I no longer believe Broad Mites cause DUDDING

[Piff Rhys Jones]

interesting because of all the times I gotten blight outdoors it never killed a whole plant

more than one variety and in many host plants they do not kill the whole plant

What stage of flowering did you notice it? And how long after did you chop?

I've seen it many many times, with symptoms presenting themselves from first week of flower, even earlier often, but also sometimes not until late in flower.

Obviously when symptoms arise later on the likelihood of entire plant death is lower. But when it appears early on in flowering, prognosis ain't good in my experience. I tend to try and salvage what I can but have left an entire plant and watched it succumb.

I've also seen it kill a single branch early on in flower but leave the rest of the plant alone FWIW, but the affected branch went gray and died due to lack of water. Duds seem to get the water just fine which is why I think fusarium is a misdiagnosis.

Peace

 

[Ichabod Crane]

are people who use systemic fungicides having the same issues? seems like alot of dirt guys up in here ...

I used eagle twenty at flowering and in veg. Still had it after the treatment.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I have a dud plant right now. It is in veg and displays the broken hanging down branches. I can look at it if someone has something they want to ask about it.

 

[Hammerhead]

What people use as there medium was never an issue from what I remember . There popping up in everything...

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I use coco coir for mine.

 

[Weird]

Having thought about it in light of my particular situation, the tell tale sign and visual cues that express in some strains and not in others has me thinking that magnesium uptake is being effected by whatever is going on, which is effecting strains that have higher needs for it.

It is the first problem I see and it does effect cell wall thickness, so perhaps the suspected fungal pathogen first immobilizes or effects magnesium availability and plant with a high need for it, subsequently generate thinner walled cells making infection easier.

If this happens in the root zone it could be the one two punch that is effecting the OGs, glue etc.

As I have done things like remove silica from my routine, and saw no ill effect, I continued to rationalize away the use of even time proven methodology and parts of my IPM because I was really relying on my LOS containers to fix and problems going into it anyway.

there are a number of papers that describe what fusarium immobilizes, food for thought at least. One showed it locking up manganese iirc

reading bores me tbh

 

[toxic hippie]

to anybody who is using chitosan oligosaccharide... are you using in veg and flower? ive got 2 kilos of it and my plants are loving it atm. just wondering if i can use it in flowering

ive been having great success with aspirin in veg only. ive only been getting 2-3 small whack looking buds per 4k room.

 

[toxic hippie]

thanks lux

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I have a plant in veg that I have prayed with eagle twenty and abamectim. I also watered till heavy run off withe 2 ml per gallon of 6% bleach and dunked with 25 ml per gallon bayer advanced tree and shrub after the bleach. This is after watering for 6 weeks daily with 1g per gallon chitosan. Finally after all that I watered only when the pot was damn near bone dry.

After all that the plant shows signs of dudding. It has the broken branches at the stem. It also has a million dead fan leaves from the drying out I gave it.

I water with jacks 5-12-26, calcium nitrate, drip clean, potassium silicate, and phosphoric acid. PHed to 5.7-6.0.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I should also mention that I have no visible insect damage to the plant. I did have thirps for about a week but they were not on this plant.

 

[StudenTeacher]

Allcropsolutions apparently sent my results to the wrong email Addy, so there was a bit of a delay. Here's what they found.

Interestingly enough, the one labeled s-1( J-1, maybe my writing was messy?) doesn't mention oxysporum. The J1 was a classic dud and the dudding was a slow process. The Skywalker went down hard and fast after the hygrozyme incident. Maybe seriously injuring the roots with the old hygrozyme allowed the pathogens to take hold. In my short reading on pseudomanas syringae it is mentioned that it's known as a weak pathogen and usually affects only plants with a weakened immune system. I only read about it for an hour, but I didn't see any evidence of this pathogen in my plants. Maybe as I learn more about it I'll be able to connect the dots, or maybe it was there all along and waited until the plants were already fucked before it started causing problems as well. I saw a fight as a teen where a dude got beat up bad, and while he was laying on the ground, battered and bloody, other people came out of the woodwork(pussies, weaklings, opportunists, etc) and kicked him while he was already down and clearly beaten. The dude on the ground was probably strong enough to fight off the weaklings, but since he was already injured he had no defence against them. Getting kicked enough while you're down may certainly render one incapacitated, if they survive at all.

