ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[mullray]

Well I'll bite. Since tobacco was NOT ALLOWED to be regulated by the FDA until last year AND the FDA has made ZERO changes in cigarettes in the year it has had its regulatory power, then I can assume that FDA regulation has had ZERO benefit. And more importantly I can assume that since the country kept trucking during the couple hundred years of UNREGULATED tobacco, that UNREGULATED MJ will not harm the community.

Tobacco related deaths are huge yearly and the tobacco companies add thousands of chemicals and adulterants to their product and then nicely package it for sale in 7/11s. If someone wanted their weed sold in Walmart, 7/11, or Costco I could see the need for packaging but I'm sure growers and stores can work out packaging without government help.

You are just completely wrong if you think tomatoes are inspected by the gvt. There are regulations about how much chemicals and the like you spray on your crops but there are no police checking the tomatoes or making sure that the farmer doesn't have more than 25' of tomatoes. If the US Government had any ability to control food quality we wouldn't have e-coli outbreaks every week.

Why is ANY regulation of this plant necessary?

And exactly what is your point. Check pesticide regulations and tests in Ca. Keep in mind that the government is hampered by understaffed resources and enforcement is weak as it will be with cannabis in a legal framework.

As the Bill to have the FDA regulate tobacco was only passed in June 2009 there is yet a long way to go and again the FDA is hampered by lack of resources. Look man, stop throwing up distorted information - post links and relative information that support your arguments. No legislation is perfect - it never has been and never will be. What should we do overthrow the government and introduce anarchy. Well while you do that why not vote to end prohibition?

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/12/nation/na-tobacco12

http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/default.htm


"Why is ANY regulation of this plant necessary?" It's called prohibition at the moment and based on your views you'd have it kept that way.

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

The mindset of these extremist no-tax-no-regulate anti prop-19ers like HydroSun like that of some highschool knowitall "I am angry at the world" stupidity, cutting their noses to spite their face.

Grow the hell up, damn.
Can't even believe any adult would think like that and not have the foresight to realize the benefits of this legislation.

 

[Hydrosun]

And exactly what is your point. Check pesticide regulations and tests in Ca. Keep in mind that the government is hampered by understaffed resources and enforcement is weak as it will be with cannabis in a legal framework.

As the Bill to have the FDA regulate tobacco was only passed in June 2009 there is yet a long way to go and again the FDA is hampered by lack of resources. Look man, stop throwing up distorted information - post links and relative information that support your arguments. No legislation is perfect - it never has been and never will be. What should we do overthrow the government and introduce anarchy. Well while you do that why not vote to end prohibition?

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/12/nation/na-tobacco12

http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/default.htm


"Why is ANY regulation of this plant necessary?" It's called prohibition at the moment and based on your views you'd have it kept that way.

My point is exactly what you stated the government is incompetent and can not effectively enforce the laws on the books. Far too many examples of incompetent government to post links to all of them, but we seem to agree on this point in any event.

Making an active choice to sanction the immoral activities of the government is not the path I choose. Politics does make strange bedfellows, but I am not willing to jump into bed with the same group that has been trying to imprison this community for years.

Your government is "Hampered" by lack of resources and MJ has caused ZERO deaths in the last century, perhaps there are better things for NON PRODUCING government employees to do with their time than worry about a HARMLESS flower.

The ONLY potential benefit of Prop 19 that I see is a POSSIBLE domino effect where other states MAY follow. This potential benefit is DILUTED by the fact that other states already have MJ initiatives on the ballot and an active MJ reform community. WA, CO, OR and others will take this issue up IRRESPECTIVE of the Prop 19 vote.

Prop 19 will allow any person 21 and over in CA to posses 1oz, but the REAL state of affairs in CA is that possession of 1oz or less is already DECRIMINALIZED because NO ONE is spending a second in jail over an OZ or less.

There is nothing wrong with repealing bad law, but to argue that enacting bad law is a benefit to this community is disingenuous. Prop 19 did not have to create a new set of criminal penalties (smoking with a 20 year old, cultivation over 25', etc.), and asking this community to VALIDATE prison sentences for MJ related activity goes against everything OVERGROWING the world stands for.

Perhaps I do have some growing up to do, but I hope that never means approving government imprisonment of this community. Since I don't think it is wrong to grow or smoke, I don't think it is a good idea to imprison anyone over weed. The USA is morally bankrupt as well as financially bankrupt, trying to support the immoral regime with punitive taxation on a select group (weed smokers) is unjust.

