I no longer believe Broad Mites cause DUDDING

[Weird]

Regardless of where you live these fungus and molds are become more prevalent and dangerous.

Roundup and fungicides are causing them to mutate into more resistant diseases and ecological degradation is allowing it to spread faster.

Gardening techniques that may have worked in the past might stop working because of this, might have to tighten up practices to keep in step with it.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I did some other things to that plant as well. I flooded it with a nutrient mix and 2 ml per gallon of 6% bleach. This was followed with longer dry cycles between waterings.

 

[Weird]

http://www.google.com/patents/US20150056169

Trichoderma asperellum to Remediate Phytophthora ramorum-Infested Soil
US 20150056169 A1
Abstract
Despite efforts of eradication and sanitation, Phytophthora ramorum persists in the United States and has been a problem in commercial nurseries since 2001. Detection in a nursery immediately causes the nursery to be under quarantine until the P. ramorum can be proven to be eradicated. Treatment with the biological control agent Trichoderma asperellum showed promise in laboratory results to remediate P. ramorum-infested potting soil. Sixteen T. asperellum isolates were screened, found to have variable mycoparasitic activities, and further tested in natural field settings. Field plots having P. ramorum-infested soil were treated with T. asperellum, a chemical and two different commercial biological control products and compared to non-treated infested soil. After 8 weeks, P. ramorum populations were not detected in the soil treated with T. asperellum isolate 04-22 showing that T. asperellum isolate 04-22 could remediate soils infested with P. ramorum under natural field conditions.

 

[Weird]

if you water with ground water that could be a source

 

[Weird]

http://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...ns-strain-G-41-fungicide/plant-fungal-disease

MRI Listed and EPA registered, this product contains two beneficial microbial fungi that deliver an extended range of pathogen control:

Trichoderma harzianum strain T-22
Plus the newly developed Trichoderma virens strain G-41


The fungi in RootShield PLUS help eliminate damaging fungal pathogens by colonizing plant root systems and by boosting the biological diversity of the rhizosphere. This unique product provides 3 months of preventive control for Phytophthora, Rhizoctonia, Pythium, Fusarium, Thielaviopsis, and Cylindrocladium.


Suggested Uses: For control and prevention of major fungal pathogens and resultant diseases on greenhouse and nursery vegetables, herbs, ornamentals, fruits, conifer tree seedlings, various trees, legumes, oil seeds and peanuts. One application will last for approximately 12 weeks, and can be used with a 0-hr REI. This product can be used in conjunction with certain other fungicides, see label and other online resources for details.

Environment: Aquaponics, Container Plants, Crops, Greenhouse, Grow Room, HoopHouses, Houseplants, Hydroponics, Interiorscapes, Orchards & Vineyards, Outdoors

Application Rate:
This is a dry, granular product that can be mixed at the following rates:

1.5 - 3 lbs. to 1 cubic yd of soil mix
Four(4) - 40 lb. bags to 100 cubic yd of soil mix

 

[Weird]

apparently once a plant is infected it cannot be removed from the plant

 

[Ichabod Crane]

apparently once a plant is infected it cannot be removed from the plant

Please clarify. Is this with the dudding fungus or the inoculant you mentioned.

 

[Weird]

Simply put the phytophthora mold that he reports having is known as blight here, very common, getting worse every year with imbalance, and personally what I thought to be my issue here (I simply called it blight)

Everything I have read so far says an infected plant MUST be culled.

There are several varieties but their payload is so similar to most peoples issues that I firmly believe it to be a primary culprit.

Fusarium and nematode infections also have parallel symptoms and can all act as catalysts to each other. That is a sucking burrowing insect can leave your plant vulnerable.

The big difference seems that fusarium infected plants don't necessarily mean you can't salvage the plant or get uninfected cuts off of it, wherein the phytophthora infected plants (tissue infected) do not have the same prospect.