I sent the package last week to nematodes inc, and my check was cashed on Friday. They wanted payment up front. Allcropsolutions wants payment when they give results.

 

[whadeezlrg]

Has anyone here undudded a dudded plant yet? Meaning, taken a clone of a dud and restored it to health? I have 3 duds I've been working with in veg, and they look like they've finally undudded after 3 subsequent clone generations and chito treatments... but I haven't flowered them yet. Their vigor seems to have been restored. I'm still skeptical though. I'm going to flower them in #5 pots off to the side in a few weeks to check.

I've recovered dudded plants just by cloning out of it and keeping the veg plants/moms healthy for the duration, only keep the clones that root quickly and start growing immediately...and then clone a few generations away from those while meeting the same criteria...it may just be causing the duddism to go dormant but either way, I've gotten dudds to recover, although it takes a while; and is really only worth it if it is the only means of preserving a certain cultivar.

 

[Weird]

Some things I have noticed as I went form sterile, to transitional to organics to recycled organics

different strains have different nutritional requirements because of evolution and the effects of environmental inputs on all components thereof

for example, strains that came from high temps regions have acclimated to soils where microbiology that thrives in those conditions is dominant, thus the sativas I ran this summer couldn't give a fuck about the microbiological imbalance caused by temperature ranges.

some strains that need a spectrum of microbiology that thrive in lower temps (mid 70's and below) show deficiencies when in living soil outside that temperature range

the simple reality is that different microbiology immobilize and mobilize organic matter differently, some may not attack a plant directly but simply tie up specific resources that a specific strains need required amounts to thrive.

for example a plant wiht high magnesium and maganese requirements will have thin cell walls and less robust growth, this could be the soft spot where insects take advantage allowing for even worse pathogens exposure.

in certain temperatures the soil microbiology that lends to optimal mobilization of these resources thrives and in others it simply does not

not that this is all inclusive but just to show how subtle relationships in the environment articulate to an organisms over all health

 

[billbob]

Studenteacher - you ever get the nematode results back?

 

[StudenTeacher]

Nothing yet. I promise I'll post them for everyone to see as soon as I get em in

 

[prptualyGROWing]

I joined this cooperative about 18 months ago during which the garden was having major issues. It has been a nightmare trying to figure out what has been destroying these ladies. Absolutely worthless pot being harvested for a little over a year.

Finally, after confirming BM infestation, once a week treatment with kontos, forbid, and a couple others I would rotate in here and there this garden is back on track and you would never know they had BM.

I cannot begin to paint a picture of the frustration and trial and error and process of elimination it took to figure this out. And I can't stress how important it is that all fellow growers be aware of this curse known as broad mite.

But as far as dudding, walk in here and find a dud I welcome you to try, it took a few cycles to pump everything through (perpetual that harvest once a week) but after I'd say 2 months everything back to normal.

My fellow gardeners, keep a bottle of kontos around it works wonders. May there still be broad mite in my garden somewhere? Maybe, but I wouldn't know as I continue to treat my veg room weekly. The thought of those things coming back haunts my dreams.

 

[StudenTeacher]

Here's a tidbit of info about fusarium oxysporum in washing machines.

 

[accessndx]

Here's a tidbit of info about fusarium oxysporum in washing machines.

Never hurts to run some bleach thru the washing machine on an empty cycle. That's basically what those washing machine cleaners are anyway.

 

[StudenTeacher]

Here are the results from Nematodes, inc. There are no nematodes...

 

[StudenTeacher]

I don't know what phytophthora is yet. The results came in only moments ago. Time for me to get reading.