Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[eddie.saw]

anyone else smell that... smells like....



SOCIALISM!

 

[the Rock]

its all good and couldnt care less about this mess

 

[FrankRizzo]

I'm still trying to understand the bill for myself, instead of listening to the ass hats tell me what it means. I do feel we need health care reform, but I think we could get some third graders to draw it up better than the crooks in Washington.

# “Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.”

So far this is one of the main issues I have. I don't want anyone telling me I must have insurance. Period, end of story. If I want to legally drive my car I get insurance, makes sense. But I can stop paying it if I don't want to drive. For someone to tell me I must have something costly like this is nuts. To top it off people in this country illegally don't have to have the same coverage? I don't think so. If they want to be here, legal or not, they should have to pay too. I realize this would be next to impossible to enforce, but I'm not saying I have all the answers.

I still can't believe they elected Bush TWICE!

In our defense, I'm pretty sure he stole the second term.

for now.

 

[SpasticGramps]

This is the ignorance that gets threads like this closed. I like hearing both side of the picture, weather i agree or disagree. Never know when you might learn something. If you would just listen with an open mind.

He peed on me first.

 

[Frozenguy]

Excellent!



YES! And I already told you that this is a GOOD thing!

Private insurance companies in the USA have made billions of dollars off the deaths of millions of USA taxpaying citizens!

They shouldn't just be put out of business their employees and CEOs and presidents and shareholders should be thrown in fucking jail and the buildings they worked in demolished to smithereens!





YES I DO think you are crazy!

Insane! Completely nuts!

The (junk) food industry in USA is one of the major sources of income for USA and one of their last major exports. The FDA will not touch issues like fructose being a poison and other chronic toxins in food like aspartame, because they make so much money for companies. Maybe they will start regulating these things (also a good thing), but the answer is more than definitely a resounding no they won't because the FDA and food industry is super corrupt and (junk) food is again is one of the major USA exports you have left, along with weapons. You can't sell cars and computers what will you sell if you aren't going to sell the fat USA ass to the rest of the world?

AND if you need a coronary surgery, a heart, valve, or some other likewise procedure I sure as fuck hope you are not eating junk food and burgers and total garbage just killing yourself are you crazy!

Yes there is a vested interest in getting sick people as healthy as possible and the food you put into your body is one of the main factors affecting health and disease!

AND if someone is in line for an organ transplant you don't want to give valuable organs that are already in short supply to morons who won't take care of their body and just want a new organ so they can shovel more shit into their body and not take care of themselves (though now we can grow organs from your own cells but they suppress the technology... Another discussion...).
Why give it the life saving rare organ to someone who will only kill themselves in weeks by not taking care of themselves when there are plenty of people who want to be healthy and do their best to take care of themselves and the first step in this is eating healthy.



I am laughing out loud. Go to jail? Never saw anything like that in any bill. Find volunteers? Good luck with that buddy are you serious? Tax subsidies are enough are you insane (yes apparently)?!?!?

Yes taxpayers ought to pay for health coverage we do it in other countries USA should catch up with the rest of the world, or how about trying to be the leaders again on this? You pay for fire department, social security, police, etc., etc. you should be able to go into a hospital and get free treatment its not very hard I already told you how you can pay for it all! Why don't you cut military spending stop making UFO drones, satellite missile systems, and multi billion dollar spy planes and get people some healthcare. And while your at it do something about that homeless problem!



YEAH K

No you couldn't win it because you can't win a guerrilla war the way USA tries to fight them.

You obviously have never read anything other than a news article about the Vietnam war. Pretty sad because you are showing your complete ignorance on the subject.

Why are you bringing up homeless and the defense agencies? Yes those are huge problems too. I didn't create them!! I want them taken care of. I don't get where you are coming with that crap.

And just because you can't see the possibilities of a socialistic government doesn't mean I'm crazy.

You argue like you live here and actually know whats going on. Have you read anything about the bill? Obviously not or else you would see how you can become a felon by not participating.

With that said, no matter how great this plan could be, the price tag is too large. I don't care if everyone agreed with the politics of it. It costs too much!

Our country needs to be re-configured before we can take on a health care plan of this magnitude.

Again, I think most people are missing this from my posts:
I WANT health care reform, I think the system definitely needs to be reorganized all the way down to the roots of the industry.

