No, the Nordle line is is a selection from Nevil's work interbreeding the mapleleaf phenos (afg-T, afg-S, Ort15) and skunk.
Critical Mass is also from maple leaf x skunk breeding work from Nev.
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Holy grail Mr Nice.
- Thread starter SUPER_HAZE
- Start date
Critical Mass is also from maple leaf x skunk breeding work from Nev.
Your Jackie she looks amazingIts classic NL5/Haze...pheno just like my Jackie
Do you have concrete evidence for these statements?
It's all in mns house....
Read a lot, find the answer (foggy answer)
Some more from NHxC5MH
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
acespicoli
Well-known member
Yea man I read through a bunch of that years ago and don't remember reading anything similar to what Raho stated. Now I could be wrong but I'm not ready to dig through Shanti's house of smoke and mirrors again.
Shanti killing a haze line because too many testers found "haze" phenos in it sounds about right for what we see from MNS today.
I don't know why you keep talking about the "mango haze" test line Shanti gave you (that he never sold) as if it has anything to do with what other people have bought.
If it is so different from the retail line, you really shouldn't even use the name "Mango Haze" to describe it, right?
Seems obvious that you are never going to share or sell seeds/cuts you might have created/saved from that line, so why not call it "Hempy Haze"?
At least then we'd end this confusion and the need for you to constantly tell us all about the magic beans you got 20 years ago that nobody else has.
"SB and I have collaborated on what lines to put together"
Basically, this related to NEW work, not Seedbank Classics like SSH, or Nevil's Haze. When I saw him make that post, I immediately though of Shanti's ASH. A new line made by combining selections from 2 different lines he got from Nevil.
"... but we are all reliant on his good taste in selection."
That's Nevil praising Shanti's skills as I mentioned before. Nevil being generous to his host and friend.
Nev may have suggested that Shanti combine Afg Haze and Afg Skunk, but is that all it takes to get credit for being a "collaborator"? Geez man, that's a low bar.
Shanti did all the selection work and that is the actual breeding. Ideas like "you should cross this with that" are free and I don't think Shanti would have liked it if Nevil said HE made ASH.
There is no indication that they collaborated on Shanti's product line in a way that any of us would recognize as meaningful.
BTW @Mods, should we all just assume that this thread is now a free-for-all with no need to keep to the topic originally sought by the OP?
Just curious.
NO, try to stay on topic and not catch a Ban!
Not gonna put together all the quotes and resources required to convince you.
Half of my posts in this thread are complaining about the lack of transparency in pedigrees by Shanti.
Obviously I have spent more than 12 years digging on this stuff and have reached my own conclusions about things. Some people seem to rate them pretty highly (as theories) but your opinion is your own. I was there when Nevil was there. Reading every post he made. Asking him questions, exchanging PMs.
I've asked Shanti many direct questions and never gotten a straight answer.
Listen mate, there is no smoking gun post by Shanti where he comes out and explains everything.
If you want to have any deeper understanding of how the actual sausage is made, you need to read all his posts up there through the lens of the market as it was at the time, and understand the mindset of the man, his perception of the threat that his competitors posed to his sales/profit and his marketing position as the "best source for Nevil's original genetics."
He was forced to obscure everything because much of his lines are rewoked versions of the originals, made with re-selections of parent plants from the breeding project seed stock he bought from Nevil.
You can't market yourself as "the same, the original, the best" and also be "parents lost, re-selected, different" at the same time.
The dutch seed industry was savage back then and Shanti saw threats hiding behind every forum member alias. I can't tell you how many times there were posts by his Mods Hempy and Jesse about "trolls invading the board from the Sensi forum, spreading false info, attacking Shanti and causing trouble."
Paranoia doesn't come close to explaining the atmosphere over there, and Shanti's Mods were hair-trigger hostile.
No way Shanti could ever allow people to know that haze C was dead, or any of the other foundational breeding stock cuttings. Those claims about having the original parents were all that differentiated him from Sensi and Greenhouse. Arch rivals.
Now, he doesn't even think about those old battles, but admitting that he was less than forthright for all those years is almost as unthinkable. His reputation today would suffer and he would gain very little. I don't think finally satisfying the 20-40 random retail customers in the world who gave up getting this information from him 10 years ago would be very high on his agenda.
I encourage you to spend years doing what I've done to inform your own opinions Royal.
It would have helped if you were on the forum back then because much has been scrubbed. There are few things still there that point to the treatment the Mods doled out and the fearful mindset they held.
Even reading the stuff today is hard to understand the significance of things without that context.
But there's value in the effort, and if you do I'll look forward to comparing notes afterwards.
In the end, this is as much understanding the mindset of the people involved as it is gathering breadcrumbs and arranging them into the most logical patterns that context will support.
I often think of this Donald Rumsfeld moment when I ponder Shanti's pedigrees:
Shanti could have taken a lesson from him ;-)
I think Rumy would have liked the more contemporary description of "alternative facts" for Shanti's replies to pedigree questions.
THIS
I've posted multiple times that my statements on these matters are opinion only.
lovely buds the descrpition fits the first <late 80s>nl5 x haze perfectly imo alsoView attachment 18788024
View attachment 18788029
Jack is Back
How it smell???
There is no better description than this.
