Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[Minister]

@ Devilman

I think you are in the right thread.
Judging from your pics I would say root aphid damage for sure. The mite type bug look like one of them, but not positive. Try to catch them in action.
Translucent punktuationmarks on speed.
And seeing other bugs such as springtails, gnat larvae, and so on, does in no way rule out aphids. As a matter of fact it hints that bugs have a way of getting in to your garden.

How are them roots doing, you want them white, not clear as glass noodles.

Google "root aphids cannabis" check some of the videos. Hopefully you can make an id.

If you do have them then other infections may also be present, such as stem rot, because they tear up your plants.
Take cuttings and start over with preventetative imidacloprid treatment and of course a cleaning of your room.
Sorry.

 

[Minister]

Wiki actually has it right for a change. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide which acts as an insect neurotoxin and belongs to a class of chemicals called the neonicotinoids which act on the central nervous system of insects with much lower toxicity to mammals.

As a systemic pesticide, imidacloprid translocates or moves easily in the xylem of plants from the soil into the leaves, fruit, pollen, and nectar of a plant. Imidacloprid also exhibits excellent translaminar movement in plants and can penetrate the leaf cuticle and move readily into leaf tissue

You also got it right. What makes it such a great product for treating root aphids.
Lets have a hurray for bayer and their chemicals.

What you really mean to say, must be, don't pour it down the drain wear glooves and mask when mixing merit 70 and use only in veg.

Imid is used on a lot of crops and essentially replaces more harmfull chemicals. Toxicity in mammals is remarkably low.
Worry about the bees instead.
Peace

 

[pulspc]

hi, ok i am a pocket protector type, that means i know less and have less experience than you all,
my opinion is this is way into biology, ecology, micro niches, opportunistic diseases, symbiont relationships, in general think of fresh water muscles in great lakes, et all,

because from what i can see we got a plague here in colorado,

in my opinion the issues are in any order, light spectrum, humidity, o2 co2 ratios, toxic or contaminated organic matter, microbe diversity, etc,,,

here is a very disturbing research article on horizontal gene transfer, between aphids and archaebacteria,
this is very disturbing, titles to search are,
horizontal gene transfer,

aphid symbiont, symbiosis,

Facultative bacterial symbionts in aphids confer resistance to parasitic wasps,

http://www2.mcdaniel.edu/Biology/botf99/photo/p3igments.html

Facultative Symbionts in Aphids and the Horizontal Transfer of Ecologically Important Traits
Annual Review of Entomology
Vol. 55: 247-266 (Volume publication date January 2010)
First published online as a Review in Advance on September 3, 2009
DOI: 10.1146/annurev-ento-112408-085305

"Although transmitted maternally with high fidelity, facultative symbionts occasionally move horizontally within and between species, resulting in the instantaneous acquisition of ecologically important traits, such as parasitoid defense."

omg, (nice scientific lingo)

also disturbing, these aphids acquire the ability to make their own carotenoids, and produce atp, (energy) from light,

so please the real experts here, retrogrow and all else, look at this and consider,
this is speculation, so plz consider,
i have ideas and am testing possible solutions,
so if you have organic crud, you all know poorly sourced non renewal carbon matter, we really don't know what and where, its a lot of trust in the soil less mix providers, right?
that would be quality control, with bacterial crud,

add an innocent little aphid just trying to survive,
add an atmospheric environment that can, or may or possibly, may have survival qualities that are beneficial to either the aphids or bacteria, including light spectrum?
and a plant bred with genes from all over the planet, so unknown bio adaptability, per each strain,

and poor aphid, puts its new genes on, and has a party, on our plants,

so do we want to be allopathic, and just kill kill kill pesticide biocide etc,,,

yes i realize that it comes down to the real life reality is saving crops and genetics and livelihood, i am not against bayer products, imid or any previous mentioned methods,

i do not know, could it be the archaebacteria, its showing up in more products,
could it be organic cheap biocrud,
the yellow peak at 460 550 nm, of cheap or old lights, carotenoid range,

please consider, remember this is just an idea, with all due respect to the more experienced growers,

for me i love the cannabis and enjoy the challenge of growing,
pcetoyutoo,

 

[RetroGrow]

Careful using Imidacloprid! That stuff is systemic which means it is in the plant tissues for the long term... As in you will be smoking a LOW LEVEL NERVE AGENT (when used on mammals) that will be inhaled while you smoke your herb...