 

[rootfingers]

I stand by my comments. You fools act like the research hasn't been done. like we just started seeing this problem yesterday. Fact of the matter is America has a terrible health care system based on profit. Countries have shopped around for health care in the past (including ours) and found the American way to be completely unacceptable and not adoptable. We allow insurance companies to decide when to pay out for our care. The obvious conflict of interest is that they make more money if they can offer you less coverage. You end up paying far more in the long run with this style of health care system. If you want to question that then just google it.

I have been following this thing since the spring and I can tell you folks that the people using these tea party disruption tactics are in the minority. Most people in this country are reasonable humans that if given the straight facts would probably choose like most modern country's did and pick a single payer system. Unfortunately we gave the country to politicians a while back and they gave it to corporations. These entity's have been purposely creating an atmosphere of propaganda that has actually brainwashed some to the point they can't see that this bill is truly intended to help Americans access health care.

You can call it socialism all you want and it is based on a socialist philosophy but what does that matter really? You are so afraid of a concept that you burn it at the stake without even considering the benefits. Police and fire department are socialism. Public schools.

I watched several hours of the house debate yesterday and I can testify to the gross display the republicans put on. They are running a campaign to destroy America. They posed no ideas that even remotely resembled a fix to the problem. Same thing they did on this issue when they were in power. Nothing. At least the dems are trying to present reasonable solutions.

Like I said the research has been done already and the bill that is on its way to the senate reflects that. Its not perfect, no legislation is. It is a step in the right direction though and I truly hope it passes for everyone's sake even the idiots that don't want it. It's unheard of in many places to go bankrupt from health care bills. They only know what a health care bill is because they hear of America's twisted system.

 

[JimBeamKush]

rootfingers man that is the best post so far. Just dont tell us americans.

 

[Machine Elf]

You obviously have never read anything other than a news article about the Vietnam war. Pretty sad because you are showing your complete ignorance on the subject.

YEAH K

Why are you bringing up homeless and the defense agencies? Yes those are huge problems too. I didn't create them!! I want them taken care of. I don't get where you are coming with that crap.

Because a bunch of ninnies are complaining that they won't have the money to pay for healthcare, or where will the money will or can come from. I told you where it can come from, and while you are at it help some homeless people too!

I am glad you want these problems taken care of!

And just because you can't see the possibilities of a socialistic government doesn't mean I'm crazy.

You ALREADY HAVE a socialistic government and socialistic system. You don't understand what socialism really is.

You argue like you live here and actually know whats going on.

I have lived in the USA before and I DO know what is going on yes thank you!

Have you read anything about the bill? Obviously not or else you would see how you can become a felon by not participating.

Have you read the bill? Quote me the actual article section from the bill that was passed from a legitimate website.

I still don't see the issue even if what you claim is true.

You should want to be covered, and indeed there is no problem with requiring working tax paying citizens to be required to have health insurance, since when you get sick and go to the hospital, everyone else has to fit the bill for you if you can't pay for it, and that should be a crime, because it is wrong to make everyone else pay for you when you get sick when you can get health insurance for free (since if you can't pay because of income you get it subsidized free). Why you wouldn't want coverage is beyond craziness. I guess you pray to god not to get sick or in car accidents.

AND if you want crappy coverage with a private company you can pay for that too (only these companies will no longer be able to fuck people over as they have previously, as per reforms in the bill!).

With that said, no matter how great this plan could be, the price tag is too large. I don't care if everyone agreed with the politics of it. It costs too much!

Are you reading?

I ALREADY TOLD YOU it will not cost too much. You are completely lying through your teeth and don't know what you are talking about. You could pay for heathcare with but the loss of a few nuclear submarines. Complain to your USA gov about that not that it will cost to much the USA budget is enormous healthcare is a pittance to what goes in and out of the system!

USA debt is ~80 trillion you complain about a plan that will cost 1 trillion over many years!?!??!?
I would think going into a small amount of debt is a large tradeoff in comparison to the benefit of a public healthcare option and reform of healthcare overall. Especially considering most of those trillions went to two wars that USA people got nothing out of except debt, death, bankrupt economy, loss of civil rights, etc.

Our country needs to be re-configured before we can take on a health care plan of this magnitude.

USA has a lot of problems. Who cares how its done I would say get whatever done as quick as you can in whatever order you can: healthcare, military withdrawals, renewable energy and climate legislation, etc., etc.

Again, I think most people are missing this from my posts:
I WANT health care reform, I think the system definitely needs to be reorganized all the way down to the roots of the industry.