"The fragrance is complex and deep, with a dry flowery perfume over a base of dark, leathery animal tones."
No Lemon no Fruit no pepper...straigh dark and sour Haze....
Harvested at day 98.
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
Yes it Is, it smell like old A5 haze dark&sour haze smells.
At summer harvest with this dark&sour haze fragrance I noticed some mango/orange.
This time no fruit smell at all.
At summer it was cultivated last 2 weeks of flower in very hot climate and it wasnt grown to perfection becouse of that.
Bit more airy and it was grown in DWC.
Had bigger calyx and bit different look and smell than this Harvest. But all clones do that for me.
Cant wait for spring/winter harvest.
Last edited:
goingrey
Well-known member
To give him his fair dues he has made some positive contributions as well.
Among them a grow report of Holy Grail. The only one seen through to the end on the entire web it seems.
Looks ok.
That's his job grow and advertise eliminate anyone that questions him on mr.nice forums . What's his numbers nowadays banning one a week over there
I i
Thank you. Finally someone can articulate the master of gaslighting known as shantifrauda. His obfuscation has damaged nevils work reputation and haze breeding by pedigree. Just like the old nyc became bedrock for the current city so too do haze lovers build on top of shantis madness.
Use the grail projects with known legit 97 nh serve as a starting point along with lines of known pedigree filial generation and parent traits. Move past the 6 clones of nevila Shanti has left which he did not include in nevils grail efforts. Grail projects piffcoast clones of course south holland f1s sensi even greenhouse has many worthwhile lines which can be relied upon to provide authentic and powerful breeding germplasm. Look at the success yo Sammy and Ace have had using the few true nevil gems left. Let's build on that
Not gonna put together all the quotes and resources required to convince you.
Half of my posts in this thread are complaining about the lack of transparency in pedigrees by Shanti.
Obviously I have spent more than 12 years digging on this stuff and have reached my own conclusions about things. Some people seem to rate them pretty highly (as theories) but your opinion is your own. I was there when Nevil was there. Reading every post he made. Asking him questions, exchanging PMs.
I've asked Shanti many direct questions and never gotten a straight answer.
Listen mate, there is no smoking gun post by Shanti where he comes out and explains everything.
If you want to have any deeper understanding of how the actual sausage is made, you need to read all his posts up there through the lens of the market as it was at the time, and understand the mindset of the man, his perception of the threat that his competitors posed to his sales/profit and his marketing position as the "best source for Nevil's original genetics."
He was forced to obscure everything because much of his lines are rewoked versions of the originals, made with re-selections of parent plants from the breeding project seed stock he bought from Nevil.
You can't market yourself as "the same, the original, the best" and also be "parents lost, re-selected, different" at the same time.
The dutch seed industry was savage back then and Shanti saw threats hiding behind every forum member alias. I can't tell you how many times there were posts by his Mods Hempy and Jesse about "trolls invading the board from the Sensi forum, spreading false info, attacking Shanti and causing trouble."
Paranoia doesn't come close to explaining the atmosphere over there, and Shanti's Mods were hair-trigger hostile.
No way Shanti could ever allow people to know that haze C was dead, or any of the other foundational breeding stock cuttings. Those claims about having the original parents were all that differentiated him from Sensi and Greenhouse. Arch rivals.
Now, he doesn't even think about those old battles, but admitting that he was less than forthright for all those years is almost as unthinkable. His reputation today would suffer and he would gain very little. I don't think finally satisfying the 20-40 random retail customers in the world who gave up getting this information from him 10 years ago would be very high on his agenda.
I encourage you to spend years doing what I've done to inform your own opinions Royal.
It would have helped if you were on the forum back then because much has been scrubbed. There are few things still there that point to the treatment the Mods doled out and the fearful mindset they held.
Even reading the stuff today is hard to understand the significance of things without that context.
But there's value in the effort, and if you do I'll look forward to comparing notes afterwards.
In the end, this is as much understanding the mindset of the people involved as it is gathering breadcrumbs and arranging them into the most logical patterns that context will support.
I often think of this Donald Rumsfeld moment when I ponder Shanti's pedigrees:
Shanti could have taken a lesson from him ;-)
I think Rumy would have liked the more contemporary description of "alternative facts" for Shanti's replies to pedigree questions.
THIS
I've posted multiple times that my statements on these matters are opinion only.
Thank you. Finally someone can articulate the master of gaslighting known as shantifrauda. His obfuscation has damaged nevils work reputation and haze breeding by pedigree. Just like the old nyc became bedrock for the current city so too do haze lovers build on top of shantis madness.
Use the grail projects with known legit 97 nh serve as a starting point along with lines of known pedigree filial generation and parent traits. Move past the 6 clones of nevila Shanti has left which he did not include in nevils grail efforts. Grail projects piffcoast clones of course south holland f1s sensi even greenhouse has many worthwhile lines which can be relied upon to provide authentic and powerful breeding germplasm. Look at the success yo Sammy and Ace have had using the few true nevil gems left. Let's build on that
Them nhz x c5s are some nice plants @Flower Power,is it a seedline?,and how long does it go?,looks hazey.76
Oh yeah it’s a seed line ..got it from @Donald Mallard .. done by 12 weeks & he has more of them …He has such good genetics he doesn’t even know what he has
