ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[Dutchgrown]

THE PABLOS, because you fail to see that your first post in this thread, carefully selected words meant condescendingly towards the administrators of this site, set the tone for our dialog, I can't change your mind in that regard, is obvious.

I made an attempt but failed miserably in trying to get you to not 'look a gift horse in the mouth' (this site)...it was interpreted by me as you giving the middle finger to admin here for speaking our endorsement of this proposed law change which effects so many, even those who do not reside in California, due to the way legal changes that effect one area could evolve into indirectly as well as directly effecting other areas outside California.

I guess it would be fair to say that I got the feeling from you that you take this site for granted, not wanting (nor believing) that other non-California residents are very interested in this topic, nor have a right to voice their opinion about it unless a California resident. So......we'll just have to agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

Back to Prop19......

Excellent post 2Lazy....makes a lot of sense...downright common sense. I'm beginning to get a feeling that those who are so adamantly opposed to Prop19 are 'perhaps' part of a concerted effort by some coalition to come to one of the largest pro-cannabis sites on the internet and attempt to cause division, confusion, and use disinformation and scare tactics to keep Prop19 from passing. Is always a possibility....after all, this is the internet where (especially on a site like this) anonymity prevails.


DG

 

[gaiusmarius]

i just hope that this bill really is a step forward, not a bait and switch game to criminalize a bunch more people. i must say i have read some worrying things about this bill, so i'm a bit suspicious. i hope all you are right who say it won't change anything for the medical community.

the thing about probable cause when driving is not true though, you can not smoke any where in public under this new law, nor can you smoke in a car. while if cops are on your doorstep and smell fresh plants, they will be able to come in and check if you are sticking to the size limits, ie have fun keeping your 20 elite strains as mothers and still growing enough to smoke. your average guy can forget keeping a bunch of strains as mums under the 25 sq feet rule i'd think. if med scene stays the same they can be in charge of keeping strains alive i guess and the big corporations. isn't it fascinating how they have come up with a proposition that divides the cannabis community like never before?

wish the law was written in a understandable way not lawmakers jargon, would make it easier to trust them.

what ever else this is a momentous occasion just for the change in peoples perception of cannabis this will cause if it passes. i can see that from a world wise view this is reason enough to vote for it. in a way i'm glad i have no vote on this, not being a cali native.

 

[U4ic]

The reason this won't pass is because of all the ignorance. If the online population here is representative of Californian voters it should be no surprise when potheads vote against a bill that legalizes their actions. It's asinine at the highest level.

First off, Prop 19 will not change the rules imposed by SB215. If there is overlap it would be to allow a med patient to grow more plants than they are currently allowed in the 25sqft foot print. This allows more options to med growers, not less. Med patients will benefit from this bill passing in many ways, including lower prices for their medicine. Where it will get confusing is if there is a med grower and a non-med grower producing in the same house.

Secondly. You get to keep what you grow. The one ounce rule is for when you are out an about. If you harvest 2 pounds every 3 months, and after a year you have 5 pounds laying around then that is just fine under this law. READ IT FOR YOURSELF!

Thirdly, There is not going to be a monopoly on pot. America is very careful about monopolies and this irrational fear needs to be abandoned. Oakland just put out 4 licenses in their city. FOUR!!! Not One. Other cities will have the option to do the same thing, and this will increase market competition which is so classically capitalist I don't know how you get to monopoly.

Lastly, VOTE YES! Get your bong legalized. Get your pipe legalized. Car smells like pot when you get pulled over? NOT PROBABLE CAUSE!!! House smells like pot? NOT PROBABLE CAUSE!!!

Of all the reasons to vote yes it's this. What you are doing now is illegal (unless you're a med patient), and if it passes then there is far less "reason" for a cop to be suspicious that you're breaking the law and acquiring the search warrant is going to be VERY difficult.

If you smoke or grow pot and you do not vote yes for this law then you're an outright idiot in my book. I have yet to hear a reasonable argument against the law.

