Holy grail Mr Nice.

[CannaT]

‘We zijn afkomstig uit de tuinbouw. We teelden vanaf de jaren tachtig witlof en kruiden in daglichtloze teelt. Daar zijn we pioniers in. Zelf rookte ik ook wel eens een jointje maar echt professioneel gingen we pas met cannabis van start begin jaren ’90. We kweekten de zaden voor Sensi Seed bank. De Jack Herer die we toen gekweekt hebben is nu de officiële Bedrocan medicinale cannabis.’

Jack Herer is een kruising van Northern Lights #5, Haze en Skunk #1/Shiva Skunk. Er zijn vier duidelijk te onderscheiden fenotypes; drie sativa-dominante en één indica dominante. Deze laatste, fenotype B, is door Bedrocan gebruikt.

___________________________________________

“We come from horticulture. We have been growing chicory and herbs without daylight since the 1980s. We are pioneers in that. I myself sometimes smoked a joint, but really professionally we only started with cannabis in the early 1990s. We grew the seeds for Sensi Seed bank. The Jack Herer we bred back then is now the official Bedrocan medicinal cannabis.” Jack Herer is a cross between Northern Lights #5, Haze and Skunk #1/Shiva Skunk. There are four clearly distinguishable phenotypes; three sativa-dominant and one indica-dominant. The latter, phenotype B, has been used by Bedrocan.

 

[CannaT]

B​

Phenotype-B is the most Indica-influenced. It is very compact when compared to other Jack Herer phenotypes, though significantly taller than a pure Indica. It adds about 100-200% to its vegetated height in flowering and finishes in under 60 days. Growers who have a particular interest in speed, weight and compact growth pattern should select Jack Herer’s pheno-B as a mother.
Buds mainly cluster around nodes, but ‘run’ enough to cover a large portion of the (shorter) stem and branches. Flower formation is dense and regular, forming angular knots with blunt peaks.
Upper branches often combine with the main stem to form a large central cola. Calyxes are large, but not oversized and pistils are relatively short.
Indoors, this pheno produces most efficiently at a height of 50-100cm.
In terms of the effects, phenotype B produces a strong indica-like effect. With that being said, it does not overpower the cerebral sativa-like effects that are characteristic of Jack Herer varieties and phenotypes.

So anybod who smoked Bedrocan its the most stony pheno of Sensi Jack.

 

[CannaT]

So Mr.Nice Haze experts is this A haze or C haze progeny ???

 

[RandyCalifornia]

So Mr.Nice Haze experts is this A haze or C haze progeny ???

I don't differentiate between them by the looks so much because they can be similar in appearance.
I have grown both cuts A5/C5 in the past and terpenes tell me which way the progeny lean. Myrcene dominant flavor is A influenced and Terpinolene flavor is C.

 

[CannaT]

I don't differentiate between them by the looks so much because they can be similar in appearance.
I have grown both cuts A5/C5 in the past and terpenes tell me which way the progeny lean. Myrcene dominant flavor is A influenced and Terpinolene flavor is C.

This dosent have Mycrene at all(beer smell if it is)...it smells like woody,clay,leather,spice,sandalwood with just a bit of sweetness.
No medicinal haze(eucalyptus,sage)
No ghani/skunk smell at all mycrene or funk.
It smell like Nevilles Haze that was circulate in Amsterdam in early 2000.

 

[@hempy]

I don't differentiate between them by the looks so much because they can be similar in appearance.
I have grown both cuts A5/C5 in the past and terpenes tell me which way the progeny lean. Myrcene dominant flavor is A influenced and Terpinolene flavor is C.

Nevil has posted the difference in the terp profiles you get from HzA and HzC.

HzA offspring have metal and liver type smells.

HzC offspring have fruity type smells.

There are also differences in the flower look and in the frame of the offspring.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

This dosent have Mycrene at all(beer smell if it is)...it smells like woody,clay,leather,spice,sandalwood with just a bit of sweetness.
No medicinal haze(eucalyptus,sage)
No ghani/skunk smell at all mycrene or funk.
It smell like Nevilles Haze that was circulate in Amsterdam in early 2000.

That sandalwood and cardamom and camphor thing comes off hazeC quite strong...very chemically up your sinuses and in your throat bite with the best ones. Sometimes some of them give off this mad medical scent aswell...kind of hospital bandages and antiseptic thing..or soapyness..there were afew that had a mango thing to it..but it was like metal and mango chemicaly up your sinuses thing..starts giving off that orangey thing wen doubling on it some or that diesily thing on some
The hazeA like hempy says liver leather.....but you could pick up old school thai type darker antique leathery, spicy to it with ..and some of the more brown/orangy and gold type phenotypes would give the frankincense.
Jack was basically a seed version of a strain called silver haze (not the current known silver haze which is just silver pearl x hazeC ) which was made with doubling hazeC. That leather, sometimes hashy metallic churchy type background is in most haze

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Yes the pdf works fine, thanks.

They don't really say that Bedrocan is Jack. What they say is:

Bedrocan was originally developed from a Jack Herer genetic background, which supposedly is a slightly Sativa dominant hybrid. [27]

So it could well also be something like the Mother's Finest @Raco mentioned...