 

[iTarzan]

Weird in the link you posted it noted that phytophthora that infects the roots stays in the root zone. There was one that did not grow in the root zone but infected leaves or stems.

The one in the root zone could probably be cloned out.

 

[Weird]

perhaps, here is another blurb regarding general practice - seems to be the same for them all. maybe I am wrong

remember the ones that are most likely fucking up plants are the species that attack cucumbers and other things here, which is rampant in these parts. Really bad.

http://extension.psu.edu/pests/plan...ts/phytophthora-root-rot-on-woody-ornamentals


Penn state extension
Management

Because Phytophthora usually stays associated with infected plants, a very important reason why it is dispersed long distances is through the shipment of infected plants. Therefore when new plants are purchased, keep those plants together and observe them carefully for any symptoms. Do no co-mingle plants from different sources so that if Phytophthora is detected, you will be able to determine its source. DO NOT recycle the irrigation water for these plants until you are certain they do not harbor Phytophthora . (If Phytophthora ramorum is detected in plants, ALL plants in that shipment and all plants sharing recycling water will be ordered destroyed.)
Grow resistant cultivars in any areas known to harbor Phytophthora . See the list below.
Disease prevention must be the primary goal since no chemicals cure a Phytophthora -infected plant.
Remove and destroy infected plants.

 

[StudenTeacher]

student can you post some pics of your symptoms?
Also are you growing in organic soil?

I'm growing in coco with the GH 6/9 recipe. Also I use silica, bcuzz grow, bcuzz bloom, Epsom salt, multi zen enzyme, ful power fulvic, roots accelerator, aspirin, and now chitosan. I have the caps bennies, regalia, actinovate, and chitosan that I was planning on using for this run, though maybe not the actinovate because I'm pretty sure the same stuff is in caps bennies. Duds made me switch from rockwool Hugo blocks to coco a while back.

This time was a different dud then I had before, though there were some similarities to the previous, which isn't surprising, considering how many diseases the plants were infected with this time. I have some pics of old duds I can track down, otherwise all I have from this run I posted on this thread.

I saved the bottle of hygrozyme that I thought was responsible for the sudden die off of the ladies, because I want to do some tests with it this run on a few extra plants. It could have been coincidental that I used it before the plants went down, or it could be that the roots were already so fucked that any enzyme would have done the same. After looking at lots of pics online, I can see now the verticillium symptoms and the 'plant destroyer' (phytophthora) symptoms. This is different than previous duds from root aphids, broad mites, and the fusarium I had at my old place. My old pics show ra damage and probably some with broad damage. Also the tiny leaf dud where the plants grow really green and nice, but slow, and they don't get big fan leaves, and the nodes are extremely close together ( maybe nematodes?). Yes I think I've seen about every type of dud now. The j1 I posted earlier is a classic example of the most popular dud I think, but there's too much going on with it to say what made it look like that exactly.
I'll try to get pics up soon.

 

[StudenTeacher]

The phytophthora seems to be associated with wet mediums. The link on here and ones I found all mention it. Coco, hydro and way overwatered whatever.

You use coco. I am a Promix user. My medium is never overwatered. Some symptoms are similar and some are not.

I agree that there are multiple things causing duds.

I have had some things get back to normal. Some died and some I tossed. I used a shotgun approach so I can't say what worked. Since they all didn't recover maybe nothing I did worked.

I am doing a seed run to see if it is my environment doing it or my practices. I figure if it happens to seed plants then it isn't an issue with the clones themselves it is what is happening to them.

I read about the phytophthora for a while last night and I'm feeling less worried about it now. This last run was my worst ever in regards to laziness and the coco was in plastic poly grow bags, sitting in saucers on the floor, no perlite at the bottom, and sometimes they'd sit in the runoff for a couple hours. I used drip clean to prevent salt buildup and changed the saucers when they looked salty. The big room was treated normally, just the small room I got extremely lazy on.

I think with new pots and new coco, the phytophthora won't be a problem. It's probably something I tracked in from outside, or maybe it was in the coco already and the over watering set it off. Usually my drainage is good.

