you test it on your plants, buddy.
all i know is that low DO is bad.
I wouldn't let my DWC girls go 10 minutes without air.....
Thanks buddy, my plants are currently under control but if they become heavily infested again I will certainly consider it.
I have seen a few posters give up and scrap their whole grow. Maybe before destroying their plants they could consider trying soap soaks of various lengths to see if they kill the plants or not, in the name of advancing real knowledge.
nematodes are most certainly not insects.
phylum Nematoda, actually.
good luck getting up a sizable population before the root aphids take over!
pyrethrins do work.
you need to dunk the whole rooting medium of each and every plant for ~15 seconds so the pyrethrins can permeate.
then you need to repeat in 3-4 days to break their breeding cycle.
then you need to repeat in about a week in case of any dormant, unaffected aphids.
and again in 3-4 days.
meanwhile you should be sterilizing your room and changing your intake filter.
mind you, this only applies to indoor containerized grows.
otherwise imid is it.
so you tried it once.I repeat: Pyrethrins do not work against these. I completely submerged them in pyrethrins, and, as I said, they swam out and walked away. Did nothing to them Waste of time.
Since I clearly asked for far too much information in far too many places, here is a questionnaire I ask that everyone please fill out if you have root aphids, phantom "magnesium/potassium lockout/deficiency" symptoms, or both.
Yesspleebale said:1)Do you have root aphids? (if so please answer A- )
Yes, under a 10x loupe I have clear tank beetles and when dead on the floor there are black ones of the same but largerspleebale said:A)Do they look like any of the bugs pictured/linked in the first post? ("crabs" "tank beetles" "micros" or "psulloxera"? - use at least 10X magnification to see. If not, describe. Post a pic if possible!
yes but very few since I have been battling them. I was able to view them under 10x and see the clear difference between them and fungus gnatsspleebale said:B)Do you have fliers (winged version)? [have you ever seen them]
No I haven't but have noticed brown mushy roots in first few mm of soilspleebale said:C)Have you noticed a waxy residue in the medium, on and around roots?
First spray was floromite and azamax and a second spray with the dont bug me pyreth. 4 days later had dead bugs everywhere. When this method was tried later with an azamax drench, no dead were seen. I don't know if this is due to decreased numbers or something else. Recently io used Bayer tree and shrub with imid. I can't find any bugs on smaller plants but my largest still have the little clear ones running around in the soilspleebale said:D)Have you tried any control methods/substances? What has and has not worked?
Yesspleebale said:2)Do you have nutrient lockout/deficiency symptoms? (if so please answer A- )
absolutelyspleebale said:A)Do they seem to be connected to/tied to root aphid population?
that and nutrient burn/deficiencyspleebale said:B)Do they look like magnesium or potassium deficiency? (Intervenal chlorosis, little blotches of tan, necrotic tissue form in between veins and at leaf tips/margins, then spread and take over leaf edges and tips?)
Room, high air exchange, 80 degrees 29% RHspleebale said:3)What is your grow setup like? (closet/room, high air exchange vs. closed w/ CO2)
In sunshine mix34 and earthworm castings in beer cup to 15 gallon containers 2000wspleebale said:4)What medium/method do you do? (5-gal soil bags?/16 plants in NFT per 600W?/Bubble buckets w/ hydroton?)
General Organics normal feeding schedulespleebale said:5)What nutrient line do you use? (recipe/ppms?)
besides pesticides I spray with a kelp mix PH of 6.4spleebale said:6)Do you foliar-spray your plants? What do you spray with? pH of spray?
No! Thank you for the work you're putting inspleebale said:Thank you!
questionnaire I ask that everyone please fill out if you have root aphids, phantom "magnesium/potassium lockout/deficiency" symptoms, or both.
1)Do you have root aphids?
YES
A)Do they look like any of the bugs pictured/linked in the first post? Small black and green aphids, 2 cornicles on their back as seen thru 30x magnification
B)Do you have fliers (winged version)? A small amount But no longer seen since treating with the Imid
C)Have you noticed a waxy residue in the medium, on and around roots? Yes, some plants more then others
D)Have you tried any control methods/substances?
What did NOT work?