Or something totally different altogether. This reference 27 they cite seems to be the Sensi Seeds website landing page, www.sensiseeds.com... LOL.

Amnesia and White Widow were just some flowers they sourced from coffeeshops to have a comparison point. They say Bedrocan is closer to Amnesia than White Widow.

Bedrocan is basically the company name that gives out most of the legal medical prescription weed across Europe....they use the seed mothers the use at sensi to supply different varieties that are then given some medical name...and I think even a number...but they do disclose what the strain is...eg jh wich I think they call bedrocan or something...but they do disclose its from the jack f2 clone seed mother....and its the exact same cut every time grown in the exact same way....I think there are four or five other main strains and then some slightly cheeper types.....

 

[TheDarkStorm]

The fact that what I didn't find in three packs of Nevil haze (I know, only three packs, but my bank account is stingy) I found in three suits taken from one with this face makes me spin even more the stomach...
Forget @JohnnyChicago , it's not worth it .... View attachment 18782793

You shouldn't have had to go through 3 packs...dam thats what 50-60 seeds.....the whole point of nevil going through plant after plant doing the same combination was to find the parent plants that gave the most superior results.(exactly the same as mm x nh being done many times but with different phenotypes as parents).....he only sold in packs of 10 himself and those were regs and people were finding excellent plants back then.....in the proper nh he was confident you could find something as good or better than the parent in 20 at least..

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Anyway any holy grail strain pictures please anyone ?

 

[Raho]

Seed makers are businessmen i dont know of any of them that share their parental line do you.

You are living in an old paradigm @HEMPY.
The old Dutch model of renamed strains and secret pedigrees.
It has other benefits besides keeping the competion from selling knock-offs of your gear selected from packs they buy from you. For example, the refusal to show parent plants can come in very handy when one is lost and a new substitute has to be used to keep the line going. But in those cases, who is knocking off who?

These days, the majority of seeds sold in the US are feminized crosses of one elite cut with another.
In effect, it's practically open source breeding with readily available building blocks.
Yeah, some people have "fake cuts" or use S1's without being honest about it, but the most reputable breeders have all the elites they want.

Of course, those aren't the only seed makers on the market (thank goodness) and those particular kinds of seeds are probably much less desirable to the people reading this thread than traditional M/F seed lines done through personal selection runs to find special phenos. Those traditional breeders tend to protect their keepers just as you describe, as the secret sauce that makes their work special.
But . . . even among those groups there are people who share their personal treasure, beyond simple backups.

As an example, @yosammy has shared the elite cuts from Nev that he and the South Holland crew preserved for all those years with Dubi at ACE to use in making hybrids so that more people could have access to them. He also shared the cuts with other special people around the world for the same reasons. This includes the circle of breeders involved with Bodhi, many of whom are old friends now and share particular cuts between them. DocD, Kiona and "unnamed others."
There are plenty of other examples, but only one is needed here.

I know you are talking specifically about Shanti here when you say things like "none" or "all", but you never say that.
The problem with your posts on this (off) topic Hempy, is the "absolute" way in which you describe your perspective as applying to all seed makers everywhere. In your mind, it is the only version that can be correct, and anyone that tries to point this out to you immediately runs into the stone wall of your ego which sees them as a Shanti/Nevil hater or take the pointing out flaws in your post as a personal attack.
You completely miss the point people are trying to correct about your logic mistake and double down.

=======================
But all of this is moot to the topic of this thread which is supposed to be about Shanti's Grail, a strain which apparently has only been run by about 3 people (if you include gypsyeyes/musashi.)
=======================

I had hoped that when this thread was re-opened, more actual Grail growers might show up and share their experience.
Instead it seems to have continued to devolve down the usual path of free-wheeling bickering between the yin and yang of haze absolutists (pure vs hybrid), with a strange "Jack Herer is the BEST HAZE EVER" variation I've never seen before.
That's bad enough, but we also got the always unpopular persecution complex misunderstandings between normal-ish humans and the self-appointed defender of Nevil and Shanti's honor.
Sometimes I just wish we could find some new exciting ways to disagree, but I don't think it's gonna happen in this thread.

I'll end my post with these 2 lines:
"Epstein didn't kill himself."
"Haze C is dead."

 

[CannaT]

That sandalwood and cardamom and camphor thing comes off hazeC quite strong...very chemically up your sinuses and in your throat bite with the best ones. Sometimes some of them give off this mad medical scent aswell...kind of hospital bandages and antiseptic thing..or soapyness..there were afew that had a mango thing to it..but it was like metal and mango chemicaly up your sinuses thing..starts giving off that orangey thing wen doubling on it some or that diesily thing on some
The hazeA like hempy says liver leather.....but you could pick up old school thai type darker antique leathery, spicy to it with ..and some of the more brown/orangy and gold type phenotypes would give the frankincense.
Jack was basically a seed version of a strain called silver haze (not the current known silver haze which is just silver pearl x hazeC ) which was made with doubling hazeC. That leather, sometimes hashy metallic churchy type background is in most haze

This one has almost no cardamom and no camphor at all.
More of that liver,leather tipe.

