ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[localhero]

milton.

i read the bill and im not stoked on what it says, i still think the bill is a bulshit backdoor attempt at commercializing and excluding the common man (woman) from the cali scene.

i still understand that californians under the facade of 215 are far better protected than they would be under 19 alone.

ill change my vote for these reasons:

1-people high up in the growing community that i respect greatly seem to believe that they can change and ammend the bulshit aspects of 19. maybe they know something i dont. im an isolated so cal outdoor grower.

2- it wont affect 215, so no matter what ill be growing up to and under federal min setencing.

3- at least its some sort of legality outside of med. god i hate saying that, 1 ounce is terrible. 25 ft is a sham. IF YOU CAN FIGHT AND DIE FOR THIS COUNTRY than you should be able to smoke and drink (and to the guy who doesnt think people under 25 should vote- they should damn well be able to vote at 18 too)

 

[JackTheGrower]

Why would anyone want to pass a law that would allow them to grow and smoke their own Cannabis when they could say piss on that Bill and get arrested and all the goodies that go with it?

Some of these arguments ae rediculous. Even with what this Bill is, you still have more than now. Did you ever think a lot of people just want to grow and smoke their own Cannabis? It's not about growing 20 pounds to a lot of people. It's about being legal.

It's like some people are having a tantrum. "If I can't grow as much as I want to, I don't want to grow any legally. It makes no sense....

Simply put we should have a right to grow all food , medicine and fibre.

That we are starting to limit what the people can grow so that Business can make money is the danger.


No one on this side of my screen is having any emotional problems.

It's not a Bill also.

So JJ tell me why this is a Yes vote Initiative? Anyone can get a medical.. Why is Prop 19 better for us?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I'm a micro grower (for safety reasons) who might not be a micro grower any more once this thing passes! (If you currently have a 10k+ grow you might think a 5x5 is a microgrow, but compared to my 4 sq feet of veg and flower, 25 sq feet is MASSIVE.)

Most of the "no" voters I've seen are the medium-time commercial growers and the hood-rat dealers who fear a loss of easy living.

Lot more people suffering under these prices and quality issues than there are that will suffer if they have to start working for a living. Sorry guys! Hope you enjoyed raping us for the last few decades.

4 sq ft?!?? Damn son my watch collection takes up more room than that.....

 

[Tom Hill]

I can fully appreciate the undecided vote Jack, sincerely. Last thing we need is patriotactesc bullshit scare tactics. Weigh it all up folks. But, please do weigh it up against what is in place now and not some hippyonic utopia. eg, you sell bud to a minor (or anyone for that matter) now you're fucked, you get compensated by a person of any age now who is a medicinal user and you should be covered. etc, etc, etc. Don't be duped by anyone, not me, not Denis, not anyone. Please do, at all times, have the welfare of cannabis in mind and you should be saluted imo. For me, the scale tilts heavily in favor of yes on this issue. Climbing in bed and getting friendly with the DEA, correctional facilities, police associations, dare, and peta, is not something I'm prepared to do, lol. Trust me, they are not anymore in the right on this than any other god damn issue. -T

 

[localhero]

the other crappy situation prop 19 introduces is the very real possibility of emboldening detractors of marijuana reform should it fail.

its like congress putting a bill, say, the patriot act, and then attaching a rider that includes more funding for flak jackets for our troops. a no vote on a bad bill would put everyone in the shitty position of also voting against flak jackets for our troops...

thats how i feel right now about prop 19.

 

[mrdizzle]

We’ll shall see how I vote come November. One shitty thing to think about is, perhaps it’s a stretch, but let’s just say legalization is asking a lil too much a lil too soon, this medical thing is really starting gaining acceptance.
Obama has a lil over 2 years left in office. Now lets say a republican wins in 2012, which is very likely, and decides he agrees a little more with Bush than he does with Obama. The Raids start all over again, no one’s safe, people invest time and money in the new marijuan world that’s all taken away, and in the end this whole threads was moot and we all lose.

 

[Tom Hill]

^^^^^ Then we can all say deja vu - Carter to Reagan and all the hell that followed. Don't let this opportunity pass folks, we've never been this close - not in our lifetimes. The medi-scene is being laughed at by congress thus far and so these raids will continue - jah only knows how bad it would get with a bit more encouragement. They require a much bigger shove in our direction and money in their pockets is just the trick as always. There are enough folks against us on this thing without having our own turn against us, we need every vote we can get. -T

 

[rives]

I believe that at some point, there is going to be a hell of a backlash against the way that the medical permitting is being done. Other states use it as a bad example of implementation, and we all know that it is a joke. I am continually reminded of the writer who chronicled his and his wife’s pursuit of cards. She wound up getting it for menstruation, and, when it was all done, he thought that he could have too. This was not the intent when 215 was implemented, and it pisses off a lot of people. It has done a good job of making cannabis more socially acceptable, but it is time for recreational usage to come into it’s own. I think it is a fantasy to hold out for everything that should be. Start small and get the camel’s nose under the edge of the tent.