You claim you want reform then when the bill comes and reform is offered you now fall for the propaganda saying the reform is blah blah blah. It makes no sense!

 

[Frozenguy]

YEAH K



Because a bunch of ninnies are complaining that they won't have the money to pay for healthcare, or where will the money will or can come from. I told you where it can come from, and while you are at it help some homeless people too!

I am glad you want these problems taken care of!




You ALREADY HAVE a socialistic government and socialistic system. You don't understand what socialism really is.




I have lived in the USA before and I DO know what is going on yes thank you!



Have you read the bill? Quote me the actual article section from the bill that was passed from a legitimate website.

I still don't see the issue even if what you claim is true.

You should want to be covered, and indeed there is no problem with requiring working tax paying citizens to be required to have health insurance, since when you get sick and go to the hospital, everyone else has to fit the bill for you if you can't pay for it, and that should be a crime, because it is wrong to make everyone else pay for you when you get sick when you can get health insurance for free (since if you can't pay because of income you get it subsidized free). Why you wouldn't want coverage is beyond craziness. I guess you pray to god not to get sick or in car accidents.

AND if you want crappy coverage with a private company you can pay for that too (only these companies will no longer be able to fuck people over as they have previously, as per reforms in the bill!).




Are you reading?

I ALREADY TOLD YOU it will not cost too much. You are completely lying through your teeth and don't know what you are talking about. You could pay for heathcare with but the loss of a few nuclear submarines. Complain to your USA gov about that not that it will cost to much the USA budget is enormous healthcare is a pittance to what goes in and out of the system!

USA debt is ~80 trillion you complain about a plan that will cost 1 trillion over many years!?!??!?
I would think going into a small amount of debt is a large tradeoff in comparison to the benefit of a public healthcare option and reform of healthcare overall. Especially considering most of those trillions went to two wars that USA people got nothing out of except debt, death, bankrupt economy, loss of civil rights, etc.



USA has a lot of problems. Who cares how its done I would say get whatever done as quick as you can in whatever order you can: healthcare, military withdrawals, renewable energy and climate legislation, etc., etc.



You claim you want reform then when the bill comes and reform is offered you now fall for the propaganda saying the reform is blah blah blah. It makes no sense!

Telling me that we can pay for this current health care plan by selling off several of our nuclear submarines does not sound realistic at all.

We do spend a lot on defense (offense?? ) but its just not practical to sell them. Who do we sell them to that can even pay for them? Also, brand new they weren't even 1T each, so three or four would have to be sold. And our nuclear subs would be the last thing they would sell.. Its just not that easy to sell of defense material.

But we do have enough money in the taxes we pay already. I'll agree to that, it just needs to be reconfigured.

Anyways, if I was up there, I would find a way to make this work because I have some friends that dont have health insurance and I can see how bad it sucks when they need it or think they need it.

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

Originally Posted by republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov

Republican Ways and Means
Contact: Jim Billimoria or Sage Eastman (202) 226-4774


PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail
JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail


Washington, Nov 6 -

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

- - - - - - - - - -

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

- - - - - - - - - -


“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.

###

 

[steppinRazor]

I'm afraid of Americans, I'm afraid of the World, I'm afraid i Cant Help It!!

 

[Bobby Stainless]

its all good and couldnt care less about this mess

Here is the main problem...

You will care.

 

[9Lives]

I ALREADY TOLD YOU it will not cost too much. You are completely lying through your teeth and don't know what you are talking about. You could pay for heathcare with but the loss of a few nuclear submarines. Complain to your USA gov about that not that it will cost to much the USA budget is enormous healthcare is a pittance to what goes in and out of the system!

USA debt is ~80 trillion you complain about a plan that will cost 1 trillion over many years!?!??!?
I would think going into a small amount of debt is a large tradeoff in comparison to the benefit of a public healthcare option and reform of healthcare overall. Especially considering most of those trillions went to two wars that USA people got nothing out of except debt, death, bankrupt economy, loss of civil rights, etc.

Nice..you have just exposed yourself as someone with absolutely ZERO economic sense..Good job..

Seeing as you are someone that obviously makes decision based on ideology and not fact. Let me englighten you a bit..

The only reason Americans are not eating soup and bread right now is because Obama passed a stimulus bill that propped up the system. This is a Keynesian experiment of unprecedented magnitude AND it WILL FAIL! Just like it always has.

