ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[Kwazee Wabbit]

Bacchus, slowly put down the bong and go for a walk. (did you miss something?)

localhero, you and leo really are on the same side of this issue. Really.

 

[Hydrosun]

You obviously are not concerned with the "innocent souls" and families being torn apart by the current law. Or the 5000+ murders a year happening because of the current laws.

The NO voters are on the side of LEO and the murdering cartes....

Status quo = a win for LEO and the Cartels.

Prop 19 is way worse than the status quo for the simple reason that right now CA grows tons and tons and tons of nice weed. Almost ALL of that weed is grown in more than 25' by farmers who really don't want to be above the radar, but contribute hugely to the economy (see 1 - x TV specials on Mendocino).

When Prop 19 passes all of these CA Producers will become TAX EVADERS and FELONS for having more than 25' or they can go public and try for a permit. This is very scary because they are used to being under ground, don't really want the DEA getting their name, and could be denied the permit for any number of reasons or no reason at all.

I think CA Leo will have way more resources aimed at harming this community if Prop 19 passes than they will if it fails.

Prop 19 is great for me as a tourist to CA but it is TERRIBLE for my friends in CA who grow.

I think most of the YES call comes from SMOKERS and not GROWERS. I know GROWERS are a much smaller percentage of the CA population than SMOKERS and therefor I understand the support for 19. I was just hoping ICmag of all places on Earth would DENOUNCE any NEW criminal penalties for growers. And the members of this community would refuse to support the imprisonment of its PRODUCERS.

It is really hard to Overgrow the world if even the stoners support imprisoning home growers.

 

[nomaad]

You obviously are not concerned with the "innocent souls" and families being torn apart by the current law. Or the 5000+ murders a year happening because of the current laws.

The NO voters are on the side of LEO and the murdering cartes....

Status quo = a win for LEO and the Cartels.

Yeah. I call bullshit on the above statement as well. Fallacious argument. Scare tactic. Boo.

 

[Kwazee Wabbit]

During the 1920's, the mobsters, like Al Capone, made millions selling alcohol. They argued against legalization as did leo back then. There were a lot of gang related murders. Same as today. Some things never change.

 

[JJScorpio]

After Prop 19 passes both parents will go to prison and the children will be removed. Prop 19 adds new and improved penalties for adults who have MJ around kids, so your 25' or less still equals prison if you have kids.

Another GREAT reason to vote NO.

As long as they follow the law they will be fine. Nice fear mongering though....

 

[localhero]

localhero, you and leo really are on the same side of this issue. Really.

right now im gonna vote yes on this. hahaha ive gone back and forth so many times that im sure my credibility as far as taking a rock solid stance is totally shot.

if it was voted on today and failed, you wouldnt see me crying in the corner either..

the fact of the matter is:

not one person on this board can argue that 215 offers more protection and more freedom regarding cannabis than 19.

arguments that 19 is better than nothing, forget that we dont have, "nothing". we have 215, which is better than 19.

people who think no votes are because they dont wanna lose money to competition of big business, dont understand that big business weed is anti competition.

arguments based on dreamy visions that california passing a flawed pot law will make it so my friend and partner would have never died in a jakarta prison, are either not living in the reality of world politics, or are trying to make smokescreen arguments to cover the real reason they support 19

prove me wrong, please.

 

[JJScorpio]

I think most of the YES call comes from SMOKERS and not GROWERS. I know GROWERS are a much smaller percentage of the CA population than SMOKERS and therefor I understand the support for 19. I was just hoping ICmag of all places on Earth would DENOUNCE any NEW criminal penalties for growers. And the members of this community would refuse to support the imprisonment of its PRODUCERS.

It is really hard to Overgrow the world if even the stoners support imprisoning home growers.

Exactly. Smokers that want to grow their own and avoid the commercial parasites.

Why is it you want to continue putting these people in jail by voting no? Let me guess, you grow commercially, lol....

 

[nomaad]

As long as they follow the law they will be fine. Nice fear mongering though....

JJ: A legit analysis (albeit from a given perspective you may not share) of a part of the specific proposition we are discussing isn't quite the same as lumping a bunch of drug war facts into a jingoist post that served no purpose but to cause an emotional reaction.

One has no business in an open, productive discussion. The other is bullshit, any way you slice it.

 

[nomaad]

right now im gonna vote yes on this. hahaha ive gone back and forth so many times that im sure my credibility as far as taking a rock solid stance is totally shot.

if it was voted on today and failed, you wouldnt see me crying in the corner either..

I dunno. Does it make you more or less credible that you are not taking a rock solid stance on an issue that obviously really important to you, and where its not obvious what the right thing to do is.

both sides of the developed and rational argument have excellent points that bear more discussion...we have months to make up our minds. Of all the people that have made up their minds already not one has made a 100% compelling argument that would sway me in that direction at this point...with so much time to consider it.

i have more faith in a man who takes as much time as he's given with this one.... there are plenty of decisions that need be rushed in life. i'm going to let this one marinate.

 

[Hydrosun]

As long as they follow the law they will be fine. Nice fear mongering though....

The law says no WEED around kids. Tell me how a mom and dad are going to defend themselves against a claim from LEO that (1) there was weed in the house and (2) there were kids?

Seems pretty easy for LEO to put 1 and 2 together and it seems IMPOSSIBLE to PROVE your kids were not around the 25' garden in your house. This is ESPECIALLY true after LEO has charged you with having a kid and having weed.

Alcohol causes all kinds of trouble but I can take my kid into a CA sports bar and grill and drink a pitcher of beer right in front of him. But if we head over to a friends house to visit then the friend can not legally smoke weed in his own home in front of my kid.

