Hollow stems, good or bad???

[delta9nxs]

The odd thing is that coco they are woody, and hydro they are hollow.

lucas in his "ask lucas" thread stated that the lucas formula using flora nova bloom alone throughout both veg and flower did not produce hollow stems.

but when he went to flora nova grow for veg abandoning the "lucas formula" and then flora nova bloom for flower he not only got hollow stems with the same cultivar but a larger harvest as well.

examining the difference the hollow stemmed plants were getting not only more nitrogen but more calcium too as the ratio of calcium to nitrogen is about 90% in the veg formula.

i personally think that your getting woody stems in coco and hollow stems in hydro is do to the difference in oxygen levels.

i grow large plants in coco in the recirculating ppk but also completely drain the medium after each pulsed irrigation event. which removes the perched water table and maintains a better oxygen ratio in the root zone. i am currently applying 1/2 gal per hour around the clock yet show no drowning issues. these are 7-8' diameter plants.

i'm using jack's hydroponic special and calcinit at a ratio that produces a 3-1-4 npk. i almost always get hollow stems.

also the calcium is approx 90% of the nitrogen.

 

[FoothillFarming]

lucas in his "ask lucas" thread stated that the lucas formula using flora nova bloom alone throughout both veg and flower did not produce hollow stems.

but when he went to flora nova grow for veg abandoning the "lucas formula" and then flora nova bloom for flower he not only got hollow stems with the same cultivar but a larger harvest as well.

examining the difference the hollow stemmed plants were getting not only more nitrogen but more calcium too as the ratio of calcium to nitrogen is about 90% in the veg formula.

i personally think that your getting woody stems in coco and hollow stems in hydro is do to the difference in oxygen levels.

i grow large plants in coco in the recirculating ppk but also completely drain the medium after each pulsed irrigation event. which removes the perched water table and maintains a better oxygen ratio in the root zone. i am currently applying 1/2 gal per hour around the clock yet show no drowning issues. these are 7-8' diameter plants.

i'm using jack's hydroponic special and calcinit at a ratio that produces a 3-1-4 npk. i almost always get hollow stems.

also the calcium is approx 90% of the nitrogen.

Here is the problem in our field......You have tissue/sap tests to back that up? I would ask for soil tests, but you hydro guys don't do that. I would absolutely love to look at some tissue samples of the crops mentioned above. However, most people don't do tissue samples due to laws and labs not allowing it.

Also, your oxygen levels theory holds merit for sure.

 

[delta9nxs]

Here is the problem in our field......You have tissue/sap tests to back that up? I would ask for soil tests, but you hydro guys don't do that. I would absolutely love to look at some tissue samples of the crops mentioned above. However, most people don't do tissue samples due to laws and labs not allowing it.

Also, your oxygen levels theory holds merit for sure.

hey! no, i don't. i'm afraid that my experience is, like most others on the cannabis boards, anecdotal and empirical.

but now that you mention it, it would be interesting to see what post harvest tissue analysis shows.

jrpeters lab will do one on any plant sample sent to them.

to clarify, on my plants, not all the plant stems are hollow. by the time i get a 3" inch main stalk the lower part of the plant is entirely woody and filled in. but that same meristem higher up the plant will be hollow. in fact, when i top them i usually put a piece of aluminum tape tightly over the open end. i don't really know exactly why but i sleep better after doing it.

same with branches. larger lower branches will be quite solid while the ends will be hollow.

 

[GastroGrower]

by the time i get a 3" inch main stalk the lower part of the plant is entirely woody and filled in. but that same meristem higher up the plant will be hollow.

This has been my experience for larger plants grown in hydro as well. When I top heavily and keep branching short and tight however, there doesn't seem to be as much variation within the stems. Just anecdotal of course and I do think part of it is strain/nutrition based.

Great thread!

 

[HL45]

I have heard from growers who I trust and respect that hollow stems are caused by lack of micronutrients.

Delta9nxs I have wondered if using Jacks "MOST" would change the growth from hollow to woody.

 

[delta9nxs]

I have heard from growers who I trust and respect that hollow stems are caused by lack of micronutrients.

Delta9nxs I have wondered if using Jacks "MOST" would change the growth from hollow to woody.

the jack's base formula contains the mix of soluble trace elements already.