So if it allows you to smoke and grow, if it regulates the market and drives out the criminal industry, if it keeps everyone safe from probable cause, if it doesn't impact SB 215 negatively, if it allows a person to have their harvest in the place it was grown... then what's the big deal?!?!?!? How is this not a "No Brainer."

IMO, Prop. 19 opponents have not read the bill for themselves. They have been brainwashed by someone and they refuse to think for themselves.

Great post... How is this not a No Brainer exactlly...

 

[binaryfission]

i just hope that this bill really is a step forward, not a bait and switch game to criminalize a bunch more people. i must say i have read some worrying things about this bill, so i'm a bit suspicious. i hope all you are right who say it won't change anything for the medical community.

the bill has specific exemptions for Prop 215 and Sb 420. AS with any new legislation these points won't be codified until they are played out in court. Challenged and fine tuned. But the groundwork is there.

the thing about probable cause when driving is not true though, you can not smoke any where in public under this new law, nor can you smoke in a car. while if cops are on your doorstep and smell fresh plants, they will be able to come in and check if you are sticking to the size limits, ie have fun keeping your 20 elite strains as mothers and still growing enough to smoke.

this seems logical until you look it at from the other end of the microscope. How will police be able to keep up with all the houses that smell like marijuana? Who will call the police in a world of "legalized" pot? When is the last time some one you know was pulled over for not wearing a seat belt? or arrested for j-walking? It happens but with very very very little frequency.

even better example? how many people are convicted each year for sodomy? How many people stop having anal sex because of these laws?

wish the law was written in a understandable way not lawmakers jargon, would make it easier to trust them.

and i wish all cars were Porsches but they aren't. Its legislation, it can't be helped. read it for yourself. its pretty clear as far as legislation goes.

http://yes19.org/initiative.pdf

 

[THE PABLOS]

THE PABLOS, because you fail to see that your first post in this thread, carefully selected words meant condescendingly towards the administrators of this site, set the tone for our dialog, I can't change your mind in that regard, is obvious.

I made an attempt but failed miserably in trying to get you to not 'look a gift horse in the mouth' (this site)...it was interpreted by me as you giving the middle finger to admin here for speaking our endorsement of this proposed law change which effects so many, even those who do not reside in California, due to the way legal changes that effect one area could evolve into indirectly as well as directly effecting other areas outside California.

I guess it would be fair to say that I got the feeling from you that you take this site for granted, not wanting (nor believing) that other non-California residents are very interested in this topic, nor have a right to voice their opinion about it unless a California resident. So......we'll just have to agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

Back to Prop19......

Excellent post 2Lazy....makes a lot of sense...downright common sense. I'm beginning to get a feeling that those who are so adamantly opposed to Prop19 are 'perhaps' part of a concerted effort by some coalition to come to one of the largest pro-cannabis sites on the internet and attempt to cause division, confusion, and use disinformation and scare tactics to keep Prop19 from passing. Is always a possibility....after all, this is the internet where (especially on a site like this) anonymity prevails.


DG

I understand how that could be taken that way....I was thinking more on the sarcastic side though. I meant no disrespect for any admin or Gypsy. I will retract my sarcasm here and now. It gets a little frustrating for me sometimes....when it comes to the issue of votes in my home (Love my home) state. Some sound very unfeeling and down right rude. It is a nerve of localism.....forgive me if I can't express it better than that. I'm not exactly patriotic....but I do feel strongly for California....if I had my way...we would leave the Union behind.

I'll not take up a banter with anyone else on this issue. I do respect ICmag and its forums. I have had great success meeting like minded people (until this thingy) and befriending them....I enjoy my grow threads and have learned a lot about a bunch of different stuff...blogging in general...photography etc....I'm of no mind to push my way of doing things onto anyone else.

I'm married to a Swiss national (married over there...the Italian part...near the old SOL facilities) and try to have a more international view...as I realize California is not the entire planet....but it is difficult...as you may imagine....to not be thinking about immediate ramifications to us here if this Bill passes. You guys would still be looking at probably another decade....but we here....on the fly.

