Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[Frozenguy]

And then you'll be be presented with a bill that can easily top 100 thousand dollars. Then you declare bankruptcy and lose your home, retirement and savings and then you're finally eligible for real healthcare under the evil socialist program known as "Medicaid". Of course, in order to be eligible, you have to be living in poverty so as long as you want to be able to afford treatment, you have to give up your job if it pays more than minimum wage and basically live off a pittance.



This is stupid. Canada, the UK, France, Australia and New Zealand all have government-supported health care(in the UK, every doctor is a government employee and every hospital is government-run; in the other countries mentioned, doctors and hospitals are largely private but each citizen is provided health insurance by the government) and yet it's still legal to buy a Big Mac in Canada, last I checked. The US government doesn't need to provide healthcare to have an excuse to intrude in our lives(alcohol and drug prohibition were both started before even Medicare was around).



I know. It's so ridiculous that I have to pay for other people's fire insurance. I mean, if your house burns down, why should I have to pay for it? Why should my tax dollars be spent on sending firefighters to somebody else's house without even asking for a credit card number first. I mean, yeah, if a fire broke out and the homeowner didn't have insurance, the fire could burn down the entire city and cause billions of dollars of damage, but isn't that a small price to pay for FREEDOM????

And not only that, but we've got socialized schools. Socialized libraries and parks. And if my neighbor gets raped, she gets to call the cops and then they use MY TAX DOLLARS to send her to the hospital, order a DNA test, investigate, prosecute the rapists and incarcerate them. Why doesn't the dumb bitch pay for it herself? What's that? She can't afford to hire an investigator, an attorney and to rent out a prison cell? Well maybe she should have thought about that before she got raped. Stupid welfare queens.

You're exactly right! Did you read my entire post? We have been adopting socialistic ideals for DECADES!!! We aren't the same free nation we were before. We are taxed beyond belief AND IT CONTINUES.

I don't agree with our socialized public school program. I DO believe in education though so don't twist my words.

Now, the fire department thing, I dont view that the same way. I don't mind have community services! But there is a balance, a line to everything! We have crossed it years ago.



Just because I'm against this plan for health care reform does not mean I don't care about my fellow man/woman.

 

[gogoplata420]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dYpnd_9TFs

 

[Frozenguy]

It is so sad to see people react like this, I really thought better than that. I for one have NO problem with my tax dollars going to help someone else who is sick.

I donate money every month to ST Judes. EVERY month, and I dont make much and I am a full time college student.

What makes me mad about this is the patheticness of people. I can not believe people are really mad about this, it is sad. I for one am for goverment healthcare.

The goverment has to run and control a uncountable number of programs and things. They have to try to make EVERYONE happy, they have to try and do stuff to make everyone who bitchs and moans about other people happy.

As far as I am concerened you people can shove it up your ass. I for one live in the southeast bible belt with so many right wing conservatives, you guys are the biggest group of hypocirtiacal bunch of basterds I have ever seen. You can take your twisted version of god and shove it right where the sun does not shine.

I have read many books about many relegions and I have yet to read about one relegion that would not want healthcare for EVERYONE.

Makes me fucking sick. You all think your going to heaven when you can not even sacrafice for someone you do not know.

EDIT: Also I give PROPS to the American goverment! Good job Obama, Good job to the house, the senate, everyone. FUCK anyone who does not realize what you guys do everyday to try and make everyone happy.

You can not make 100% of people happy. I for one think the goverment needs to quit trying.

God bless the mighty $.

I really don't think a lot of those comments are fair.

Just because someone is against this health care reform plan doesn't mean they are republican/democrat, left wing right wing whatever.

I care about people, but this isn't what its about. There is alot more then oh I don't want to pay more money; which is a big factor.

We need to get to the root of the problem; plain and simple. Not dump 1.2 trillion$$ into it from a hemorrhaging nation.

 

[sorcival]

Enlightenment for 'SHEEPLE':

http://www.prisonplanet.com/kiss-your-freedoms-goodbye-if-health-care-passes.html

http://www.infowars.com/the-end-of-america-happens-in-the-middle-of-the-night/

 

[JimBeamKush]

The fact of the matter is any kind of healthcare reform is going to cost a lot of money and it seems to be the only thing people are complaining about, and most of those people that are complaining are the ultra conservatives.

