the equivalent of the giant hotels popping up on the Hawaiian Islands and the locals being told, ‘You can still work at the resort. We’ll need maids and groundskeepers who’ll work for minimum wage...’”[28]

What is currently a small-time, largely organic industry—on which entire economies survive, and without which entire economies would collapse—could soon become dominated by corporations if this initiative passes. The days of “knowing your dealer” and what goes into your pot could soon be over, and marijuana, a sacrament to many, could become corporatized. Are corporations inherently evil? No. But if we have the option to keep millions of dollars in our own communities, spread out over hundreds of thousands of people, it hardly seems sensible to outsource this employment to corporations and into the hands of a few.

Is it possible to have marijuana legalization without legalizing corporate takeover of the industry? Absolutely. Will those who are passionate about marijuana live to regret voting in an initiative that treats marijuana as a publicly-traded commodity and turns it into something as abhorrent as Wal-Mart and McDonald’s? Absolutely. Do we have to settle for this? Absolutely not.

Myth #16: The price of marijuana will drop.
Fact: The value of marijuana might decrease if it becomes more commercially available and more people grow their own, but the price of a product depends less on its value and more on the degree of competition that exists with regard to selling it. Since your options for purchasing marijuana would be among only a handful of licensed dispensaries in the state, there is no guarantee of a decrease in price. Less competition means higher prices.

Indeed, by AgraMed’s own estimation, in order to make $59 million a year off 58 pounds per day, they would have to charge $175 per ounce wholesale (roughly $2,800 per pound)—and that’s if they produced 58 pounds 365 days a year. If they managed to produce that output only 5 days a week, that price would leap to $245 an ounce (about $3900 per pound). With shelf-prices at dispensaries often set at double the wholesale purchase price—not to mention the compulsory tax added onto every ounce (which Richard Lee stated in an interview was "recommended" to be $50)—the price of marijuana could potentially be higher than it is in our current market, in which the price of a pound has already fallen to $2,000, according to a recent National Public Radio report; a direct result of healthy competition, not its opposite.[29]

Myth #17: We can vote in the initiative and fix the tangles as they come up.
Fact: Initiatives create permanent statutes. Once an initiative is voted into law, it cannot be reversed. It remains law forever. It is worth noting that this initiative makes some unusual provisions with regard to amendments. For starters, it allows the legislature (traditionally hostile toward marijuana legislation) to amend the initiative without voter approval. Furthermore, it allows amendments, but “only to further the purposes of the Act.”[30] Under a monopolized, corporate-controlled distribution process, the “purposes” might become more narrowly defined.

Many of the issues that pro-legalization supporters have with the initiative could be easily rectifiable with a few sentences and an amendment-submission to the Attorney General’s office. It would have required very little on the part of the initiative authors to remove the vagueness from the wording that bans smoking cannabis in any “space” where minors are “present,” for example, or to add an exemption for medical marijuana patients and parents consuming in the presence of their own children. It would have required very little to write into the initiative a line that would exempt medical marijuana patients from the public smoking ban and protect their right to grow medicine in amounts sufficient for their individual needs. After all, these are items which should not be considered luxuries under legalized marijuana; they should be rights. And we should settle for nothing less.

Unfortunately, the deadline to make changes to the initiative before the November elections has already passed, and to achieve these changes via subsequent voter referendums would be a complicated and drawn-out process that could take years. Making the initiative acceptable before voting it into law is therefore essential.

Myth #18: This is our only chance to take a step in the direction of legalization.
Fact: This is only our first chance—it will certainly not be the last. There were three other initiatives that sought to be placed on the ballot this year; all three would have legalized not only possession, but also private distribution among individual adults. Some even called for the release of non-violent marijuana offenders. However, staffed exclusively by volunteers, all failed to gather the required number of signatures for the petitions. (Richard Lee invested $1.3 million of his own money to hire a company to obtain the requisite signatures for the current proposed initiative.[31])

What now?

The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative is not the only path to legalization. We have come so far, and are now so close—it is imperative that we let the next step be the right one. Legalized marijuana is within reach, yet the movement could be set back with such a problematic initiative at the helm. Instead of rushing to pass a measure that prohibits marijuana under the guise of legalization, we can draft an initiative that calls for true legalization and that has the full support of marijuana law reform organizations and leaders of the movement.