The unemployment rate will continue it's trend..
Oil prices and food prices will continue to rise as inflation truly sets in and people ofcourse are investing their money in the proper futures as an inflation hedge.

United states is not the industrial powerhouse it was. It is going to be very interesting to see how it pulls itself out of this hole. I can't see it right now..

Listen...if you think money can be created out of this air. Why bother working ?

 

[Marywanna]

Why don't you all ask someone that is chronically ill,has private insurance and is happy with their care what they think about this health bill?

 

[sparkjumper]

When gov't takes control of healthcare you can bet they have a vested interest in your lifestyle.I guess a lot of people here don't worry about Fed gov't intrusion into our lives..Personally I mind someone in Washington making those personal choices for me.Telling me how to live...what to eat.And its just the beginning

 

[Bobby Stainless]

The problem is, most of you think the Govt. is screwing up.

When they are doing exactly what they intend. This is all an attempt to have the US dollar fail, and move to a World Bank/Currency. Which will control the Global economy, in turn controlling the Globe...

I started a thread a year ago about buying Gold, that was when Gold was at 750 I believe. It is now almost 1100.

This is happening, and is exactly what the Trilateral group wants, along with the other groups that really control everything.

This Democrat Republican thing is a sham to keep us divided.

 

[9Lives]

The problem is, most of you think the Govt. is screwing up.

When they are doing exactly what they intend. This is all an attempt to have the US dollar fail, and move to a World Bank/Currency. Which will control the Global economy, in turn controlling the Globe...

I started a thread a year ago about buying Gold, that was when Gold was at 750 I believe. It is now almost 1100.

This is happening, and is exactly what the Trilateral group wants, along with the other groups that really control everything.

This Democrat Republican thing is a sham to keep us divided.

One world currency you can forget about. It makes no economic sence..

Why would i want the same currency with a failed state ? What does a functional country have to benefit from it ? The USA is not as powerful as you think..China would tell you to fuck off in a second. So would Russian. Not even talking about the underdeveloped countries. Who would want that much water in their soup ?

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Third World Countries are already owned by the UN, which is the forefront of this One World Economy. Do you really think the starving are starving, because a lack of money? I lost enough money playing online poker to feed a village for a week. This was just last night..They are kept that way...

Whether you like it or not the Dollar is king for now, Oil is traded in dollars. The push for a one world currency is happening. The UN has already written up the "treaty".

All the countries you mentioned are dying to drop the dollar.

Just watch this, because you are mistaken on what is happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

 

[basspirate]

Conspiracy theories aside;

I agree with the sentiments of many of you, the US misspends most of our hard-earned tax dollars, the welfare system is being raped like a tight little bitch on uncle's day at the whorehouse and we are likely to go into even worse debt over this healthcare business.

But, you know what? When I get violently ill and can't afford to see a doctor, why the hell am I going to care about the national debt? Whether or not this plan is the 'right' or 'wrong' plan, don't we need to take care of each other?

I work hard, I study hard and follow my countries laws...well except that one thing. I constantly feel pissed on by society though as I can't take my wife to the doctor when she's had a fever of 103 for three days.

Maybe fifty years down the line this country is going to be as fucked up as you all claim, but I and many of the other uninsured sure want to be here to see it. I think the problem isn't in "socialized" healthcare, but in all the unnecessary horrendous spending practices of our gov't. The people of this country need to be the focus of our political interests. Maybe if the little guy came back to be the focus of our gov't rather than helping rich corporations get richer we wouldn't see this as such a big problem.

I don't want the gov't to be any more involved in my life than absolutely necessary, but I don't see anyone complaining about socialized police, education, mail etc. Why can't there be some sort of option for me to receive care when I'm in need? Keep in mind most people who need socialized services would provide for themselves if given the option but it's pretty much impossible.

IMO as long as we keep hiring corporate cronies to run our country, that's who's going to see all the benefit.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

I'll tell you one thing...

If cap and trade is passed, you can say goodbye to Indoor Growing...

 

[9Lives]

OMG another Alex Jones fanboy...i'm sorry to inform you but the man is an idiot! He knows fuck all about economics..


If cap and trade is passed, you can say goodbye to Indoor Growing...

No way in hell..


And the dollar king ? Just how are you going to convince the rest of the world in that ? It is not up to U.S to decide if their currency is king or not..