Did you know when america was thinking about breaking off from britan that the majority of the people did not support it?

People do not like change no matter what it is. Now do I think the healthcare plan is perfect, NO. But we have to start some where by sitting around and hoping that a perfect plan just falls into place with no effort is not logical.

 

[SpasticGramps]

It is so sad to see people react like this, I really thought better than that. I for one have NO problem with my tax dollars going to help someone else who is sick.

I donate money every month to ST Judes. EVERY month, and I dont make much and I am a full time college student.

What makes me mad about this is the patheticness of people. I can not believe people are really mad about this, it is sad. I for one am for goverment healthcare.

The goverment has to run and control a uncountable number of programs and things. They have to try to make EVERYONE happy, they have to try and do stuff to make everyone who bitchs and moans about other people happy.

As far as I am concerened you people can shove it up your ass. I for one live in the southeast bible belt with so many right wing conservatives, you guys are the biggest group of hypocirtiacal bunch of basterds I have ever seen. You can take your twisted version of god and shove it right where the sun does not shine.

I have read many books about many relegions and I have yet to read about one relegion that would not want healthcare for EVERYONE.

Makes me fucking sick. You all think your going to heaven when you can not even sacrafice for someone you do not know.

EDIT: Also I give PROPS to the American goverment! Good job Obama, Good job to the house, the senate, everyone. FUCK anyone who does not realize what you guys do everyday to try and make everyone happy.

You can not make 100% of people happy. I for one think the goverment needs to quit trying.

God bless the mighty $.

LOL props to the government LMFAO. They only do what 50% or more of the population wants done at anytime. Do you really think the US government is trying to make 100% of us happy?? Props!! Seriously!!!

This has nothing to with religion. The fact we are talking about health care and religion is ridiculous. It's a mute point anyway because nothing is going to come out of the Senate. No way in hell buddy. Elections are next year.

 

[rootfingers]

It's nice this bill passed the house. I hope the reconciled version holds closer to this than the finance committee bill. Health care for all is what I believe in.

Republicans would have you rot before they extended a hand. Well piss on em. The plan they presented yesterday was a farce that would have left millions more not covered in the coming years. They don't care about you or your freedom. They only spout that mess when they are rejecting something that might infringe upon their right to rob you. These are the same people that passed the patriot act in a few days. Freedom my ass. Freedom to choose which of 5 insurance companies to pay premiums to in return for a huge nightmare anytime you need care and if that's all consider yourself lucky, many they succeed in not paying for. The practice of rescission was not made illegal in the republican bill. It was made so in the bill that passed yesterday.

Now the nuts want to come on here and threaten folks about what will happen if this passes! Well piss on you too. Your demented kind are light years behind the rest of us and not even trying to catch up. You talk about leaving your children's children in debt with this bill that would guarantee them health coverage. I can't think of a better investment to make. But that is because money is not the most important factor in my investment decisions. If monetary ROI is yours than you are some one I never want to do business with. You are shit.

Spend trillions on death and destruction the world over but not a penny on your fellow countrymen. You don't deserve to call yourself an American because you obviously don't care about the well being of Americans.

Rant off for now.

 

[FreshlyShaven]

I don't agree with our socialized public school program. I DO believe in education though so don't twist my words.

And how exactly do you expect any but the wealthy to actually go to school unless it's subsidized by the government? Where there are no good public schools, there is always high illiteracy, little democracy and little economic development.

Now, the fire department thing, I dont view that the same way. I don't mind have community services! But there is a balance, a line to everything! We have crossed it years ago.

So you don't mind paying to stop somebody else's property destruction, but you do mind paying for somebody else's life-saving surgery?(Even though you already are- private insurance is every bit as collectivist as governmental insurance; it's just also a lot less efficient, a lot more expensive and a lot less fair.) Why exactly are police stations and fire departments legitimate government domains but hospitals not?