I want weed to be available to all as god intended. We need to quit trying to control the lives of free born people. Alcohol prohibition ended and the country didn't collapse from people making home brew or bath tub gin. So if MJ is not a danger AND large scale operations that sell to Costco, Walmart, and 7/11 will have to meet the quality standards of the stores. Right now Walmart and Costco buy and sell tomatoes that go vine to plate and NEVER see a government inspector. Until such time as a danger can be proven to exist AND that danger is not manageable by the store or customer, the government should stay out of the stash box.

No jail for pot = NO vote on Prop 19.

 

[mullray]

My point is exactly what you stated the government is incompetent and can not effectively enforce the laws on the books. Far too many examples of incompetent government to post links to all of them, but we seem to agree on this point in any event.

Making an active choice to sanction the immoral activities of the government is not the path I choose. Politics does make strange bedfellows, but I am not willing to jump into bed with the same group that has been trying to imprison this community for years.

Your government is "Hampered" by lack of resources and MJ has caused ZERO deaths in the last century, perhaps there are better things for NON PRODUCING government employees to do with their time than worry about a HARMLESS flower.

The ONLY potential benefit of Prop 19 that I see is a POSSIBLE domino effect where other states MAY follow. This potential benefit is DILUTED by the fact that other states already have MJ initiatives on the ballot and an active MJ reform community. WA, CO, OR and others will take this issue up IRRESPECTIVE of the Prop 19 vote.

Prop 19 will allow any person 21 and over in CA to posses 1oz, but the REAL state of affairs in CA is that possession of 1oz or less is already DECRIMINALIZED because NO ONE is spending a second in jail over an OZ or less.

There is nothing wrong with repealing bad law, but to argue that enacting bad law is a benefit to this community is disingenuous. Prop 19 did not have to create a new set of criminal penalties (smoking with a 20 year old, cultivation over 25', etc.), and asking this community to VALIDATE prison sentences for MJ related activity goes against everything OVERGROWING the world stands for.

Perhaps I do have some growing up to do, but I hope that never means approving government imprisonment of this community. Since I don't think it is wrong to grow or smoke, I don't think it is a good idea to imprison anyone over weed. The USA is morally bankrupt as well as financially bankrupt, trying to support the immoral regime with punitive taxation on a select group (weed smokers) is unjust.

I want weed to be available to all as god intended. We need to quit trying to control the lives of free born people. Alcohol prohibition ended and the country didn't collapse from people making home brew or bath tub gin. So if MJ is not a danger AND large scale operations that sell to Costco, Walmart, and 7/11 will have to meet the quality standards of the stores. Right now Walmart and Costco buy and sell tomatoes that go vine to plate and NEVER see a government inspector. Until such time as a danger can be proven to exist AND that danger is not manageable by the store or customer, the government should stay out of the stash box.

No jail for pot = NO vote on Prop 19.

"My point is exactly what you stated the government is incompetent and can not effectively enforce the laws on the books. Far too many examples of incompetent government to post links to all of them, but we seem to agree on this point in any event." Yeah cheers for clarifying. There ya go then - you're arguing my case and point.

You have more twists than a snake. Regardless you're seriously outnumbered and while there is going to be the odd extremist nutjobl who can't see the smoke through the trees fortunately people like yourself are few and far between.

"I want weed to be available to all as god intended. We need to quit trying to control the lives of free born people. Alcohol prohibition ended and the country didn't collapse from people making home brew or bath tub gin." Two points, God didn't intend you to grow his herb under lights in a 10 by 10 tent. Correct me if I'm wrong but God didn't invent HID lighting, fans, artificially enriched CO2 environments and so on. Last time I checked that was man (apologies to woman).

And pal you do nothing but argue with ill informed information, flawed facts and half truths. Prohibition ended due to mob interests in controlling alcohol just as mob interests control the drug trade. Now where MJ is concerned you could try to argue otherwise but it'd fall on deaf ears for many.

We're done ---- this is getting tired and lame. Get on with your conspiracy theories, Utopian ideals and the rest of it. Vote No bro - that's your right. Keep trying to convince others why they should vote no - if nothing else your pitches are entertaining.

 

[binaryfission]

My point is exactly what you stated the government is incompetent and can not effectively enforce the laws on the books. Far too many examples of incompetent government to post links to all of them, but we seem to agree on this point in any event.

