hydrodreams
Member
Is this really a fact? Because I just bought Bayer Confidor (Imidacloprid), which is also oil based.
This Information is very important to me...
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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
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Is this really a fact? Because I just bought Bayer Confidor (Imidacloprid), which is also oil based.
This Information is very important to me...
hydrodreams
Member
Doublepost
Oops tripple post! How can I fix that? damn computer kept telling me it could not reach the host when I was trying to post my reply.
Eclipse,
So I googled imidacloprid aphid resistance and this was my first hit:
http://www.csiro.au/files/files/p859.pdf
The article discusses how quickly aphids are resistant to organophosphates (orthene) and synthetic pyrethroids (riptide). It then discusses how less resistance was seen with imidacloprid.
Still glad to hear it is working for you. I hope it continues to work.
Eclipse,
So I googled imidacloprid aphid resistance and this was my first hit:
http://www.csiro.au/files/files/p859.pdf
The article discusses how quickly aphids are resistant to organophosphates (orthene) and synthetic pyrethroids (riptide). It then discusses how less resistance was seen with imidacloprid.
Still glad to hear it is working for you. I hope it continues to work.
NF...as a preventive measure I used to dunk the plants about a week before transplanting (1/2 gallon to 3 or 5 gallon) and then again transition to flower.
That said...today I do not dunk at all (as I don't have RAs
). But if I were to have a dunking routine, I would dunk any plant that had em, starting with the oldest (most mature one) by working backwards to the root cube (yep, dunk these too), then inspect all plants for RAs about a week to 10 days later...best way to do this is within 2-3 minutes after watering inspect the soil surface, container lip, and container drain holes for scampering RAs.
I firmly believe RAs contaminate "non infested" plants as a result of the grower's practice: like inserting bamboo sticks that are "clean on the outside" but housing a nest of RAs' in the inside--in clean soil, like using dirty container saucers, tools, like not washing hands between tasks, etc.
I have also seen them jump from the container lip, land on the floor...then crawl up the wall, walk on electric cords, and crawl up onto plant saucers of neighboring plants. So using the Orthene + Riptide solution (non-diluted) with a bit of soap as a wall & floor cleaning solution is not an "overkill".
Think like a RA and think how you can outsmart the grower, and respond accordingly; I sanitize all tools and containers with great aggression!
You can prevail! Hope this helps.
That said...today I do not dunk at all (as I don't have RAs
). But if I were to have a dunking routine, I would dunk any plant that had em, starting with the oldest (most mature one) by working backwards to the root cube (yep, dunk these too), then inspect all plants for RAs about a week to 10 days later...best way to do this is within 2-3 minutes after watering inspect the soil surface, container lip, and container drain holes for scampering RAs.I firmly believe RAs contaminate "non infested" plants as a result of the grower's practice: like inserting bamboo sticks that are "clean on the outside" but housing a nest of RAs' in the inside--in clean soil, like using dirty container saucers, tools, like not washing hands between tasks, etc.
I have also seen them jump from the container lip, land on the floor...then crawl up the wall, walk on electric cords, and crawl up onto plant saucers of neighboring plants. So using the Orthene + Riptide solution (non-diluted) with a bit of soap as a wall & floor cleaning solution is not an "overkill".
Think like a RA and think how you can outsmart the grower, and respond accordingly; I sanitize all tools and containers with great aggression!
You can prevail! Hope this helps.
NF....read this article (notice the publication date) especially the first paragraph under "Results" on page two...I attribute this article for directing me to Orthene.
http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/root-aphid-control-article.pdf
Root aphids (which there are 100s plus multiple variations) can be devastating...but so can insecticide residual. Hence I examine half-lives as one indicator and then experimented with different combinations and dosages of various insecticides before settling on the current recipe of Orthene + Riptide.
Unfortunately, there is no "silver bullet" that is without "some issue"--so the choice I made was to select the "best" from several "bad" alternatives.
http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/root-aphid-control-article.pdf
Root aphids (which there are 100s plus multiple variations) can be devastating...but so can insecticide residual. Hence I examine half-lives as one indicator and then experimented with different combinations and dosages of various insecticides before settling on the current recipe of Orthene + Riptide.
Unfortunately, there is no "silver bullet" that is without "some issue"--so the choice I made was to select the "best" from several "bad" alternatives.