This is exactly the wrong message to send and a horrible abuse of personal freedoms. Parents not the state should decide how their children are educated about weed and alcohol.

Who is the true FEAR-MONGER the person who advocates freedom or the ICmager who tries to convince this community that we should surrender our rights in order that tourists get weed in CA?

Remember any Californian who wants weed already has it. Prop 19 isn't going to make it easier to get because it is already WIDELY available.

 

[Bacchus]

...

prop 215 offers more legal protections and freedoms than 19.

I never said that was false. But, Prop 215 only offers a safe haven to those who have a medical need. Not to the recreational user.

Yeah. I call bullshit on the above statement as well. Fallacious argument. Scare tactic. Boo.

With the current laws who benefits? Illegal Cali growers who are not under the auspice of prop 215, the mexican cartels who import tons of marijuana into the US every year and LEO who get funding from the Federal goverment for fighting marijuana growers and sellers. Also another winner is the Cali prision workers unions and the industrial prison complex.

With prop 19 who wins. The recreational user who knows how to grow. We all know you could grow enough cannabis in a 25ft^2 plot to easily supply yourself and friends. Prop 215 is still in place, so the medical user is NOT effected.

Remember any Californian who wants weed already has it.

Only if they have a legit. medical reason, or does that just mean everyone in California????

 

[rives]

"When Prop 19 passes all of these CA Producers will become TAX EVADERS and FELONS for having more than 25' or they can go public and try for a permit." Um - these people are either growing under 215, which they still will be able to, or they are already "TAX EVADERS and FELONS". Meanwhile, the under <25 sq.ft. folks become legal, and perhaps the biggest thing of all is the bullshit invasion of privacy drug testing gets tossed. Sounds like a win to me.

 

[Kwazee Wabbit]

The only valid argument against 19 is that current commercial growers don't want competition to lower their prices. That and the leo's don't want to lower their numbers or their salaries. Ol' leo really enjoys having his way with cannabis users and growers. He can't give up that God-complex high he gets when he smashes down a stoners door and man-handles his wife and kids. Then he gets to shoot their dogs and cats and parakeets. And WABBITS! NOOOOOOOoooooooooo.

 

[nomaad]

Why is it you want to continue putting these people in jail by voting no? Let me guess, you grow commercially, lol....

if it were clear that less people would be going to jail, you'd have a lot more weight with commercial growers.

part of reaching more universally acceptable goals as a society is understanding that a balancing of self interest and wider interests must always take place.

you simply cannot tell a person who feeds their kids by growing marijuana to vote for this because less innocent people will go to jail and expect to convince them.

Now, if you were to actually convince them that a yes vote meant less people in jail in california for marijuana now? That might succeed at overriding their self interest in the name of compassion or a more global interest.

But nobody has been capable of doing this... so far. That would go far toward knocking me off the fence.

 

[MrBomDiggitty]

drug testing would probably go up

 

[smokeymacpot]

prop19 looks perfectly fine for everyone that wants to grow more than enough weed for their personal use. it costs them nothing in taxes either, it is essentialy free. that is ALL that matters.
seems to me some people who currently sell it realise they wont be able to make as much money if their customers can now grow their own weed. shame on them, selfish greedy bastards.
as always cannabis should be kept away from children, they should not be able to get hold of it and use it and i fully support harsh police action against those involved in supplying it to underaged people.

 

[localhero]

The only valid argument against 19 is that current commercial growers don't want competition to lower their prices. That and the leo's don't want to lower their numbers or their salaries. Ol' leo really enjoys having his way with cannabis users and growers. He can't give up that God-complex high he gets when he smashes down a stoners door and man-handles his wife and kids. Then he gets to shoot their dogs and cats and parakeets. And WABBITS! NOOOOOOOoooooooooo.

im gonna keep dissabling this argument.

commercial (i mean real commercial growing, think tobacco industry) under 19 will be able to lobby for restrictive liscensing that will eliminate the competition from every grower in california.

how?

by making commercial licensing unatainable to all but a very small number of growers.

this is not competition. when the means of production rest in the hands of the very priveledged few, prices will not drop. quality will suffer.

 

[smokeymacpot]

you simply cannot tell a person who feeds their kids by growing marijuana to vote for this because less innocent people will go to jail and expect to convince them.

maybe they should find a real job? growing weed is a cop out, a lazy easy job that makes alot of money. they can still grow for money, but they will have to do a propper job of it and go BIG time. there will be competition so they will have to do it well and cheaply.

 

[rives]

Why would drug testing (at least for pot) go up? I am a valid medical patient, and didn't pursue getting a recommendation until recently because I have always felt that what I did in the privacy of my home was no one's goddamn business. However, since I take opiate pain med's, the DEA has now forced my doctor into drug testing to insure that I am taking the med's and not selling them. At that point, if I got caught with cannabis metabolites in my system and didn't have the rec, I would get bounced out of the pain control program and could potentially be dropped by the workmen's comp carrier that is responsible for my treatment because I am using illegal drugs. With the 215 rec, everything is cool according to my doctor. However, if 19 passes, testing positive would mean nothing - it would be just as legal as if it were under 215. Please explain why you think testing would go up.

 

[Kwazee Wabbit]

I brew much better beer and make much better wine than I can purchase in most stores. It costs me much less than the cheapest in stores. I make so much that I give it to friends and family as gifts (which they more than readily accept). It is completely legal for me to do this.

I no longer purchase overpriced alcoholic beverages that contain chemicals and preservatives.

I would think the same would apply to cannabis after 19 is approved. I also see no reason that hemp would remain illegal to grow either. Just a thought.