I'm cautious in my older age....I've been bitten many Xs....and I really don't think they have the right to tell me what to grow or put in my body....food or herb or poppy....etc.....
That's my idealism....though I know that will never work in these Xs....I do my best to keep myself out of the landslide of regulations and continue to be healthy.

That's it DG....I respect you as an internet entity....a breeder...grower....the whole 9 yards. Never wanted on your shit list. Maybe we will meet in a happy medium...our view points are not that different. Our taste in ganja plants are not that different either. Peace and goodwill....p

 

[CANNATOPIA]

I agree & Support IC Mag! Well said Gypsy!

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I can't tell if these people are just insanely moronic or if they are simply fear mongering...

But how can anyone believe they are losing freedoms by legalizing marijuana? It's already illegal to sale, transport, cultivate, posess and consume. How will prop 19 change any of that for the worst???

As far as lee goes...comparing his weed to mine would be like comparing a Kia to a BMW or amstel light to Karl Strauss....

 

[mrdizzle]

Brilliant. You want to buy it in wal-mart AND you want it legalized without 'turning it into a fat capitalist pig'.

Do you read what you write prior to clicking on the submit reply button?

Also, quite a few legal products are taxed.

You seem very, very, very confused. And your confused ass is going to vote, eh? Democracy does have its disadvantages.

its called sarcasim you fool

 

[localhero]

i teetered back and forth between yes and no on this for a while, but have come to the conclusion that i will be voting no. i have read the bill too.

can any of the supporters of 19 tell me how it offers more freedoms than prop 215?

by the way, im all for the taxation of cannabus.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

i teetered back and forth between yes and no on this for a while, but have come to the conclusion that i will be voting no. i have read the bill too.

can any of the supporters of 19 tell me how it offers more freedoms than prop 215?

by the way, im all for the taxation of cannabus.

No more fake doc visits. No more evaluation fees. No more getting arrested by cops. No liscense or recc needed to grow. No limits on home posession. And since it's legal the smell of mj can no longer be used for probable cause.

There is not a single reason to not voting yes. This is win / win.

Still waiting to hear a single valud argument against voting for prop 19......

 

[JJScorpio]

i teetered back and forth between yes and no on this for a while, but have come to the conclusion that i will be voting no. i have read the bill too.

can any of the supporters of 19 tell me how it offers more freedoms than prop 215?

by the way, im all for the taxation of cannabus.

It offers more freedoms because it allows any adult the right to grow, smoke and possess Cannabis. As it stands now only people with a cert from a doctor can do this...... I know it sounds easy to get a cert, but to some people that could affect ther employment, insurances and other things. This way they don't have to say anything to anyone and can grow and smoke in peace....

As an example, lets say I'm fine but I go to a doctor and fake a back injury so I can get a crertificate. A few years down the road I apply for health insurance and tell them I've never had any physical problems. I have now filed a false statement if caught. If I go along with the story and say I have a back problem I may be denied or pay a lot higher premium....... It may seem easy to fake an illness to qualify for 215 rights, but it could come back to bite you later in life.....

 

[localhero]

No more fake doc visits. No more evaluation fees. No more getting arrested by cops. No liscense or recc needed to grow. No limits on home posession. And since it's legal the smell of mj can no longer be used for probable cause.

There is not a single valid reason to not voting yes. This is win / win.

Still waiting to hear a single valud argument against voting for prop 19......

besides ommiting a few facts in your post, ill show you clearly why prop 215 supercedes 19, based on your arguments:

1- "No liscense or recc needed to grow" you mean you wont need a rec to grow under 25 square feet. i dont know anyone, even a guy i know who grows in his 20 ft boat who uses that little a space. under prop 215 you can almost grow as much as you want. i wouldnt go past 99...

2- "no limits on home possession". kelly vs the state over turned possession limits. however, 19 places limits outside the home, big time. 1 ounce? i dont think ive ever left the house with under an ounce.