Regarding Oil based items...except for fish, everyother oil based product that I introduced to my plant's roots was not warmly received by my girls. Even Azatrol/Azamax drenches caused the girls to "freeze up" for a few days.
T
TribalSeeds
NF...as a preventive measure I used to dunk the plants about a week before transplanting (1/2 gallon to 3 or 5 gallon) and then again transition to flower.
That said...today I do not dunk at all (as I don't have RAs
I firmly believe RAs contaminate "non infested" plants as a result of the grower's practice: like inserting bamboo sticks that are "clean on the outside" but housing a nest of RAs' in the inside--in clean soil, like using dirty container saucers, tools, like not washing hands between tasks, etc.
I have also seen them jump from the container lip, land on the floor...then crawl up the wall, walk on electric cords, and crawl up onto plant saucers of neighboring plants. So using the Orthene + Riptide solution (non-diluted) with a bit of soap as a wall & floor cleaning solution is not an "overkill".
Think like a RA and think how you can outsmart the grower, and respond accordingly; I sanitize all tools and containers with great aggression!
You can prevail! Hope this helps.
FUCK!
Guess Ill switch to the plastic
What organic approaches have you done to try and eliminate RA?
A year on , soil drenching and clean cuts along with no more recycling has removed the problem , improved quarantine of traded clones has stopped any recurrence.
Worst aspect of RA,s to me is the length of time you can have them before realiseing , had spread to several locals and ruined any reputation i had.
First sign , unexpected yellowing.
Usual response to a perceived nute issue makes the situation worse.
Soft limp leaves and stalled growth within a week , no further uptake of water.
Complete collapse within another week .
Fungus and rusts often atack the weakened plant , leading to another false diagnosis.
Rootball autopsy , carefully washed off and no fine white roots left , haveing being eaten , mainstem hard as wood.
Hate not reuseing the soil media , but can see no method of ensureing none are present even after long composting.
Worst aspect of RA,s to me is the length of time you can have them before realiseing , had spread to several locals and ruined any reputation i had.
First sign , unexpected yellowing.
Usual response to a perceived nute issue makes the situation worse.
Soft limp leaves and stalled growth within a week , no further uptake of water.
Complete collapse within another week .
Fungus and rusts often atack the weakened plant , leading to another false diagnosis.
Rootball autopsy , carefully washed off and no fine white roots left , haveing being eaten , mainstem hard as wood.
Hate not reuseing the soil media , but can see no method of ensureing none are present even after long composting.
Good question...
Botanigard (which is not officially organic--but the company does make an organic variety called Mycotrol O)...and is super costly. 2 quarts are needed to mix 100 gallons (I paid $70+ for a quart of Botanigard) and two or more applications are necessary.
Treating my normal 5 gallon containers--I used between 2-3 gallons of the Botanigard solution for each plant (4-6 gallons total for two applications), so doing the math--100 gallons serviced between 17-25 plants...at a cost of $140+ (plus labor for 2 applications)...or based on 25 plants...a per plant cost of $5.60. Got 100 plants, then it will cost you $560.
A can of $20 Orthene contains 342 grams and assuming 3.42 grams per gallon--should render 100 gallons and will service 34-50 plants (single application)...for a per plant cost of $0.40 (based on 50 plants per 100 gallons).
A bottle of Riptide is about half the cost of Evergreen and is a great all around pesticide (yes it has PBO--but I am ok with using less pyrethrin and gaining the synergy of the two than adhering to strict organic principles). I recently paid $115 for 64 oz bottle of Riptide...calculating 100 gallons to service 34-50 plants at the rate of 5 ml per gallon (I now use 2.5) should be about 26% of the bottle or $30 total...or a per plant cost of $0.60 (based on 50 plants per 100 gallons).
So...the Orthene + Riptide should cost me about $1 per plant...for 100 plants my investment is a single benjamin and half the labor.
For me Botanigard was successful about 85% of the time (RAs still were present on 15% of the treated plants)...and the Orthene + Riptide was 100% successful.
Cost and effectiveness were the determining factors...having the microbes breakdown Orthene in the soil (feeding the herd) was kinda of bonus...lol.
Anyway...100% eradication of Root Aphids was very, very, very important to me. Hope this helps.