Making an active choice to sanction the immoral activities of the government is not the path I choose. Politics does make strange bedfellows, but I am not willing to jump into bed with the same group that has been trying to imprison this community for years.

Your government is "Hampered" by lack of resources and MJ has caused ZERO deaths in the last century, perhaps there are better things for NON PRODUCING government employees to do with their time than worry about a HARMLESS flower.

so do you use money? if so then you compromise and work with my government all the time.

These idiotic purely philosophical arguments that you and Jack continue to make are just asinine.

Real world conversation going on here, care to join? We are looking for pragmatic solutions, not new philosophical problems to be scared of.

 

[mullray]

Hydrosun, one little add in; you talk of Utopian ideals. Try this - Think Globally, Act Locally. Your vote for Prop 19 helps everyone else in the world. That'd be the poor in countries where the death sentence is implemented all too regularly for drug possession, that'd be the people in jails (typically from disenfranchised, poor communities) and that would be the most enlightened and Utopian thing to do, given reality. Or really are you just a self serving, selfish hypocrite who likes to portray a facade of enlightened and envisioned while really just having their own interests at heart -albeit using totally misinformed and flawed rationale to support such hypocrisy?

 

[JJScorpio]

So JJ tell me why this is a Yes vote Initiative? Anyone can get a medical.. Why is Prop 19 better for us?

Not everyone wants to go to a doc and lie. Not everyone wants records floating around that says they have an illness that they don't. People just want to be able to grow and smoke their own Cannabis in peace without worry off arrest or loss of employment.

Even if the Bill passes, people can just keep doing what they were doing beforehand. I think commercial people are afraid they are going to lose their tax free cash cow and would sac the freedom of other to continue.

If this allows some people to have peace in knowing they are now legal then I feel it should be passed. Anything right now is better than what they have. And I'm getting sick of listening to commercial people with their crazy excuses trying to cost these people the right to be legal for the first time in their lives....

 

[toasted1]

i think its funny all the ppl that are sayn there scared of the 5x5 and if i smoke with my 20 yo friend ill get busted
come the fuck on really ur 20yo freind is gonna say u passed them the joint? u need new freinds and the whole 5x5 thing they cant check every grower now with only a few thousand growers how the fuck do u think there gonna get the man power to check the 100,000 + new growers grows not only that u CAN have a 5x5 for show IF they ever show up there to explain the smell and have ur locked bedroom they have no right/prob cause to enter filled to the roof with plants

if this passes it opens a door they can never shut again
it will also b the biggest nail in the coffin of the war on drugs and put the fedral gov in the most awkward situation and they wont b able to laught off legalization as "those crazy internet trolls"

i have much respect for alot of the cali growers that oppose this but if u really think this only gonna effect cali u really got ur heads deep in ur asses

on a side note if ur in cali u might wanna get a realtors licence theres gonna b a housing boom in cali soon

stay safe
1

 

[nomaad]

1> If A police officer spots a bong on your table it is not probable cause for a search.

2> It will reduce the downward financial spiral associated with the legal fees incurred from being arrested.

1. unless they also see your kid's Cabbage Patch Kid on the floor.

2. unless you are arrested under some of the new provisions in P19.

 

[nomaad]

Not everyone wants to go to a doc and lie. Not everyone wants records floating around that says they have an illness that they don't. People just want to be able to grow and smoke their own Cannabis in peace without worry off arrest or loss of employment.

this is somewhat of a misconception. because of the wording of 215 you don;t have to lie. Do you sometimes smoke to help you sleep? Valid medical need. Its not about "illnesses" its about "conditions for which marijuana provides relief" (probably got the wording wrong)... Ever smoke because you are feeling anxious and need to chill out? Valid medical need.

I hear you about the employment thing, but neither occasional insomnia nor occasional anxiety are conditions that would threaten your job or be considered a pre-existing condition that could screw you out of healthcare. There are many other similar valid medical needs that don;t involve lying to your doctor or having a serious condition whereby you bleed from the eyes.

And saying that we're mooching off the med system, i believe, is untrue. Ganja is good medicine for the world if you choose to see it as such. I have rarely met a person for whom ganja is not good medicine, especially in the right situation. What if ganja is medicine on the same level as the occasional Advil? Does that make my medical excuse any less valid? I have minor headaches that ganja helps with. The crick in my neck feels better after I smoke. Not valid medicine?