The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative is rife with ambiguity, expands the War on Drugs, undermines the medical marijuana movement, arrests more people for marijuana, offers no protection for small farmers and insufficient protection for medical marijuana users, has a high potential for monopolization, provides no regulations to prevent corporate takeover of the industry, cartelizes the economy, and divides our community into poor, unlicensed, mom-and-pop gardener versus rich, licensed, corporate farmer. And since the one thing that’s clear about the initiative is that it’s vague, it could very easily prove to be a Pandora’s box of unintended consequences. Beyond its vagueness, which itself is problematic, these side effects are inherently socially dangerous. The impact that such a failed legalization initiative could have on the movement nation-wide could be disastrous.

This is not a question of whether to legalize or not to legalize. Legalization is the goal and it is inevitable. The question is whether we want to rush in and settle for an initiative that is so poorly-worded as to be ambiguous, and so vague as to be open to vast interpretation from judges—or wait for the wording and other inconsistencies to be corrected for 2012. If we hold out for a perfect initiative we will wait forever. But if we at least hold out for an initiative that is direct, unambiguous, well-defined and clearly written, we will have an unprecedented opportunity to inspire the world to join the movement to legalize marijuana.

Many pro-legalization activists are rallying behind the idea of taking the time to craft an initiative that will be a clear step up from the current cannabis situation of in California and will result in increased access—not its opposite. Both NORML and the MPP, the foremost cannabis law reform organizations in the country, have suggested we wait and make another attempt at legalization during the 2012 elections. Dale Gieringer, Director of California’s NORML, said, “I do think it’s going to take a few more years for us to develop a proposal that voters will be comfortable with.”[32] Likewise, Bruce Mirken, MPP’s Director of Communications, was quoted as saying, “In our opinion, we should wait and build our forces and aim at 2012.”[33]

Ultimately, the decision is not up to any organization; it’s up to YOU. How will you vote? Read the initiative for yourself and just VOTE KNOW!


“I hope people find the hope and inspiration to broadcast this, understand (the initiative), read it, and know that it's a step backwards. And we can do better. We will do better.” - Dennis Peron


Sidebar: What it Actually Says

About possessing marijuana bought somewhere other than a licensed outlet:
Section 3: Lawful Activities: Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls: (g) prohibit
and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300; [Section 11300: (i) possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301.]

About the punishment for giving marijuana to adults age 18-20:
Section 4: Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors: (c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.

About smoking in the presence of minors:
Section 3: Lawful Activities: Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls: (c) “Personal consumption” shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit: (iv) smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present.

About using marijuana tax revenue to fund law enforcement against pot prohibition:
Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees (a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.

About medical marijuana exemptions:
B: Purposes, 7: Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. (Note: The word “cultivate” is conspicuously absent here as well as in the exempted Health and Safety Sections that pertain to medical marijuana laws.)

About leaving medical marijuana cultivation law in the hands of local government:
Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls: Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following: (a) cultivation, processing, distribution, the safe and secure transportation, sale and possession for sale of cannabis, but only by persons and in amounts lawfully authorized. (Note: This section provides no exemptions for medical marijuana law.)

About the right to cultivate:
Section 3: Lawful Activities: Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls: (ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel.
 

mullray

Member
IMO it's selfish if you think that you should vote for this because it's taboo in your state and you think this will help YOU get legalization faster. It's like 1 step forward and 2 back? They call it legalization for those over 21, but restrictions are you can only possess 1 oz. or you go to jail(you can be charged for possession in your home). this will keep prices low? given the 1 oz. possession limit, how can you cultivate more than an oz. w/o possessing it? You want California to vote for Richard Lee to be 1/4 of the people who can get and afford the $211,000 a year permit to grow farm style? whilst everyone else can only possess an oz? I know you guys can see the flaws in the TC2010 and how it can hurt Californians, sad that you think that voting in a bad law that's bad for Californians and good for greedy corporate types like Richard Lee any good? or faster legalization in your state. since that seems to be what you really want instead of what's good for us Californians.