Just because I'm against this plan for health care reform does not mean I don't care about my fellow man/woman.

Regardless of your intentions, the dogma you favor(that insurance should be left up to the individual and should not be provided by the government) kills tens of thousands of your fellow countrymen every year while costing us billions in unnecessary health expenses and thousands of lost jobs(astronomic and unpredictable health insurance expenses are killing our industry and sending companies up to Canada or to Europe where despite the higher taxes and higher costs of living, at least they don't have to worry about paying 15, 000 dollars a year per employee with no guarantee that it won't be 30, 000 in a couple of years)

 

[Frozenguy]

And how exactly do you expect any but the wealthy to actually go to school unless it's subsidized by the government? Where there are no good public schools, there is always high illiteracy, little democracy and little economic development.



So you don't mind paying to stop somebody else's property destruction, but you do mind paying for somebody else's life-saving surgery?(Even though you already are- private insurance is every bit as collectivist as governmental insurance; it's just also a lot less efficient, a lot more expensive and a lot less fair.) Why exactly are police stations and fire departments legitimate government domains but hospitals not?



Regardless of your intentions, the dogma you favor(that insurance should be left up to the individual and should not be provided by the government) kills tens of thousands of your fellow countrymen every year while costing us billions in unnecessary health expenses and thousands of lost jobs(astronomic and unpredictable health insurance expenses are killing our industry and sending companies up to Canada or to Europe where despite the higher taxes and higher costs of living, at least they don't have to worry about paying 15, 000 dollars a year per employee with no guarantee that it won't be 30, 000 in a couple of years)

I don't think you understood one thing I said.

I never said everyone should be left on their own. Quote me saying that.
I said we need a health care plan, but not this one.

Fire, Ambulance, Police services are all for dire emergencies. They are trained professionals. I have no problem paying what little we do to keep that going.

Like I said, there is a line, a spectrum. I feel there should be some community services that make sense.

Anyways, like I said, its unconstitutional, its disgusting and a joke.
Not health care reform, but this specific plan!!!

This isn't about compasion either. I give a lot, a lot. But the point is this:
Its a country of freedom. We shouldn't have to give to those that cant pay for their own health if we dont want to. I do want to, but we shouldn't be forced to..

No matter how gross you think a person is, its his right as an American to not have to.

Socialism isn't what this country was founded on or intended to become.

I'm trying to protect my right to CHOOSE. My choice would be to help (how much I can, again choosing), not to be forced.

Many don't understand the principles of liberty or freedom.

 

[SpasticGramps]

It's nice this bill passed the house. I hope the reconciled version holds closer to this than the finance committee bill. Health care for all is what I believe in.

Republicans would have you rot before they extended a hand. Well piss on em. The plan they presented yesterday was a farce that would have left millions more not covered in the coming years. They don't care about you or your freedom. They only spout that mess when they are rejecting something that might infringe upon their right to rob you. These are the same people that passed the patriot act in a few days. Freedom my ass. Freedom to choose which of 5 insurance companies to pay premiums to in return for a huge nightmare anytime you need care and if that's all consider yourself lucky, many they succeed in not paying for. The practice of rescission was not made illegal in the republican bill. It was made so in the bill that passed yesterday.

Now the nuts want to come on here and threaten folks about what will happen if this passes! Well piss on you too. Your demented kind are light years behind the rest of us and not even trying to catch up. You talk about leaving your children's children in debt with this bill that would guarantee them health coverage. I can't think of a better investment to make. But that is because money is not the most important factor in my investment decisions. If monetary ROI is yours than you are some one I never want to do business with. You are shit.

Spend trillions on death and destruction the world over but not a penny on your fellow countrymen. You don't deserve to call yourself an American because you obviously don't care about the well being of Americans.

Rant off for now.

Piss on you and your nanny state. The issue is obviously more complex than you can grasp. Especially the economics of it.

 

[FreshlyShaven]

I don't think you understood one thing I said.

I never said everyone should be left on their own. Quote me saying that.
I said we need a health care plan, but not this one.