Mmmmm mmmmm finger licking good... You lungs will love you for it...

Wiki actually has it right for a change. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide which acts as an insect neurotoxin and belongs to a class of chemicals called the neonicotinoids which act on the central nervous system of insects with much lower toxicity to mammals.

As a systemic pesticide, imidacloprid translocates or moves easily in the xylem of plants from the soil into the leaves, fruit, pollen, and nectar of a plant. Imidacloprid also exhibits excellent translaminar movement in plants and can penetrate the leaf cuticle and move readily into leaf tissue

Actually, Imidcloprid is approved for use on food crops, and can be applied safely as much as 7 days before harvest on certain foods. This has all been covered before in this thread. That's why they have a "Citrus" & "Fruit & Vegetable" product.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Actually, Imidcloprid is approved for use on food crops, and can be applied safely as much as 7 days before harvest on certain foods. This ha; s all been covered before in this thread. That's why they have a "Citrus" & "Fruit & Vegetable" product.

a quick search also brings up recamended 12 month wait to START sensitive plants in treated soil. - And yes much shorter times. But worthy of concideration.



AND,, while many qoute figgures about 1/2 life and degradation, studys show sunlight degrades Imidclorprid much faster than HID lighting.

Ive been battleing R/A's for a LOOOONG time. Predatory Nematoads, Met 52, (granular and liquid) Caps Packs, Botaniguard, - Hot water flush, and during a up close inspection, I can still find R/A's. The plants look better - but still yellow early in flower and stall or struggle. And I'm still loosing about 1/2 of the harvest.


I'm finishing plants already started in rockwool and starting new clones in organic soil pretreated with Met 52. I think,,,, the change to soil and the early and frequent use of Met 52 will close the book on this all too long nightmare.

But just in case,,,,, whats a good doseage rate per gallon for Dominion 2L; the 21.4% Imidcloprid?

And how many applications and how often, should I plan on doing??

 

[nofriend]

So an update of my RA fight:

After being heavily infested at the end of last year, I took my room down cleaned with bleach. Then I heated the room as hot as I could for as long as I could, about 120F for four hours (I believe this actually broke one of my digital ballast). Then I left the room empty for 2 weeks, no dirt no plants. But guess what!? I lifted up one of my tents and still saw them crawling around! So more bleach and another heat treatment. I then ordered some merit 75 and CAPS bennies. I put in a fresh planting with new dirt and after 1 week started using CAPS bennies in my EWC ACT every other watering (about every ten days). Also at the one week mark I applied azamax at 1/2 ounce per gallon (as I always do for mite prevention) and continued to apply azamax at this rate every other week for the rest of the grow. 2 weeks into veg I hit them with merit 75 at 1 tbsp/10gallons H20. So far no RA or any pests in sight. 2 more weeks of veg and another does of merit 75 at 1tbsp/20gallons H20. Everything has been pest free till today. I noticed something fly past me. So I checked all my sticky traps and found one Adult RA!

To be having adult RA and visibly infested plants the merit75 either stopped working about 2 weeks ago or never worked at all. It has been debated how long the merit75 lasts. Seems its less than 45 days for me.

Hookjaw,

That scares me that you have been using so many pesticides with so little effect.

Granger,
I thought you were having good control over your RA problem, why are you considering Nuke'em?

More about my grow:
Nutes: General Organics full line.
Soil: Sunshine mix #4 Advanced in 2 gallon bags.
Temps: 76-84
Co2: 1100 PPM
Humidity: 40-50%
Semi-sealed room (I say semi-sealed because I dont believe you can ever "seal" a room unless your NASA).