 

[rjrom90]

Interesting thread for sure. Had hollow stems on some of my highest yielding grows and also wondered why. They were in coco on 300 ppm of jacks & calnit @1:0.66, 200 ppm sea crop, and 200 ppm tap water. Ended up yielding 2.5 lbs / kw after 3 weeks of veg.

 

[Loc Dog]

That is what is confusing to me. Same cloned plant, with same nutrients. Coco was always woody, and first hydro grow in ages is like straws. Only difference is 600 PPM in coco and 1000 PPM in hydro. I have had obvious signs of cal/mag deficiency with OG's in coco, used additive and was fine. The hydro plants are growing much better than I have ever had in coco.

These do not show any deficiency in leaves. Will try finishing this run and see how the results are. Will try additional calcium on next run, maybe one tent with and one without.

Thanks for all the input!!

 

[FoothillFarming]

So now I am hearing more evidence to Ca deficiency.

You guys say the old growth fills in with solid stems. New growth is hallow. Watch this video on how this product works, and pay attention to the fact Ca is slower than N, and needs a second mode of application to catch up. Watch the video, it will make more sense.

 

[FoothillFarming]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PvdG9L4f5I

watch the whole video, but around 4 minutes.

 

[Avenger]

pith autolysis

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/75/6/587

https://www.researchgate.net/public...nd_the_development_of_hollow_stem_in_broccoli

http://eprints.utas.edu.au/19274/1/whole_BoersmaMark2009_thesis.pdf

 

[caterpillar710]

It's real bad. If stem is hollow you're short on nutrients to form base metabolic functions

 

[Robrites]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PvdG9L4f5I

watch the whole video, but around 4 minutes.

Any problem with spraying this stuff directly on buds?

 

[FoothillFarming]

Any problem with spraying this stuff directly on buds?

I never spray past 6 weeks, but no. Should be safe up to the day of harvest I believe. Cat sprays later than I do right?

 

[Dankwolf]

Hallow for the win

Hallow for the win

My experiance. There are expections to my personal finding i am sure this is just what i have noted over my years of growing.

Hallow = 1: harder to get rooted most of the time but not always , 2: better high every time , 3 vigours growth , 4: takes well to lst.

Woody/ not hallow = 1: easyer to get rooted most of the time but not always , 2: high tends to suck (hemp?) (kushy?) , 3: slow shity growth , 4 does not Like to be messed with no lst or even moving (dont touch lol) .

In 14+ years of growing i have not found a woody pith filled stalked keeper . just my 2 cents

 

[FoothillFarming]

My experiance. There are expections to my personal finding i am sure this is just what i have noted over my years of growing.

Hallow = 1: harder to get rooted most of the time but not always , 2: better high every time , 3 vigours growth , 4: takes well to lst.

Woody/ not hallow = 1: easyer to get rooted most of the time but not always , 2: high tends to suck (hemp?) (kushy?) , 3: slow shity growth , 4 does not Like to be messed with no lst or even moving (dont touch lol) .

In 14+ years of growing i have not found a woody pith filled stalked keeper . just my 2 cents

Really? Everything I grow has full stems. Ranges from top quality to mids, hundreds of strains. Only time plants get hollow stems is the first month of growth from seed. Hard to have the Ca catch up to the N at that time of growth IME.

 

[caterpillar710]

Really? Everything I grow has full stems. Ranges from top quality to mids, hundreds of strains. Only time plants get hollow stems is the first month of growth from seed. Hard to have the Ca catch up to the N at that time of growth IME.

Start your seed with Ca touching the tap root and it's pretty easy. Try out some BioCoat gold

 

[Dankwolf]

I am talking clones not seed . i have always associated pith filled round stems with hindu kush and hemp (could be wrong i dont like either) hollow for me is just a indicator of healthy genetics that have not been ran into the ground then passed out to the public .i am not a kush fan at all. ran many dif kush/og clones seeds elites and almost all of them seem to be pith filled. My hollow stem varieties put pith filed ones to shame speed,yeild&quality.

 

[Dankwolf]

I am a organic soiless grower small plants

I am a organic soiless grower small plants

 

[caterpillar710]

You're wrong , hollow stems means wrong nutrient balance ... Period