TBH I don't think the triggers and unknown, rather their is an overlap of the same symptoms from similar diseases including a few very common fungal infections, some of which are systemic and cannot be removed from the plant, some of which can be removed and the plant recovered.
IMHO these infections are becoming far more prevalent due to many changing condition including but not limited to, massive increase of virulence and population of pathogens in the environment due to modern agricultural practices, the adaptation of non sterile gardening methods without a strong understanding of pathogens and pests, most especially organic soils including poor protocols in regards to genetics management.
I had some duding last run in LOS, did not change a thing, just used some EM-1 and mycostop, don't have final numbers yet but looking like I got close to a gram per watt this run, still did very well last run even though I had duds. No refined chitosan or salicylic acid though I do use aloe and insect frass. I did use some regalia in veg to be proactive, it is made from japanese knotweed, I did not see any visual causation from its use. I did not do a side by side trial. I do get blight outdoors on my vegetables and will be using it alternate beds to see the results.
I culled the duds at harvest, after I saw they were fucked up I decided to leave them to see if I could salvage the situation. I could not. I scrubbed the genes since they were easily reacquired.Sure, I harvested 30% glue with dudding...
No duds, very happy with results, some of the cultivars I ran this run I have run before, some for years if not decades.But you have no duds now or are you just harvesting dud fire?
It is.Oh, also, the quality must be top shelf for gram per watts to really be a significant number.
I dont get those kind of differentials in resin when yield varies unless I fuck something up.I personally find harvesting 1 per watt of 15% to be far less desirable than 0.4g per watt of 25%
1 per of prime tops, i didnt weight the duds I didnt oil them I tossed themMy dudded glue at 30% dry weight was 0.5/w with a 10% cull on flower lookin like 20%. 6% on the terps. It woulda been 0.7-0.8/w had I not culled subprime stuff. Woulda been 1.2/w if I included bottom flowers.
the duds I had were stunted plants that never put out weight or proper resin/terpsActual duds look like nothing I've seen before, and I cycled through all the bugs and rots over the last decade. My duds look perfect to the untrained eye
TBH I don't think the triggers and unknown, rather their is an overlap of the same symptoms from similar diseases including a few very common fungal infections, some of which are systemic and cannot be removed from the plant, some of which can be removed and the plant recovered.
IMHO these infections are becoming far more prevalent due to many changing condition including but not limited to, massive increase of virulence and population of pathogens in the environment due to modern agricultural practices, the adaptation of non sterile gardening methods without a strong understanding of pathogens and pests, most especially organic soils including poor protocols in regards to genetics management.
I had some duding last run in LOS, did not change a thing, just used some EM-1 and mycostop, don't have final numbers yet but looking like I got close to a gram per watt this run, still did very well last run even though I had duds. No refined chitosan or salicylic acid though I do use aloe and insect frass. I did use some regalia in veg to be proactive, it is made from japanese knotweed, I did not see any visual causation from its use. I did not do a side by side trial. I do get blight outdoors on my vegetables and will be using it alternate beds to see the results.
I wouldn't consider the dud problem being fixed not having it one run.... that could just be good luck. My duds will sometimes effect 20% of a crop, sometimes 10% and sometimes none, there doesnt seem to be any relation, these plants are never right next to each other or anything obvious. It definitely prefers some strains over others though, in my case Stardawg, bubba, Wifi#3 and casey jones.
I dont think all dudding is the same either; My duds grow normal and healthy weight, however they lack resin and terps and are non smokable. Nice big buds though. I've also seen only half of a plant dudded a few times. This seems more rare than the whole plant though. Others are experiencing dudding that has a big effects on yield, I haven't had that problem.
Interesting stuff, Weird! Can't say I disagree with you; nice change, eh? Have you noticed with duds in your scene that often you will get huge weights, but that the resin and terps are much less? I've seen this and it has me scratching my head.
Aloe is something I need to explore. I can't totally say chitosan or aspirin is solving the problem. It probably helps to some extent. I have learned to recognize duds in veg now so for the last flower run or two I've been dud free. I have a couple of duds in veg that I keep for testing purposes. One type in particular I can't seem to get undudded via the techniques I talked about earlier.