What would you have our politicians do? One step at a time and if prop 19 doesn't pass (which it may not do anyway and this is then all strictly conjecture) do you really think they'll rewrite another prop which is even more lenient and which then stands no chance of passing. Yeah - vote no and vote yes for prohibition. It makes me laugh that all these so called pro legalization advocates are now trying to hold back the progress the med and legalization movements have made. And welcome to capitalism. Perhaps that's really your point. Your product is going to devalue by up to 80% and let's face it no one can move their grows as it is. Go invest in a large grow, hire lawyers to lobby and apply for permits, pay the state for a license. What you're saying is Microsoft should be banned (and the computer age should have been stopped) which would mean we wouldn't be on this forum debating prop 19 because a bunch of lame arsed free loading whiners ceased progress because capitalism is what drives progress. Hey man, capitalism may not be a perfect system but it's the only system we have. I'm still waiting to hear how a vote for prop 19 is a vote for the IMF.... Please explain. (Although I expect that instead of offering anything intelligent up our local hero will just try to undermine and spread more fear mongering -albeit completely flawed- BS)
 

localhero

Member
mullray, the only reason you are so familiar with those terms is probably because youve taken those courses at some point in your life.

i didnt see the obvious connection between supporting the imf and prop 19 until gypsy brought it up.

heres the quote:

"The USA and it's IMF (International Monetary Fund) have with-held much needed aid/grants/loans to a multitude of different countries unless they comply with the USA's attitude on cannabis prohibition to try and eradicate cannabis and criminalize those that grow/supply and use it.....sending thousands of troops into foreign countries to propergate this war on the plant and supplying billions of dollars in military aid to various governments to help them to further this war on the plant and those that choose to cultivate or use it......."

apparently the imf wont, "give" out money to some nations because of their marijuana policies. i guess im supposed to believe that voting yes on this prop will then enable the imf to, "give" away free money because california voted in a proposition that allows big business to get into the grow game.

heres an analogy of what i mean by people in california (not you mullet, you arent from here) being offended by being told by outsiders how to vote:

lets say spain ran ads on american television begging and pleading for americans to vote for bush so that spain could get more money on their oil investments. well even if i were a bush supporter (im not) i would find that offensive. sure voting for bush would help the rich spanish oil investors make more money, but how does voting for bush help my country?


anyways its been fun, im off to bed its already 4 am here (12pm mullet time) and i should have been asleep a long time ago.

have fun peeps, remember its important to vote for someone elses best interests.
 

anikas88

Member
I think gypsy is saying that the USA is the biggest contributor of foreign aide through the IMF. Although the IMF is a world bank it is dependent on us money, and the us government will not lend money if it is does not comply with its draconian drug laws.
 

m21fire

New member
UMMM NO VOTE NO ON PROP 19 I mean the people that are actually from California reading this thread...VOTE NO ON 19!!!!!!Save the little guy that made this actually what it is.........
 

joedub

Member
@ mullray, monopolies don't drive progress, they cause stagnation. lack of competition = lack of drive. nothing wrong w/ capitalism w/ a healthy dose of competition.
I can tell your not from Cali. What would I have our politicians do? make a TC2010 that's for the people? or just don't try to enact laws that restrict us more and have potential to jail more non violent drug offenders? This law has the potential to take away some of our rights from SB215, So I vote NO, because I like to maintain my rights as a californian. don't tell me that it doesn't affect sb215 unless you can quote the part where it says so.

Edit:
No Prop 19 is no 'pipe dream'......it is very real and all Californian's of voting age can vote on it this coming November.....

Whether the Fed's are 'cool' with it or not is not the issue......it is quite obvious that the Fed's were not 'cool' with Prop 215 when it came to be voted upon or since......
They weren't "cool" with it, and they tormented us everywhere there was a grey area in the law[sb215 written where your limit would be x # and locally they could decide how much you could have but it couldn't be less than the sb215 limit(despite this many people arrested for over limit)]... prop 19 has blatantly obvious ones that they will exploit. So your saying that if we vote yes on a law that will hurt us, we might influence earlier legalization in your state? Don't jump the gun, Vote no until they write up a better one. Voting in a bad corporate back door law under the false pretenses of decriminalization will not lead us closer to legalization in your state.
 

m21fire

New member
So, then, should marijuana be kept strictly illicit throughout the United States? Not necessarily. Legalizing cannabis isn't a terrible idea, but I'd very much prefer to do it on a non-commercial (grow-your-own or consumers' co-op) basis rather than creating a multibillion-dollar industry full of profit-driven firms trying to encourage as much cannabis use as possible. The only way to sell a lot of pot is to create a lot of potheads — not casual, moderate recreational users but chronic, multiple-joints-per-day zonkers. (The alcohol industry, for example, gets 80% of its income from people with drinking problems.) A grow-your-own or co-op system would prevent that marketing push.