Neem oil (foliar and soil drench)
Gnatrol
Zero Tolerance (Foliar and soil drench-soil drench killed plants)
SM-90 soil drench (did not keep submerged, will try this for 5 minutes and see plants response)
What might have worked? Rotating the following depending on what stage they my plants are in:
Bayer Fruit, Citris and Vegatable w/ Imid at 6ml per gallon as a soil drench (1 time application only! during flip or veg phase)
Azamax/Azatrol at med-high dilution rate as a soil drench (2 applications at 10 day interval)
Pyrethrum TR bomb (2 applications to eliminate fliers at 2 week interval)
2)Do you have nutrient lockout/deficiency symptoms? YES
A)Do the symptoms seem to be connected to/tied to root aphid population? YES
B)Do they look like magnesium or potassium deficiency? BOTH
3)What is your grow setup like? 8 x 5 x 8 Secret Jardin tent (600w HPS and 2 400w vertical CMHs)
4)What medium/method do you do? Various sized soil containers, 5 gal- 3 gallon containers
5)What nutrient line do you use? Botanicare Cal/Mag and Liquid Karma, Humbolt nutes (master A and B), Super Thrive, Rhizotonic, Hygrozyme
6)Do you foliar-spray your plants? Foliar feed 2x in veg, Neem + SM-90 foliar in veg and 1st week of flower; Sulfur burn 3x during flower (3rd, 4th and 5th week of flower)
Since I clearly asked for far too much information in far too many places, here is a questionnaire I ask that everyone please fill out if you have root aphids, phantom "magnesium/potassium lockout/deficiency" symptoms, or both.
1)Do you have root aphids? (if so please answer A-D) I believe so.
A)Do they look like any of the bugs pictured/linked in the first post? ("crabs" "tank beetles" "micros" or "psulloxera"? - use at least 10X magnification to see. If not, describe. Post a pic if possible! I don't have a lense, and my eyes aren't good enough for 100% identification but the symptoms fit perfectly.
B)Do you have/have you had fliers (winged version)? - Do they look like the two pictured at the top of the first post, or like the "Tank Beetle" fliers pictured here: http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/20934mass0bugs.jpg (note the two winged creatures in the pic: one looks just like the Tank Beetles but with wings [round, beetle-like aphid] and the other has a banded abdomen and looks like a bee. Call the "Tank Beetle" fliers "Tank Fliers" and the bee-like creatures "bee-bugs" - I am assuming the latter is not aphids, but let us know what you have either way) Yes
C)Have you noticed a waxy residue in the medium, on and around roots? No
D)Have you tried any control methods/substances? What has and has not worked? Neem Oil, Azamax, Nematodes, Spectracide, Gnatrol, Pyrethrins. The neem, azamax and spectracide seemed like they helped a little bit, but I couldn't keep using neem. Couldn't afford more azamax. Spectracide might be helping, but not nearly enough to avoid nute lock out. Gnatrol did nothing. Pyrethrins did nothing.
2)Do you have nutrient lockout/deficiency symptoms? (if so please answer A-B)
A)Do the symptoms seem to be connected to/tied to root aphid population? Yes
B)Do they look like magnesium or potassium deficiency? (Intervenal chlorosis, little blotches of tan, necrotic tissue form in between veins and at leaf tips/margins, then spread and take over leaf edges and tips?) Yes
3)What is your grow setup like? (closet/room, high air exchange vs. closed w/ CO2) 2600w flowering, tents, normal exchange, 80F, 30% RH
4)What medium/method do you do? (5-gal soil bags?/16 plants in NFT per 600W?/Bubble buckets w/ hydroton?) 7 gal, Organic soil, 4 per light.
5)What nutrient line do you use? (recipe/ppms?) FF peace of mind, BioCanna, Liquid Karma, Honey ES, super thrive, and some what ever's laying around. As they ask for it.
6)Do you foliar-spray your plants? What do you spray with? pH of spray? Did once this round. With some cannaboost. Didn't PH. Just had the bottle sitting around, gave it a little kick but nothing special.
Thank you!
thank you.
so you tried it once.
not over and over again as per instructions?
i wonder why it didn't work then......
I agree with you that imid is the way to go. However, with all due respect, you did not follow the directions. I have used pyrethrins successfully and it is a long and arduous process. I only recommend it for the obsessive hippies who don't use poison or for folks that are too far into flower to use imid safely.So, I say again, with all respect, pyrethrins do not kill these things, and neither do other "normal" insecticides that you might have around. ......
The key to killing them is Imid.
Period.
Has anybody posted actual results from using Botanigard yet? I saw a few people considering but missed seeing any actual results. I wish they sold smaller amounts to try out first, that stuff is expensive.
I have had good luck with nematodes and Azamax drenches so far, contrary to other peoples experience. Maybe we are dealing with different species or completely different families as in the case of phylloxera.
I noticed my fliers liked the shiniest, brightest leaves, in the sweet spot, but they were always dead when I found them. At first, before I had them under control, there would be a couple of dead ones on the same leaf, even the same blade. I would remove them and then the next day there would be one or two more on the exact same leaf on the exact same blade! Always dead! Very bizarre.
I also noticed dozens of dead fliers piled in between the spiral of a compact fluorescent bulb in my closet that is rarely on.
They seem to be attracted to bright and shiny, so I hung a blue sticky trap directly under a compact fluorescent bulb in another room and left the light on 24 hours a day. The little bastards covered the trap within a day or two. The same sticky traps on the periphery of my actual grow area barely only attracted one or two previously.