I agree. This plan is too timid. The public option will not be based on Medicare which would have significantly reduced costs for everyone including the government and the system will allow private insurers to dump the sick into the public option, artificially gaming the system. But we need to move towards single payer or at the very least a publicly available Medicare option open to all. That is the only way we can afford to cover everyone. This bill takes us one small step in that direction and it's certainly not enough, but you're opposing that one small step.

Fire, Ambulance, Police services are all for dire emergencies. They are trained professionals. I have no problem paying what little we do to keep that going.

Like I said, there is a line, a spectrum. I feel there should be some community services that make sense.

You say there should be a line. Fine, but why should access to health care, which is considered a right in practically the entire 1st world, be on the other side of that line?

This isn't about compasion either. I give a lot, a lot. But the point is this:
Its a country of freedom. We shouldn't have to give to those that cant pay for their own health if we dont want to. I do want to, but we shouldn't be forced to..

As I said, the insurance model is the only possible model and it must be mandatory. There is no other conceivable alternative- I already explained that. Not being able to see a doctor because of lack of money is not a right.

No matter how gross you think a person is, its his right as an American to not have to.

But every American currently, whether they pay into the insurance pile or not, can go to the ER and society will pay for what can't be collected out of the patient. There is no way of opting-out.

Socialism isn't what this country was founded on or intended to become.

I'm trying to protect my right to CHOOSE. My choice would be to help (how much I can, again choosing), not to be forced.

Many don't understand the principles of liberty or freedom.

If "freedom" means to you the freedom to go broke because of illness or to die from lack of care while paying more to profit-hungry companies, I want no part of it. Part of the social contract includes chipping in to enjoy the benefits of a civilized society. Medical care is no different.

 

[cannabowl]

 

[Sam the Caveman]

All this back and forth bickering, soon to be a locked thread here.

post you thoughts about the original post

 

[JimBeamKush]

Please do not lock the thread because we are bickering serouisly we are mostly all adults here we can bicker if we want.

 

[hippie_lettuce]

Yeah...they should see the bickering that goes on in the "Does God Exist?" thread!

 

[9Lives]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku73y2w5SQw

Pretty much sums up how i think..

Now i'm not naive enough to think that the U.S will have less governement. But as i see it..We will eventually return to free market solutions anyway..like it or not! (as the system collapses) Only then it might not be as pleasant as going to a voting booth..

 

[Machine Elf]

Um.. wow. I have a headache after reading this post.

Excellent!

The government health care plan will bankrupt most private sector insurance companies forcing us to take the public option from the government.

YES! And I already told you that this is a GOOD thing!

Private insurance companies in the USA have made billions of dollars off the deaths of millions of USA taxpaying citizens!

They shouldn't just be put out of business their employees and CEOs and presidents and shareholders should be thrown in fucking jail and the buildings they worked in demolished to smithereens!

Then, you wont' be able to order pizza or buy bacon because the government will find a reason to get a foot into food establishments, and since they know you need a coronary heart valve or something, you can't have that burger. Think I'm crazy?

YES I DO think you are crazy!

Insane! Completely nuts!

The (junk) food industry in USA is one of the major sources of income for USA and one of their last major exports. The FDA will not touch issues like fructose being a poison and other chronic toxins in food like aspartame, because they make so much money for companies. Maybe they will start regulating these things (also a good thing), but the answer is more than definitely a resounding no they won't because the FDA and food industry is super corrupt and (junk) food is again is one of the major USA exports you have left, along with weapons. You can't sell cars and computers what will you sell if you aren't going to sell the fat USA ass to the rest of the world?

AND if you need a coronary surgery, a heart, valve, or some other likewise procedure I sure as fuck hope you are not eating junk food and burgers and total garbage just killing yourself are you crazy!

Yes there is a vested interest in getting sick people as healthy as possible and the food you put into your body is one of the main factors affecting health and disease!

AND if someone is in line for an organ transplant you don't want to give valuable organs that are already in short supply to morons who won't take care of their body and just want a new organ so they can shovel more shit into their body and not take care of themselves (though now we can grow organs from your own cells but they suppress the technology... Another discussion...).
Why give it the life saving rare organ to someone who will only kill themselves in weeks by not taking care of themselves when there are plenty of people who want to be healthy and do their best to take care of themselves and the first step in this is eating healthy.