 

[nofriend]

EDIT: Those merit 75 applications are in TSP not TBSP.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Soil: Sunshine mix #4 Advanced .

I've been hearing Sunshine Mixes and Fox Farms comes with R/A's

I know,,, it sucks..

 

[nofriend]

Soil

Soil

Rocky,

So I actually switched to Sunshine after I first noticed the RAs in my room (the dude at the hydro store told me Sunshine was sterilized, not true). I had previously been using Roots Organic.

Are there any soils that we can all agree do NOT come with RAs?

Also, anyone dealing with RAs in their outdoor cannabis gardens? It seems most of us are fighting them indoors. I am helping with an outdoor project this year and will be trying not to cross contaminate.

 

[Granger2]

Nofriend,
I am getting good control, but not elimination. I have to stay on the RA's asses to control them. I bought some Nuke'm as another tool. Also will be starting w/new coco amended with Met52. I'll keep reporting my progress. Good luck. -granger

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Rocky,

Are there any soils that we can all agree do NOT come with RAs?

We can agree all we like, getting the R/A's to agree seems to be the issue.

I'm working the preditory neamatoads and Met-52 and moving everything out of rockwool cubes into soil. I've beat the poo-poo out of myself trying to save the rockwool grow and decided to go back to where I started.

My normal rule is go back to what was working last.

Caps says his packs have a relative of the met bug - I'm guessing he's on the snake-oil bandwagon driving a new Lambo with his profits.

Have you seen the guy selling brewers yeast for $45 a bottle? - We're working the wrong side of this business!!! LOL

I too have dented the R/A populations, but the flower room speaks volumes. And let up just once - even for a little bit and you loose ground FAST.

 

[RetroGrow]

I've been hearing Sunshine Mixes and Fox Farms comes with R/A's

I know,,, it sucks..

You must assume that ALL soil comes with RAs. After all, that's where they live.
They are not in quality coco, though. Have checked new Canna coco with a loupe many times, and it is clean.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

You must assume that ALL soil comes with RAs. After all, that's where they live.

True Dat!

When I decided to go back to soil, Fox Farms about 15 years ago is what I remembered. Now,, for the most part they are ALL mixed locally - so what's in one, there's a good bet is in all.

That might also explain part of the "Localized epidemics" we see.

I know a good ol boy that insists the bugs are the plague of Hydroponic shops - planted by people that would benifit from general decrease in the production of others. He won't tell me if they arrived by space ship.

Then I remembered I got my outbreak shortly after purchacing 8 rockwool cubes at Way To Grow - I noticed thier growing display was INFESTED with flyers when I walked in the door - I needed 8 fresh cubes for seedlings. Possibly the first recorded outbread froom seeds!

If I get this fixed, I dread thinking what looms in the future....

 

[RetroGrow]

True Dat!

When I decided to go back to soil, Fox Farms about 15 years ago is what I remembered. Now,, for the most part they are ALL mixed locally - so what's in one, there's a good bet is in all.

That might also explain part of the "Localized epidemics" we see.

I know a good ol boy that insists the bugs are the plague of Hydroponic shops - planted by people that would benifit from general decrease in the production of others. He won't tell me if they arrived by space ship.

Then I remembered I got my outbreak shortly after purchacing 8 rockwool cubes at Way To Grow - I noticed thier growing display was INFESTED with flyers when I walked in the door - I needed 8 fresh cubes for seedlings. Possibly the first recorded outbread froom seeds!

If I get this fixed, I dread thinking what looms in the future....

Canna coco=no problems....

 

[Granger2]

Have you noticed in grow shops and nurseries, big boxes, etc. that they always have torn and punctured bags of most everything? If you bring in a bagged product that's torn and punctured that has Root mofo Aphids, they crawl out and into other products that were clean when they left the place of origin. Retailers are spreading RA's unintentionally.

Also, in states where you can purchase clones at dispensaries, etc., many of them come with RA's.