In any case, whenever and however we legalize the Demon Weed, it's going to have to be at the national level (which includes modifying the anti-drug treaties) rather than state by state. Any other approach is a pipe dream.

---FROM LA TIMES TODAY....when they say it doesn't have a chance it really doesn't....READ IT for yourself...VOTE NO ON 19!!!

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/16/opinion/la-oe-kleiman-marijuna-legalization-20100714
 
Keep complaining californians nothings ever good enough for the west coast attitude, yeah? While the rest of the country wants to throw up the one finger salute to the folks that have no consideration for a larger perspective. Oh no I can't carry more than an ounce with me at all times. If you smoke an ounce a day you MIGHT just wanna go to rehab pal. So far from what I can tell it's not that you can't OWN more than an ounce. It's that you can't constantly carry it around with you publicly. Like carrying about an ounce of herb in your pocket is that easy anyway! Goodness me I can only have 5'x5' or 25sq ft of grow space, lets start with at least you could HAVE a grow space. Let alone for all of the people who have to do it the stealthy way now. I've only ever had 4sq ft of grow space less than one fourth of what you could have there. Blah Blah big business this and that, guess what they're always gonna get a piece of the pie until you outlaw corporations! Oh by the way whats so bad about mom and pop gettin' shut down for a little while the fed's up in the DEA bust the corps for growing first? Lastly taxes, oh our economies bad right now it sure could use some help, but we don't wanna pay taxes compared to ridiculous black market prices. Hah! you pay taxes on everything already whats that one compared to your other ones? So much groanin' and moanin' and feet dragging when the right opportunity comes by FINALLY? Get over yourselves already, you've got it good and its about to get better and half of you hide away in a shell too coward for change. Quit your lazy west coast cryin' and get something done that the rest of the states keep gettin shot down for! I'm not gonna tell any of you how to vote but so help me I'll help spread the word that california screwed up their ONE good chance to date to help us all.

Sorry everyone and Mods I had to get that off my chest.

-S.E.
 
T

THE PABLOS

I'd welcome civilly stated opinions by those of similar love for the plant and those with a more well-rounded view of the ramifications (good or bad)....I'd do my best to open my mind to more than one possibility or opinion, and take from it what made sense to me, without showing such a biased opinion relating to my specific area. Knowledge and enlightenment gained from those who have already been a part of a fairly liberal system in such places as The Netherlands and Spain should be respected instead of met with condescending swarmy remarks disrespectful of the very place you are posting on. You can state your opinion, just don't get your knickers in a twist when others disagree with you. ;)

Urging all California voters to VOTE YES! :biggrin:

Btw...you are only unwelcome here if you breach the TOU of this site. ;)

:thank you:
DG


Where did I get my knickers in a wad? Where am I being condescending?

If anyone is being condescending....it may be you. Comments about learning from enlightened liberal places....indicates to me....that you think I know nothing of it. The Analogy comment was meant the same way....baiting and condescending. Your international collectivism points of view....are to me....condescending.

No man or political governing body....should have the right or power to tell an individual what he/she may grow.

I do not acknowledge their power....conceded to the regulation of Medical herb (pretty liberal concept don't you think?) and now....all these years later....view that as a mistake in principle. I choose not to make such a mistake again. Pretty simple. I'm not interested in working with a government that has lied to us about the weed...demonized it....and ignored the will of its people. They still ignore the will of the people. It stands to reason....they will continue to do so. Every time you bend to their regulation.....goes against my beliefs that they do not have the right to do so. As hick as that sounds.

I know you mods have super powers....big deal.....I'm not a professional politician/blogger....but in no way have I disrespected anyone nor was it my attempt to do so. My ship is just not sailing in the same direction as yours.....that's a difference in our views. I'm sure you have edited some of your posts as you smoke a fatty and reread something you had just recently written. In fact I would wager $ on that.

I have no beef with you lady....you seem to not much care for me though. Such is life.
 

someotherguy

Active member
Veteran
With all due respect,

Marijuana is already legal in california. mmj laws in cali offer more protections than this tax law does. read through the bill everyone please. what it will do is open the door for large scale commercial grows operated by big business with prohibitive liscensing fees.

medical marijuana has kept the cali scene relatively free from the influence of big business.

id like to keep it that way.


ps- if you dissagree with me on this bill, please do it for reasons other than "legalization"

the world is a much bigger place than just the 'cali scene'
and legalization is a plenty good enough reason to disagree
with you...with all due respect.

maybe you should ask JoeSchmoe how legal it is in
California, you can find him in prison in the 'cali scene'!
...maybe you should realize it's much bigger than just
what's good for you.