 

[contra]

Personally, this bill looks like the best medicine around. Big business knocks the Cartels out of the playing field immediately, then the smalltime grower has all eternity to take back His plant via local legislation. The more pro cannibis voters bitch at eachother about which inevitable consequences of legalization to deal with first, the longer we will be waiting. Passing this bill will be like putting a fence around a field of landmines so that those mines can safely be cleaned up without unknowing travelers stepping on them. Unfortunatly the locals who were well versed at moving around the mines will have to step aside during the clean-up efforts. They will then be able to roam the same field without worrying about those damned mines!

 

[miltonchitlin]

So JJ tell me why this is a Yes vote Initiative? Anyone can get a medical.. Why is Prop 19 better for us?

Because it removes the required standard of care, meaning you won't have to renew your recommendation every year or purchase the optional card. All you'll have to do is be 21 or over.

If A police officer spots a bong on your table it is not probable cause for a search.

It will reduce the downward financial spiral associated with the legal fees incurred from being arrested.

I was in Todd Mikuriya's old office, they said they will be closed after November, I mentioned how sad, and they replied Todd would be happy his business ended this way. There's the real author of the most important part of prop 215. 'For any condition marijuana provides relief.'

 

[localhero]

Passing this bill will be like putting a fence around a field of landmines so that those mines can safely be cleaned up without unknowing travelers stepping on them. Unfortunatly the locals who were well versed at moving around the mines will have to step aside during the clean-up efforts. They will then be able to roam the same field without worrying about those damned mines!

or, voting on this prop is like finding a lottery ticket wedged into a pile of dog poo, do we end up with a winning number? or do we end up with shit on our hands and a stupid frown on our faces?

ill vote on this, but not because i want to be voting opposite of people who would have also voted no on 215. but because i have a glimmer of hope that this community will stand united to fix the bad aspects that will be born from it.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Because it removes the required standard of care, meaning you won't have to renew your recommendation every year or purchase the optional card. All you'll have to do is be 21 or over.

If A police officer spots a bong on your table it is not probable cause for a search.

It will reduce the downward financial spiral associated with the legal fees incurred from being arrested.

I was in Todd Mikuriya's old office, they said they will be closed after November, I mentioned how sad, and they replied Todd would be happy his business ended this way. There's the real author of the most important part of prop 215. 'For any condition marijuana provides relief.'

I don't accept your falling on your sword for JJ but I will honor your reply.

I believe California Cannabis Initiative and Jack's Initiative cover your concerns so that is a given to care for the "Little People."

Still don't you want the freedom to grow out 100 of your crossed to find the one to breed with as a private citizen?

Sounds fine to me!

 

[mullray]

You asked me to substantiate what I was saying about Prop 19 making more of this community criminals. Well that new law would set an age of 21, but 95% of this ICmag community (see very recent poll on the subject) started before 21. You seem to speculate that $1 an oz weed would be a bad thing for me personally, well it would not. I have held the extremest view that this plant is no different than tomatoes or strawberries grown by hobbyist. Sure you can get those things in a store with a sticker but you can also get them in parking lots hosting farmers markets.

The tomato and strawberry industries didn't need laws against the home gardener and neither do we.

I am not fear mongering about Prop 19, I am merely pointing out that it includes offensive language that would CRIMINALIZE the activity of many of the growers on this site. I understand that growing is already criminal, but Prop 19 is not seeking to REPEAL bad law. Prop 19 wants to replace the current IMMORAL scheme with a different IMMORAL scheme and it wants good people of this community to sanction the IMMORAL restrictions of Prop 19. Compromise on freedoms, liberties, and moral values destroys ones self respect.

My body my choice, if I prefer home grown to industrial that is my business.

Why does Prop 19 seek to make criminals out of the home gardener? Is a 10x10 tent industrial? Not by a long shot but it is 400% the allowable space under this bad proposal.

This is a RE-CRIMINALIZATION bill not a LEGALIZATION proposal.

It isn't perfect - no one is saying that but it's as perfect as we'll get for now. In a perfect world the sun would rise every day and everyone would be smiling. It isn't a perfect world. People under 21 will still be far better off in Cali than in any other State under these laws. It'll be looked at very quickly as being similar to underage drinking. More importantly Prop 19 will have a snowball effect legitimizing cannabis across the US and putting the heat on the DEA.

"My body my choice, if I prefer home grown to industrial that is my business." Cool, so do I and I'll be growing my own - prop 19 doesn't stop that - it facilitates legal growing and please don't raise the 25 argument. If you can't grow enough for yourself in that area than you must be smoking inhuman amounts of weed.

"Why does Prop 19 seek to make criminals out of the home gardener? Is a 10x10 tent industrial? Not by a long shot but it is 400% the allowable space under this bad proposal." Ah now I see - you're not talking about growing your own but your own little commercial grow for profit.

The tomato and strawberry industries didn't need laws against the home gardener and neither do we. You don't know what you're talking about. If you are selling produce you are regulated one way or the other. Tomato growers are subject to regulations. Produce sold to supermarkets is tested on a state by state basis. But more importantly let's talk tobacco because as with cannabis it is consumed by combustion so is the nearest relative model we can apply. You'll note the FDA now regulates tobacco!