 

[StudenTeacher]

One thing I should mention is heat. Firstly, heat treating the area to 120 degrees works to kill some of this shit. What, I can't say exactly, but it has shown to be effective in my garden, and close friends gardens (real life friends, not online). One friend has had 4-5 successful grows now after dudding out for a few years. It also worked for me in the past, but since I moved and started over, and had a solid year of no duddage, I haven't done it. Without plants in the room I basically would do 6-8 hours of 120+ degrees, sometimes getting up to 130ish. With plants in the room, it takes about 2 hours to get it to 120 and I left it there for 30 min. With fans off this is safe for plants. Oscillating fans will Fry your leaves for sure at this temp. All of the info I've read mentions solarization as preventative against the molds and fungi. Indoors we can solarize the whole room and replace the grow medium to beat this shit. I first read this info from RetroGrow in regards to killing broad mites.

I used a plethora of miticides to kill the broads, but stopped at the flip on everything but spinosad and pyrethrin, both of which aren't very badass against bm( not miticides). I feel that the heat was important the final 2-3 weeks and helped us to finish off the crop with mediocre buds, of mediocre weight, which is better than a full blown dud. Three weeks from harvest shit started going bad, and I heat treated the room maybe 4-5 times and barely pulled it off, but it was apparent the high temps had a positive effect 100% I know there was more in there than broads for sure, but not sure what exactly. This experience is from a 48 light warehouse grow I did a couple years ago. We took over a building from a guy that split because he was having problems he couldn't resolve. Three 16 light rooms. Since we were only hitting a lb a light of mediocre quality, the dude that hired me was over it and pulled the plug, and thinks I'm retarded of course. Funny thing is, I thought the same of his previous grower. How could anyone fail financially with 50 lights I wondered? Now I get it. I was supposed to give the guy a lb Light and keep the rest. Since the building was infested already we split it 2/1 in his favor and he didn't have money for round two bills and living expenses for his family. Failed dreams aren't as bad as a failed reality, and I felt the sting for sure, but every thing that goes wrong is one more thing I can learn to fight in the future. So, it was back to the garage with my six kw, but since I've added 16 more, and there will be hundreds more to come. I've beat this shit before, and invited it back with lazy growing practices. It'll be beat again.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Avid can cause plant issues, especially if used while lights on or in bright sunlight, I haven't seen it, but been told to be weary of it, this was on commercial vegetables not flowers so take it for what it's worth. Killed the broad mites on the peppers which were reaking havoc on them.

Avid is actually more effective when sprayed with the lights on, its trans laminar action operates more efficiently at temperatures above 80F, you just can't add anything else to the mix, and must use a gentle wetting agent such as Cocowet or fragrance free liquid soap.

 

[StudenTeacher]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Heat. This time my ac went off for a solid day, maybe more, and that's right when shit went downhill. It didn't get hotter than mid 90's at most, and the leaves were absolutely fried. Not crispy, that happened in the day or two that folllwed, but definitely dead and yellowish. I think this had to do with the phytophthora thriving in hotter conditions. I think the phytophthora is a new one for me. I do believe high temps will work on the fusarium and verticillium though.

 

[StudenTeacher]

Bleach. At my old place I found I couldn't root clones anymore without bleach. There was chlorine in the city tap water but it wasn't enough. I added 1/4 tsp per five gallons of water/nute solution, and the little fuckers would root. I then just kept the same ratio throughout the grow and the red stopped showing in the roots. I'm on the fence with physan 20 right now vs a benny bacteria cocktail and brewing some tea.

My plants from last round revegged with a vengeance. These were not from the dud room, but likely were infected with the same shit since I was going back and forth, from room to room, for 2+ months. I bleached the medium for a week straight, then caps bennies, regalia, and one application of actinovate (before I bought caps product), all the while adding chitosan to the mix at 1tsp per gal. Clones all rooted in ten days and look healthy with bright white roots. Roughly 20 varieties. I soaked fresh cuts in physan 20 for an hour and then used caps bennies on the rockwool cubes and watered with bennies and rhizoronic and no food, bennies and roots accel when using light feed. Obviously no bleach or anything added with bennies.