SOG

btw, once you open the door for the big companies to
start looking at cannabis as a commodity, they will begin
to fight for global legalization so that those like me who
grow weed but don't sell it to finally be free to not sweat
going to jail for raising flowers!

i'd much rather sweat being discovered for tax evasion
than for drug manufacture!
 

igrowone

Well-known member
Veteran
what is holding back many in California is the sense they can stay where they are, they've got a good MMJ setup, and it will stay that way
but if prop 19 goes down, what will the next events be?
maybe nothing, but maybe not
215 will likely stay intact, but there should be no doubt the anti MMJ forces will use a prop 19 defeat as ammunition
and while 215 may be difficult to touch, that's not true of doctors
licenses can be pulled, and that doesn't take any new legislation
if i was part of the dark side, that would be my plan
 
What I am sure of is it will stop people that are selling ounces for $400.00. In a short period of time there will be an abundance of Cannabus and the prices will reflect this.


Why doesn't anyone ever address the fact that anything that has real medicinal value recognized by the U.S. government is either HEAVILY regulated or completely illegal? We need to drop the medicinal fight before it bites us in the ass.

Even if they decide to tax it...anything other than the feds making it completely legal will only RAISE the prices (prescription prices are through the roof here unless you buy generic). Supply and demand I don't think could be worked out through this bill. The more "legally acceptable" it becomes, the more people will open up to it increasing the demand. If a business knows there are enough people that can afford the higher price...they will provide that level of service...not a lower, cheaper level of service. This leaves the have nots still as have nots. There is no compassion in corporate business.

Not to mention, Liberal policy making is really being scrutinized these days thanks to the current administration bumbling ways.
 
I'd also like to add that weed prices haven't changed in the past 20 years in my neck of the woods...and the only thing that is driving them down now is a horrible economy where most people can't afford weed PERIOD! Not political legislation!
 

Aeroguerilla

I’m God’s solider, devil’s apostle
Veteran
let them try and vote this in. the feds will shoot it down in no time. another pipe dream wake up cali prohibition is alive and well.
 
I'm going to lay out a perfect example why this won't work like its being promoted.

For decades places like Las Vegas and Atlanta were the only places you could go in the states to gamble. It was big business for them. They received a lot of money from tourism and taxes. For the last two decades michigan (mainly detroit) kept bringing up votes to try and allow gambling in michigan saying it will bring jobs and taxes to Detroit (which are much needed) and revenue to the rest of the state as well.

They finally got it through and can you guess what kind of an impact it's had? None really. They have filed bankruptcies, went back on business deals and just generally have not been the big boom everyone was imagining it would be.

The people will not benefit from this in the long term.
 

JJScorpio

Thunderstruck
ICMag Donor
Veteran
let them try and vote this in. the feds will shoot it down in no time. another pipe dream wake up cali prohibition is alive and well.

Here's something to think about. And we can't get deep into this because it will turn into a political shitfest.

The timing on this couldn't be better. If this Bill passes, Obama has promised to let the States decide for themselves. Obama will need California to get reelected. He has to be smart enough to know that if Cali passes this Law and he shoots it down he WILL NOT win the State of California in the next election......

I would like to say that I understand the anger from those that grow Cannabis for a living and are afraid this Bill will put them out of business. I think if you use your imagination you will be able to come up with other ways to profit from this. Couldn't a few of you go into business to sell high quality cannabis? What about being a caregiver for a half dozen med patients?

I have friends in Cali, and although I feel for your finacial interests in this, I have to go with what I feel right. And that is to make sure that adults can grow their own Cannabis and enjoy knowing they won't lose their jobs, families or Liberties if arrested.....
 
I love ICMAG. love this community. my deepest respect to all the admins who got together to put together this thread.

you should understand though that it will be seen as offensive to some people who live in california to be told to vote a certain way by people not from here. it just will, even if you are right.
:):dance013::dance013: Count me in as offensive then! :dance013::dance013::)
 

mullray

Member
I've heard nothing but shit from a few dicks here. So voting yes for prop 19 isn't a vote for the IMF. Now there's a clever twist to the dribble. Funny how it's a bunch of capitalists who are saying vote no because it will step on our capitalist toes and we hate the fact that a bunch of capitalists are going to take control and step on our capitalist toes because capitalists suck lol.
 
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