3. "no more arrests" 19 enables you to be arrested in oh so many new and unusual ways. smoking around a minor - jail. someone under 21 get ahold of your bud. jail. over an ounce of bud on you outside your home? prop 215 allows far more protections from arrest than 19.

4. "smell, probable cause" probable cause for what? for a cop to come verify that your legal medical grow is indeed legal? this is california not nebraska.

any other questions?

i might be able to enlighten one more question before i head off to the beach.

peace.

 

[localhero]

It offers more freedoms because it allows any adult the right to grow, smoke and possess Cannabis.

you are comparing regulation vs. non medical rules here. im saying, fake doc or not, medical cannabus laws offer more protections and allow more freedoms concerning marijuana than regulation alone.

argue all day about your back injury bein real or not, doesnt matter. rec documentation is a private matter between yourself and your doc. hell dont say back pain when u get your rec, say you have trouble sleeping. it will not ever ever ever be used to deny you health care coverage.

with a rec, and yes anyone can get a rec and you will be far better set up than this prop 19 attempt at allowing big business to get a foothold in cali.

 

[localhero]

jj-

i just asked a dr friend of mine, telling a weed dr that you have back pain does not contsitute a pre existing condition. also i believe that pre existing conditions cant exclude you from health care now anyways right? i dunno ask obama.

 

[Faraway]

I wasn't going to post but after I read that NOR CAL won't let it pass I had to laugh. I'm a SO CAL man in my late 50's. I know lots of people that have smoked, but don't smoke regular or at all anymore. These people lay low for many reasons. I have talked to them about prop19, & all in SO CAL will be voting YES on this. They say it's about time. These people won't get fake doctor's papers because most don't feel right about it. Most of these people have good jobs & family. I think it will get passed, & I for one will vote YES! BTW, I do have a MMJ card for real reasons, plus I feel it's my RIGHT! California is for me!

 

[mrdizzle]

why cant we just decriminalize it, why does it have to TAXED(yaaay), CONTROLLED(yippie) and REGULATED(just want I was hoping for)? you think its going to be this great utopia. Lets think of how america and turned almost every pure industries into rancid, souless, companies driven by profits only. fastfood nation is a prime example of whats going to happen. Its all moot, shit isnt going to pass anywhoo and the FEDS are going to rape oakland's mega farms are soon as they harvest their first batch.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

So your going to vote no simply because it doesn't have as much wiggleroom as 215? Would you please explain why?

Just for your information I've been a patient since 02 and arrested 6 times for possession or cultivation...

 

[localhero]

heres my backyard, its a modest sized average backyard. 20 plants. completely medically legal.

if all i had were prop 19 protections, i would be violating the law 20 times. not one of these plants is less than 25 square ft.

i am not a major nor cal grower. anyone anywhere in cali with any back yard can do this. in fact im in so cal.


edit: ok im off to the beach, the lady finally finished her shower. and im sorry you got arrested 4 times, did you have your cali med id card? i reccomend everyone get one of these. i dont know anyone who has been arrested since kelly vs. the state was ironed out.

peace everyone

 

[Neo 420]

heres my backyard, its a modest sized average backyard. 20 plants. completely medically legal.

if all i had were prop 19 protections, i would be violating the law 20 times. not one of these plants is less than 25 square ft.

i am not a major nor cal grower. anyone anywhere in cali with any back yard can do this. in fact im in so cal.


edit: ok im off to the beach, the lady finally finished her shower. and im sorry you got arrested 4 times, did you have your cali med id card? i reccomend everyone get one of these. i dont know anyone who has been arrested since kelly vs. the state was ironed out.

peace everyone

When was this pic taken? One of those plants are flowering already....

 

[mullray]

On the upside it looks like most people favor Prop 19. Those who don't seem to have in some cases questionable motivations. My rationale is simple. Legalization is the only way. Decriminalization has never worked because there are too many gray areas that politicians then pick on to prove (argue) to the public why decriminalization laws should be overturned. And yep - I read someone saying that the Oakland farms are probably going to be raided after their first harvest. That's possible but then will this create a showdown between the States and the Feds?