We need to do what we do for other countries, find volunteers and do those dental/medical clinics for those that truly can't pay for their coverage. For major stuff, then taxes can be subsidized in to that. But for taxpayers to outright PAY for others health coverage or go to jail? Give me a break.

I am laughing out loud. Go to jail? Never saw anything like that in any bill. Find volunteers? Good luck with that buddy are you serious? Tax subsidies are enough are you insane (yes apparently)?!?!?

Yes taxpayers ought to pay for health coverage we do it in other countries USA should catch up with the rest of the world, or how about trying to be the leaders again on this? You pay for fire department, social security, police, etc., etc. you should be able to go into a hospital and get free treatment its not very hard I already told you how you can pay for it all! Why don't you cut military spending stop making UFO drones, satellite missile systems, and multi billion dollar spy planes and get people some healthcare. And while your at it do something about that homeless problem!

And the Vietnam war was meant to be lost. But that is another can of worms.

YEAH K

No you couldn't win it because you can't win a guerrilla war the way USA tries to fight them.

 

[sorcival]

Machine Elf:
READ THIS:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pelosi-buy-a-15000-policy-or-go-to-jail.html

 

[smoke1sun]

Piss on you and your nanny state. The issue is obviously more complex than you can grasp. Especially the economics of it.

This is the ignorance that gets threads like this closed. I like hearing both side of the picture, weather i agree or disagree. Never know when you might learn something. If you would just listen with an open mind.

 

[Texicannibus]

It's nice this bill passed the house. I hope the reconciled version holds closer to this than the finance committee bill. Health care for all is what I believe in.

Republicans would have you rot before they extended a hand. Well piss on em. The plan they presented yesterday was a farce that would have left millions more not covered in the coming years. They don't care about you or your freedom. They only spout that mess when they are rejecting something that might infringe upon their right to rob you. These are the same people that passed the patriot act in a few days. Freedom my ass. Freedom to choose which of 5 insurance companies to pay premiums to in return for a huge nightmare anytime you need care and if that's all consider yourself lucky, many they succeed in not paying for. The practice of rescission was not made illegal in the republican bill. It was made so in the bill that passed yesterday.

Now the nuts want to come on here and threaten folks about what will happen if this passes! Well piss on you too. Your demented kind are light years behind the rest of us and not even trying to catch up. You talk about leaving your children's children in debt with this bill that would guarantee them health coverage. I can't think of a better investment to make. But that is because money is not the most important factor in my investment decisions. If monetary ROI is yours than you are some one I never want to do business with. You are shit.

Spend trillions on death and destruction the world over but not a penny on your fellow countrymen. You don't deserve to call yourself an American because you obviously don't care about the well being of Americans.

Rant off for now.

The word trillion has been thrown around alot in this thread and a considerable number of those times unjustifiably.

Would love to see where you can show us spending 50 trillion on the wars to the poster that posted that. I would also like to see where you come up with your numbers.

I think compassion can come in many forms. My view on compassion is like this by ideologies. This comes from discussing these issues with people of these various ideologies and are simply my interpretation.

Conservative compassion the real thing not a so called compassionate conservative. These are people who are very helpful they go out of there way to help organizations and people that they personally know. They tend to believe in helping a person up and building them up to be able to substain themselves.

Liberal compassion in my experience tends to be handouts. This is giving people money and hoping they help themselves. Mandating work or even asking what the money is spent on could be construed as unpolitically correct. In my experience liberals tend to give less to organizations and people expecting the goverment to give there taxes instead.

Progressive compassion is using the goverments power to create a enviroment in wich they feel there is economic harmony. That is to say that a 'poor' person would have 'affordable' healthcare. I believe these people are similair to conservative compassion in the sense that they both give to organizations and people that support there cause. They want to help people but mostly with the power of the goverment. That same power that comes from the people of course.

Anyhow just my take and hopefully you can understand. A conservative person has a different type of compassion.