 

[StudenTeacher]

Avid is actually more effective when sprayed with the lights on, its trans laminar action operates more efficiently at temperatures above 80F, you just can't add anything else to the mix, and must use a gentle wetting agent such as Cocowet or fragrance free liquid soap.

This is mostly good advice. The stomata must be open. I spray everything with lights on nowadays. Turn off most of them, or use some incandescent bulbs if it's a smaller garden. Then after spraying, I leave light in there for 20 min or so and turn em off. Turning most lights off will prevent burning of photosensitive plants, while they are still 'awake'. I'm obviously no expert, but I hope this method works better than the previous, which was spraying mostly in the dark under a green led light. This way you can mix whatever you want with the avid with no worries. I usually add another pesticide at random when I spray avid, usually Spinosad or pyrethrin, though I like to keep forbid separate from avid and spray it a few days later. I've been using indicate 5 as a wetting agent lately as opposed to cocowet or original dawn dish soap and things have been working out fine, thouhti can't say if it works any better. Kontos watered into clones and at flip.

 

[Lochinvar]

I threw everything out, moved, started over from seed in a new location and now duds again.. 6-7 weeks into flower before signs show and damn right I'll ride out the last couple weeks so I can at least harvest some shitty buds and make hash. I got just over two lbs of marketable buds off of six kw and hopefully a thousand bucks in hash. Yes that sounds bad but it also beats working in a restaurant. A few buds, and some shitty hash, and I can afford to eat. Thank god the big room didn't go down. I just ripped out all of my wood tables, took down the panda plastic from the walls, replacing all fans, and I will paint the walls, and physan the cement floor. No more wood table stands, just cinder blocks and plastic tables. Just spent 10 grand on ac and replaced all carbon filters. I've been growing for roughly half of my life and had my first crop 18 years ago. I could give a shit less about hyped up genetics, or trying to save a strain. I've grown about 25 -30 seed packs and about 150 clones from here in socal, and all but 3-4 plants turned out to produce a marketable product. Sure some turns out better than others, but it all sells. If you think I'm fucking around here, you are mistaken. I'm doing the best I can with what I have. I'm learning more every day. The problem before was I didn't know shit about anything, as I didn't have any real problems the first ten years or so, and I didn't realize I was a complete amateur.
If you have something to contribute, then help us out. If you think you're hot shit, well, then, you remind me of the 19 year old version of myself. I got laid more when i was 19 so maybe it's not all bad, lol. This is a big deal for a lot of us, and you come around here talking shit? How about trying to offer a real solution. The shit is usually in the environment, water, or grow medium, then it gets into the plants. Throwing away plants is great, but preventing them from becoming infected is even better.

you are right. not tryin to be a d- bag. ill stick to topics i know about

 

[Lochinvar]

Judging by your using the term "mutters" I am going to assume you grow several kilometers outside the borders of California. We have a clone trade here that unfortunately tends to be inhabited by shady "clone guys" who never flower their stock. These tend to be gardens that magnetize and spread pathogens around into everyone's garden like a discount special hooker.

This isn't a problem that is isolated to here but it is where it has first been documented. There are several theories surrounding the cause but seemingly nobody can lay down facts, I am under the impression it is a syndrome rather than a specific pathogen, but it is real I've seen it, not something that can be attributed to grower error.

just wonderin what the facts are too. sorry for my shitty post

im in norcal.... havent bought or recieved a clone in many years. i do my own peace and good luck with this strange problem

 

[StudenTeacher]

you are right. not tryin to be a d- bag. ill stick to topics i know about

No hard feelings man. This shit can get emotional sometimes, maybe I was a bit harsh on ya.