I was in the landscaping and nursery business for nearly 30 years, and never heard of RA's in my part of the country. The first time I saw them was when I pulled a sick plant out of its pot filled with Happy Frog. Now they are on my premises and I've imported them into my part of the U.S. Fuck! -granger

 

[EclipseFour20]

Brief update: Treated an infested grow (not mine) using about 2/3 rate of my original recipe (1 tsp each of Orthene + Riptide) and we dunked all plants for 30 minutes, bottom first until the container was submerged plus 1"--and poof, immediate eradication...ZERO ROOT APHIDS! So...for us: 2.3 grams of Orthene and 2.5 ml of Riptide per gallon of water was just as effective as my original recipe of 1 tsp each.

Soil microherd is very important to me (yep, still using raw milk--which is essentially "whey fertilizer"--save the outrageous expense!), so what do the experts say about Orthene's effect on the soil microherd---those smarter than me concluded:

"A Hanford loamy sand, a Domino silt loam, and an Altamont clay loam were treated separately with three repeated applications (20 ppm) of the organophosphate insecticides, acephate (O,S-dimethyl acetylphosphoramidothioate) and Monitor (O,S-dimethyl phosphoramidothioate) over a 50-day time span. Population levels of actinomycetes, bacteria, and fungi were not substantially affected by the addition of either pesticide. Neither could a marked effect be shown upon ammonification, nitrification, sulfur oxidation, or respiration rates. Replica plating failed to isolate bacteria from soils that were adversely affected by either pesticide. It is concluded that neither acephate nor Monitor had any adverse effect upon soil microorganisms."

Source: https://www.agronomy.org/publications/jeq/abstracts/3/4/JEQ0030040327?access=0&view=pdf

BTW...not saying I am a root aphid expert, but let's just say--I had them, tried lots of things (organic and non-organic), posted my experiences in this thread, AND today I have killer harvests and ZERO ROOT APHIDS! Am I suggesting the advice from self appointed root aphid experts might be invalid? No...just beware of those that preach imidacloprid to combat their SINGLE and ONLY encounter with root aphids; my "root aphid knowledge" is from experience--not conjecture.

Google "imidacloprid aphid resistance" and discover why imidacloprid may not be an effective insecticide (hence my Orthene + Riptide solution). Also, soil half-life for imidacloprid is measured in hundreds of days...whereas Acephate it is barely a week!

Cheers!

 

[EclipseFour20]

Interesting study regarding the negative effects of imidacloprid and soil microbes.

"The results showed that the application of imidacloprid has different impacts on soil bacterial community and the numbers of viable gram negative bacteria in soil can be reduced due to long-term use of this pesticide and the residues of this chemical in soil could be deleterious to some groups of soil microbes."

http://www.ipcbee.com/vol4/2-ICESD2011D012.pdf

 

[lou]

Canna coco=no problems....

Wrong the canna coco up in BC is infested...Gold label special blend has been the best but sitting in the shipping yards even that can get infested...Like someone else said you have to assume your medium is contaminated.

 

[RetroGrow]

Wrong the canna coco up in BC is infested...Gold label special blend has been the best but sitting in the shipping yards even that can get infested...Like someone else said you have to assume your medium is contaminated.

Like I said, I test every bag of Canna coco I buy with a microscope quite thoroughly, and have never found any sign of RAs, nor have I ever gotten RAs while using it. I get it fresh from biggest U.S distributor, and it is always bug free. I can't comment on what goes on in Canada, but since RAs live in soil, not coco, I tend to believe my own eyes and experiences with it. I don't assume anything about my medium. I check it. You must assume all soil is infested, because that's where they live, not coco. One of the many reasons I would never grow in soil anymore. So neg rep all you want. I could care less. I only know that the Canna coco I buy has no RAs.

 

[sheik_yerbouti]

Has anyone had any luck getting Met 52 in Canada? plz pm me.

Found out I had root Aphids the other night and I'm gathering as much insecticides as I can. So far been able to order Orthene, spectracide with triazicide and the hydro store can get me merit 75. Any other suggestions for safe contact killers that would be good to do a soak with?