That NL5 x haze I grew was 100% hybrid C by description this shit is all A...
Thats the right description but JH smells like if you put in some oil leather,clay,cinamon,and bit mangoish/orangeish sweetness with sandalwood, it smells so multy layered and very old school.
True Haze esence.

So its like I tought Haze A. Thx Darkie.

 

[@hempy]

Raho i am only repeating what Nevil told me and as i said this can be verified by other people that were also close to Nevil.

Shanti called them Coffee shop cuts.

I know what the 5HzA looks like as i have a photo .

It took me years to get to the point were i can see if its HzA or HzC leaning. I have Nevil and Shanti to thank for that.

Nevil selected these clones not Sammy not a group of growers and not any person claiming to have these clones.

Nevil arranged for the clones to be collected sent to him and that never happened.

Nevil was sent samples of these clones and he said they were ether not the clones he had selected or they had lost all there spark and no longer wanted them.

So Who you going to believe Nevil that breed them selected the clones and Shanti that was given Nevils plant library or a sauce other than Nevil or Shanti that claimed to have how many 5HzA diffrent clones ? No i will belive what Nevil and Shanti had to say.

 

[CannaT]

"strange "Jack Herer is the BEST HAZE EVER" variation I've never seen before."

"this strain ranks as the most awarded variety in the history of harvest festivals."

So its not something new....Its the best from begining.

Just some people dosen't want to hear truth.


If Im right 99% of us here start serching through the haze....when they first time smoke Jack Herer,Kali mist,Silver Haze or 5haze...
And after all these breeding and growing almost 30 years later no one find something better.

Even in 2022 Jack if genetics and grow conditions are real still is the best Haze...

Just my opionion.
Based on some facts from past.

 

[Raho]

Even in 2022 Jack if genetics and grow conditions are real still is the best Haze...

Just my opionion.

This (bold above) is the part you left out of all your previous posts about jack.
"Opinion", "personal taste", "for me" . . .
Adding any of those modifiers completely changes what you've been saying and how you've said it.

Also, there is the issue that you are talking about something that most people experience as a seed line as if it was a cutting, or a sample of buds from your recent harvest, like everyone who smokes jack around the world smokes the same thing.
Obviously it's not and they don't.
The way you wrote it, your point is indefensible to anyone who wants to put in the effort.

If you understand that, then I'll look forward to reading more of your stuff, maybe in the haze hybrids thread?
This ain't the "Jack" thread, although some people seem to be jacking it pretty good.

 

[Raho]

Raho i am only repeating what Nevil told me and as i said this can be verified by other people that were also close to Nevil.

Shanti called them Coffee shop cuts.

I know what the 5HzA looks like as i have a photo .

It took me years to get to the point were i can see if its HzA or HzC leaning. I have Nevil and Shanti to thank for that.

Nevil selected these clones not Sammy not a group of growers and not any person claiming to have these clones.

Nevil arranged for the clones to be collected sent to him and that never happened.

Nevil was sent samples of these clones and he said they were ether not the clones he had selected or they had lost all there spark and no longer wanted them.

I wish Nevil was here still to explain all the things he told you that you misunderstood.

So Who you going to believe Nevil that breed them selected the clones and Shanti that was given Nevils plant library or a sauce other than Nevil or Shanti that claimed to have how many 5HzA diffrent clones ? No i will belive what Nevil and Shanti had to say.

Nevil? Yes.
Your memory and interpretation of what he said? No.

No point asking if I'll believe Shanti. You know I don't.

 

[@hempy]

I clearly remember what Nevil told me regarding those clones there is no misunderstanding or confusion.

 

[CannaT]

I clearly remember what Nevil told me regarding those clones there is no misunderstanding or confusion.

Hempy why dont you post picture of that original haze A5?
And what you think about my Jack A or C by look ?

 

[CannaT]

This (bold above) is the part you left out of all your previous posts about jack.
"Opinion", "personal taste", "for me" . . .
Adding any of those modifiers completely changes what you've been saying and how you've said it.

Also, there is the issue that you are talking about something that most people experience as a seed line as if it was a cutting, or a sample of buds from your recent harvest, like everyone who smokes jack around the world smokes the same thing.
Obviously it's not and they don't.
The way you wrote it, your point is indefensible to anyone who wants to put in the effort.

If you understand that, then I'll look forward to reading more of your stuff, maybe in the haze hybrids thread?
This ain't the "Jack" thread, although some people seem to be jacking it pretty good.

Hi Raho I know what you mean.
All I wright is my personal opinion only.

I am neither a hodja nor a priest to preach the absolute truth.



Im always for freedom of toughts and speach.

 

[@hempy]

Hempy why dont you post picture of that original haze A5?
And what you think about my Jack A or C by look ?

I wont post it because i was asked not to but in my thread i posted examples of a NH that looked like the 5HzA clone. People need to read what i post more and focus less on attacking me.

Your JH looks HzC CannaT