Anyhow, I think almost every smoker I have ever met uses the plant medicinally sometimes, even if they more often just use it to get high.

No offense to those seriously ill patients who need it for more critical uses. I have made it my mission to supply any and all critical patients in my community with ganja at low or no cost, depending on need.

JJ: have you read the two long posts by Mr Dizzle and (i believe) vta, posted yesterday evening? I am very interested in your thoughts on them.

 

[JackTheGrower]

JJ that doesn't move me to vote yes.

I don't think it sways anyone.

Not that Prop 19 won't pass; just that we are voting on a really crappy law when we could fight for a great law.
I am open to work for 2012 as I have worked for 2010.

 

[Guest 88950]

...Anyone can get a medical.. Why is Prop 19 better for us?

it may not be better now but what happens if CMB clamps down on the doctors issuing Medical Recommendations of Cannabis.

right now its good for those who are protected under prop215 but what about those who dont have a legitimate illness or dont want to lie but want to just smoke for recreation purposes.

prop19 is better for them.

how is prop19 NOT better for the masses?

 

[JJScorpio]

I know I would never go to a doc to get permission to smoke Cannabis. I'm a very private person and find a lot of things to be no ones business but my own. I would rather grow and smoke illegally then to have people with copies of my paperwork with my business in it.

How long do people think the Govt is going to be this lax on the med laws if this new bill fails? I would imagine it's beginning to piss people off reading how everyone says "just go to a doc and tell him you have a headache", or go and say" I can't sleep"?

I would have to assume that a lot of "working class people" are getting sick of the tens of thousands of tax free dollars people are making while they are losing 33 percent of their income. Tax money is needed to build roads, support schools and other programs that are needed to keep the State running. Why should one person lose 33 percent of his 60, 000 while a grower pays 0 percent of 90,000? It's going to seperate people and cause unrest. I'm sure it's been a great ride for those that have been selling 60 dollar 1/8ths to sick people while paying no taxes whatsoever, but they can't expect the Govt to go along with this much longer. I know I like tax free money but I'm also realistic to know that there are things that are needed that are paid for through taxes that are important. And I also don't think that certain people should help when other don't.

 

[Shcrews]

how is prop19 NOT better for the masses?

^^prop 19 is NOT better because it will favor a big-business / big-government system....

open your fucking eyes people, if you care about the freedom of future generations, do not settle for this CORPORATE PLOY

 

[miltonchitlin]

JJ has a valid point about medical records floating around, I know of 3 collectives no longer in operation thanks to the DEA that had some of my records confiscated.

 

[Faraway]

25 sq ft? Isn't that the area that the 2 inch dia stock of the plant enters the ground or soil? Are we counting the underground roots, or the above ground branches in this 25 sq ft area? If so then it would be cubic ft. A 25 sq ft area would be the area that the stock of the plant takes up, like 2 sq inches. So that would be a lot of plants if one plant takes up 2 sq in. of area, right? We are talking about ground surface area, right? Just a thought.

 

[gaiusmarius]

i don't think it's so much about the anti tax, as it is about the anti regulation intended to monopolize the cannabis industry and the new cannabis related felonies it creates. i don't thin anyone minds having their profits taxed if that gives them legitimacy, but this seem to be heading towards a very few very big producers being given a monopoly to be in the cannabis business.

while all the talk about no more probable cause for smell, you might find the smell gives them entry with out a warrant to check up on your compliance level with the law. people worry that just as many will end up being sent to jail as now and as a result f the new money from this law they will have even more resources to go after cannabis related stuff. like smoking in public etc. instead of all of us having the right to sell cannabis if we want to and pay tax on our profit, this right will be limited to a few with the resources to bribe their way to a license.

on a side note, did you know that most money collected through federal income tax is spent on paying the interest on the national debt?

 

[igrowone]

i don't think it's so much about the anti tax, as it is abo
while all the talk about no more probable cause for smell, you might find the smell gives them entry with out a warrant to check up on your compliance level with the law.

my understanding is that police have a limited set of causes to enter a residence, hot pursuit of a suspect, destruction of evidence, etc.
i would think checking of compliance level doesn't fall under any of the rules police are supposed to operate by for entry into a residence without a warrant

 

[JackTheGrower]

Child endangerment?

 

[igrowone]

Child endangerment?

that of course is more problematic
still, that same standard applies with current laws, MJ + kids = problems
if you have kids, good odor control is probably a very good idea for the foreseeable future