The duds I've had in the past have been amazingly healthy-looking and have given great density and weight; they just lack much upward growth in veg and the usual resin/terps in flower. After a normal cure they totally lack smell/flavor. I never did tests on the THC levels. I pretty much just composted them.
I talked with a university botanist and they suggested that this might be epigenetic for that reason: it seems that only some aspects of 'health' are adversely affected, as if one specific gene is somehow being deactivated. She noted that 'dudding' has also been documented in tomatoes, but that this is an as-yet undefined condition.
She said the way to find out was to do analysis of the RNA.. and that sort of research is getting beyond my ability to really grasp, so I just told her to contact me if/when she wanted to explore that.
I agree with you about loose organic practices playing into it. Are there many cases of dudding with hydro or chem growers?
In the field you need to be able to come up with anecdotal solutions to solve problems, so I don't get stuck on lack of certain data.
Now to preface I never had a dud before last run. I have had plants that under performed, but that isn't duding, I can go into further detail as to why but don't want to get sidetracked.
The bottom line is, duding was a phenomenon that I had not experienced (that i know of, I may have had a nonperforming plant that was a dud run before but had attributed it to grower error)
HOWEVER, since I started going full no till in my flower, if not before that I had either abandoned proper methodology or never refined certain processes for best compatibility in my veg.
Basically it didn't matter how shitty my starts where, they always came around to finish very nicely. The last couple years from cloning to flower I was taking seriously sub par condition of my plants.
The plants in flower that duded where not growing like the others, they where showing the dud signs, and I had taken them from plants before I flipped them and they struggled shortly after cloning.
Now because there is already information about duding out there, and because it seemed most likely to be fungal due to my veg and other bad horticultural practices that I had been getting away with for some time.
As a field diagnostician I can simply put the potential issues into an array and make and educated guess as to which area is most likely the issue and treat it as such and gauge the result.
I tried to revive the duds last round with salasylic acid, activonate and insect frass, but got little favorable responses, but based on physiological responses, and the selective nature, it seemed most likely fungal (specific strains, not all plants some plants never effected) of compromised plants exposed to pathogens in shitty veg conditions.
I did not want to nuke everything and start over, mostly because I will never know what the problem really was and I will never learn to deal with that problem if it occurs again.
I applied EM-1 and Mycostop in my veg and to my flower, veg responded (plenty of anecdotals) visually so I decided to flower in all the same containers with cuts that seemed vigorous and not from the genes that expressed already.
I did research some of the common pests and pathogens to get an idea of what could be causing the issue and how they effect organisms in a given environment.
Frostqueen and Wierd I think it is a combination of everything.
FQ that is why I focused on making perfect conditions. A factor I didn't mention is light. I have went to better veg lighting. I am wondering if healthy plants are fine under CFL or T5 but old strains, post problem plants need better quality light. I am using a 400w metal halide for veg now.
Bongstar my yields were crap. No bud density at all and no smell, taste and weak potency. Even a 25% yield was worthless.
Bongstar when you root cuttings of your duds to they root in the normal timeframe?
One thing I noticed with our dudding problem, is that we stopped using mycos about the same time it started to really become a problem. So we have started using mycos again, and now the roots and plants are much happier and dense. These pictures in this post the plants got mycos there last transplant going into final containers, but not whole time they were vegging.
Also have started using asprin and chitosan about once a week, not at same time. And gonna try mycostop once in early veg and once at flip I think. Was also thinking about using EM-1 to help get my soil going, I use neem meal, crab meal and kelp meal with no time letting the soil "cook", (the buildasoil/clackamas recipe)- thinking the em1 will help getting that process going quicker.
Current round is at 57 days, looks like 1 stardawg plant in there is dudding a few branches;
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Regular branch on same plant:
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I should mention i'm not 100% that top pic is a dud, however I have a feeling it will only get worse and it already has noticeably less smell/terps than the healthier branches.