 

[mullray]

or, voting on this prop is like finding a lottery ticket wedged into a pile of dog poo, do we end up with a winning number? or do we end up with shit on our hands and a stupid frown on our faces?

ill vote on this, but not because i want to be voting opposite of people who would have also voted no on 215. but because i have a glimmer of hope that this community will stand united to fix the bad aspects that will be born from it.

For sure this needs to be the case. One step at a time. When its legal it allows political process and progress at a legitimate level. There's no way it's perfect and I doubt anyone here has argued it is. It's the best we have for now and the best we have had since cannabis was outlawed. I should also add that its' great that you were open minded enough to turn around on this. And thanks to Tom for adding his thoughts to the debate. I agree we may not get another shot and for those of us here that are over the age of forty, many of us didn't think we'd ever get this shot. It's a gift horse for progress - don't look it in the mouth.

 

[karmical]

best stuff I've read on this site about 19, to bad some of the same fears are still around.

that dragonfly stuff, wow...

in 24 pages of reading, what jumps out at me most is I didn't know JoeSchmoe was in prison, no wonder I haven't seen him around, I knew he was close, but damn that guy doesn't belong behind bars.

I support 19 for completely different reasons than most, but mostly because I want to see just how far this thing goes and what will happen after Nov.

 

[Lone Wolf]

 

[mullray]

Lol.... Love it!

 

[Hydrosun]

Yes but when you rent or lease you do own that property. Prop 19 seems to say that your ownership rights are re-assigned to the property owner prime when it comes to your Cannabis Freedom.

There is little point for me to debate legal aspects of how the law will be interpreted because I am but a Medical Person who still can't grow in the Sun but, have a read of that section quoted below and tell me what you think.


I do feel our "Cannabis Freedom" is a tainted experience under Prop 19

The very least we need to do is understand what we are voting for. That we will hand this Law to our Children.

It's very important.

I don't have any problem with landlords being able to decide what types of activities occur on their land. As the bill states approval of the owner of the property is necessary to grow. This makes sense because landlords have the right not to rent to people with pets.

I personally would not have a prohibition against growing in a house I rented to someone, and I also rent to people with pets, but I choose not to rent to cigarette smokers.

Freedoms are absolute a landlord can not be free while at the same time forced to have his property used in a way contrary to his will.

These are tough economic times most landlords will not turn away good tenants and house plants are way less damaging to a property than kids and pets so I doubt the home gardener will have trouble renting a home in CA.

 

[Hydrosun]

It isn't perfect - no one is saying that but it's as perfect as we'll get for now. In a perfect world the sun would rise every day and everyone would be smiling. It isn't a perfect world. People under 21 will still be far better off in Cali than in any other State under these laws. It'll be looked at very quickly as being similar to underage drinking. More importantly Prop 19 will have a snowball effect legitimizing cannabis across the US and putting the heat on the DEA.

"My body my choice, if I prefer home grown to industrial that is my business." Cool, so do I and I'll be growing my own - prop 19 doesn't stop that - it facilitates legal growing and please don't raise the 25 argument. If you can't grow enough for yourself in that area than you must be smoking inhuman amounts of weed.

"Why does Prop 19 seek to make criminals out of the home gardener? Is a 10x10 tent industrial? Not by a long shot but it is 400% the allowable space under this bad proposal." Ah now I see - you're not talking about growing your own but your own little commercial grow for profit.

The tomato and strawberry industries didn't need laws against the home gardener and neither do we. You don't know what you're talking about. If you are selling produce you are regulated one way or the other. Tomato growers are subject to regulations. Produce sold to supermarkets is tested on a state by state basis. But more importantly let's talk tobacco because as with cannabis it is consumed by combustion so is the nearest relative model we can apply. You'll note the FDA now regulates tobacco!

Well I'll bite. Since tobacco was NOT ALLOWED to be regulated by the FDA until last year AND the FDA has made ZERO changes in cigarettes in the year it has had its regulatory power, then I can assume that FDA regulation has had ZERO benefit. And more importantly I can assume that since the country kept trucking during the couple hundred years of UNREGULATED tobacco, that UNREGULATED MJ will not harm the community.

Tobacco related deaths are huge yearly and the tobacco companies add thousands of chemicals and adulterants to their product and then nicely package it for sale in 7/11s. If someone wanted their weed sold in Walmart, 7/11, or Costco I could see the need for packaging but I'm sure growers and stores can work out packaging without government help.

You are just completely wrong if you think tomatoes are inspected by the gvt. There are regulations about how much chemicals and the like you spray on your crops but there are no police checking the tomatoes or making sure that the farmer doesn't have more than 25' of tomatoes. If the US Government had any ability to control food quality we wouldn't have e-coli outbreaks every week.

Why is ANY regulation of this plant necessary?

 

[Anti]

Why is ANY regulation of this plant necessary?

Because you won't get non-cannabites to vote for something that makes it legal after 80 years of propaganda that it leads to rape, murder, hard drugs, lack of motivation, terrorism, etc. without offering them some reason to believe in it. Taxation and keeping it away from children are things that are necessary to get this thing passed.

Once passed, you can work with your LOCAL regulators to increase the size of the grow, ease restrictions, etc.