On Edit--For what it is worth, here is the link to Botanigard's Root Aphid routine....http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/controlling-root-aphids-with-botanigard.pdf
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I use 2-2.5 cups per 10 gallons of soil neem and crab meel.
I perform 2 foilars sprays a week until 2 or 3 week into flower for IPM
Unfortunately (or fortunately for me) the insects came into my garden on their own accord. I have seen several different soil mites/insects but the one that I have identified that is important with FG and RA is the hypoaspis miles. I have seen several crawling in and out of the top layer of soil. They are very small and can barely be seen with the naked eye but you can see them.
Keeping a medium that encourages such mites to come is the real issue....
Not that long ago I took cutting (in EWC and perlite) and placed them in a cabinet in my growroom. Within days after opening the hood to the cutting tray FG's emerge. When I transplanted those clones about 1 month later, not one FG is around. Those FG never even made it to the vegging or flowering plants ALL IN THE SAME ROOM.
Its all about balance....
Below is my foilar mix for fungi/disease/insect control (top dwelling):
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Neem, Si and Aloe Vera are used as my base. Getting temp for the emulsification is critical.
Will add in the below depending on the situation:
Lavender (Fresh,well blended and strained)
Thyme (Fresh,well blended and strained)
Rosemary (Fresh,well blended and strained)
Bio-ag Ful-powr ( use once or twice a month)
Kelp (soak and strain)
alfalfa (soak and strain)
Coconut water
Liquid seaweed
Some plants are sensitive to the mix and must have toned down versions created.
Spray every leaf (including undersides, stalks, etc)
I also rotate my aloe from the huge fillets to the medium sized red tipped variety (all fresh).
Crab and neem meal are in the recycled soil mix (chitin)
This has helped keep PM and unwanted insect away from garden. This regiment starts when clones are transplanted to recycle soil and stopped around 2 or 3 week into flowering.
The compounds/chemicals in a variety of my items are used for the "diseases suppression" and SARS activation capabilities as well as natural fungicides and insect deterrents. Must give credit to CC for it though.... " [/FONT]
Excellent control regime Neo! Now, if we can only develop a routine that knocks down RAs...you know, the grower that really believes 100% organic but can not get passed the Root Aphid pestilence. Once upon a time, I was that grower...and I tired everything within reason.
Where do RAs come from? Japanese Maple Trees, conifers, "christmas trees" (real big issue for that industry!), lettuce and rice growers are targets as well. My vote is RAs are part of nature and will seek plants they find acceptable.
Maybe excess Nitrogen (which cannabis growers are usually guilty of using too much of) is the attraction catalyst...or maybe the carriers are dogs, as most of us have or know someone that has a dog (and I have 2 of em).
Don't know...but I do know cleanliness is next to godliness for sure!
Where do RAs come from? Japanese Maple Trees, conifers, "christmas trees" (real big issue for that industry!), lettuce and rice growers are targets as well. My vote is RAs are part of nature and will seek plants they find acceptable.
Maybe excess Nitrogen (which cannabis growers are usually guilty of using too much of) is the attraction catalyst...or maybe the carriers are dogs, as most of us have or know someone that has a dog (and I have 2 of em).
Don't know...but I do know cleanliness is next to godliness for sure!
Wait until you encounter Broad mites. You will long for the days of root aphids. The easiest way to get rid of RAs is to stop using soil, 'cause that's where they live.
One treatment in coco, and you will never see them again.
hydrodreams
Member
I just applied Bayer Confidor. I will know in a few weeks if it was worth it.
But generally I still feel unsure if it really is root aphids:
Therefore I ask you growers what could be the most similar pest that could have make me a false diagnosis?
But generally I still feel unsure if it really is root aphids:
- I have a very few fliers that I get to see from time to time
- I get to see the very small transparent/white ones outside the soil from time to time
- But I never get to see any of the big ones. I can pull the whole rootball out of the soil and I dont find a big one
Therefore I ask you growers what could be the most similar pest that could have make me a false diagnosis?
Much earlier in the thread we identified multiple types of RAs. Just because you havent seen a big black one doesnt mean you dont have them. The fact that you see fliers infrequently makes me think that you do have aphids.
If you can catch a flier and look at it under a magnifying glass you can be sure, flying aphids are pretty unique looking if you can get a good peek at one.
