Gday folks! I'm interested in freeze drying, which is how I stumbled across this thread and site. Thanks for all your time and info folks, I think freeze drying is the proper way to go, especially if you're using for medicinal reasons. I believe this link <https://www.*********.com/community/threads/a-detailed-explanation-of-why-fast-curing-buds-in-preferable-to-slow-curing.65252/> can help expand your topic. Let me know what you think
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Finish drying my bud in the freezer in my kitchen?!?
- Thread starter jus'plain'gill
- Start date
Whoops, looks like I can't post the link for some reason. I'm going to quote the opening paragraphs of YarraSparra, from another growing community
"If you are licenced and sell to dispensaries then you are in the business of manufacturing medicine and the grade of any pharmaceutical commodity should be of the utmost importance. If dispensaries become the source go to for the highest grade weed, they will inevitably become more popular. This means more sales, more tax to the government, thus politicians will be incentivised to push for national legalization. I believe a big part of producing med grade weed is in the curing process. However, there is serious conjecture between cultural curing practices and the science based methods used by large companies like GWPharma (no I don’t work for them and have no opinion about their products).
There are many pros & cons for fast curing weed with dehydrators as opposed to slow curing (in air). Slow curing in the presence of oxygen (and moisture) makes no logical sense - purely from a biochemical and pharmaceutical point of view - for one thing, slow curing causes the eventual yellow-browning of buds caused by polyphenol oxidases. This should be avoided to arrest the bio-chemical conversion of soluble nitrogen into ammonia since these soluble nitrogenous constituents can transform into aroma-bearing constituents at a later stage.
Consider the major components of a bud and the effects from scenesence and the environment. The obvious place to start is the trichomes. I will only briefly touch on cannabinoids and volatile terpenes, as there is already a ton of info out there. As most of you are already aware, CBN is an oxide of THC and CBD, but it is by no means the only break down product. As such, CBN content has been used by forensic specialists to quantify the original THC/CBD content. This is typically calculated at approximately a 1:6 ratio (this figure varies slightly depending on the study sited). That means if 2% of your weed is CBN, then 10% is other break down products of degraded THC/CBD. Oxidation, light, heat and moisture (which facilitates microbial and enzymatic activity) are all time dependent factors that contributing to the deterioration of trichomes.
Carbohydrates are important components too. Dried buds are composed mostly of lignocellulosic material. The beta bonds between residues of cellulose means this material is particularly resistant to hydrolysis with the exception of exogenous cellulases or acids secreted by pathogens such as molds, (plants do not make endogenous celluloytic enzymes as, to the detriment of plant growth, this would obviously be structurally counter productive). Moisture + time will facilitate this type of undesirable microbial activity. Furthermore, these pathogens will not liberate residues to enhance taste, but rather ferment them into alcohols and potentially generating ketones and aldehydes, and releasing CO2 in the process. (Remember CO2 has mass and I will talk about this next).
Pectins and starches, although present in much lower amounts than cellulosic material, account for the bulk of the remaining polysaccharide content. Residual starch related compounds, namely amylose and amylopectin affect the combustion rate of weed. Anecdotal reports suggests both impart a bitter irritating taste when smoking, although I haven’t managed to ascertain how or why this may be the case. Most of the glucose is liberated from starches by amylolytic activity within 2-3days post harvest. The initial high RH and elevated temps in a sealed chamber with dehydrators/dehumidifiers, promotes amylolytic activity. Extending the curing time past this point will liberate negligible amounts of soluble sugars at the cost of various degradative processes ultimately leading to deterioration of the buds.One of these processes is the oxidative respiration of starch-liberated glucose into CO2. This increases with time and leads to loss a significant loss of dry weight of the material. Most people are probably unaware of this.
Pigment degradation is said to enhance flavor. Both neophytadiene and phytol, from 2-ethyl-3-methymaleic acid, are generated by degradation of chlorophyll. I can’t find evidence that these compounds impart a more pleasant taste when combusted than chlorophyll, but there are tentative references in some literature that suggests this is the case. The issue is further complicated because chlorophyll is subject to a mutitude of other enzymatic processes and trying to deduce the aromatic qualities of all of these products under various combustion conditions would involve a fairly in-depth study. The same goes for carotenoids. At least 20 known smaller compounds arise from the oxidative cleavage of various bonds in carotenoids. Conserving the green/yellow color of weed indicates that the oxidation of polyphenols to dark colored pigments (oxidative enzymatic browning) has been successfully suppressed. Arresting pigment degradation may or may not be beneficial to taste - I’m sitting on the fence with this one. If someone in the field knows of some studies that provide an explanation of how any why this would be so, great, please join the discussion.
Other factors affecting taste may include hydrolysis of proteins into free amino acids and subsequent reaction of the free amino acids with free sugars to form amadori compounds, variable changes in polyphenols, degradation of terpenes and sugar esters into more volatile constituents, and the conversion of nitrate into nitrite.
That’s just a brief summary of some of the biochemical processes that take place in buds post harvest. Although plausible, there is a lack of explanations exactly how these break down products enhance taste upon combustion. I believe there may be a much simpler explanation which may be (at least part of) the reason, and probably over looked.
Fast cured weed, or properly freeze dried weed is highly desiccated when cured. Conversely, buds that have been air cured without dehydrators will typically retain a moisture content of 10-15%. A lower moisture content means the material will burn hotter, and compounds in the trichomes such as terpenes and other volatiles have a higher likely hood of undergoing pyrolysis (combusting into CO or CO2) instead of vaporizing. Unmodified volatiles will certainly impart a different (and possibly nicer) flavor to their pyrolytic breakdown products, and to me this seems like a much more plausible explanation for the “harsher taste” of fast cured weed - Occam’s razor.
So what does all this mean to the Layman? Slow curing weed and burping glass jars only exacerbates oxidative degradation (deterioration) of the bud. Although it’s “possible” some of these break down products impart a nicer flavor when smoked, it will come a the cost weight loss, overall quality and potency.
Now for the good news. Follow a simple methodology based on what I just discussed. Fast dry cure, then store in the dark, in the cold, with a sizeable quantity of desiccant, or in CO2 or nitrogen gas - you have many options. When it comes time to bag up, then and only then, is a single ‘burp’ (allowing rehydration of the buds to that 10-15% mark) required. You will know when the buds are ready when they are slightly sticky and pliable again. A little squeeze and sniff will be proof of all the goodness you have retained.
It’s of my humble opinion this is the most practical and logical way to retain weight, quality and potency, especially for the purposes of high grade med weed.
YS "
"If you are licenced and sell to dispensaries then you are in the business of manufacturing medicine and the grade of any pharmaceutical commodity should be of the utmost importance. If dispensaries become the source go to for the highest grade weed, they will inevitably become more popular. This means more sales, more tax to the government, thus politicians will be incentivised to push for national legalization. I believe a big part of producing med grade weed is in the curing process. However, there is serious conjecture between cultural curing practices and the science based methods used by large companies like GWPharma (no I don’t work for them and have no opinion about their products).
There are many pros & cons for fast curing weed with dehydrators as opposed to slow curing (in air). Slow curing in the presence of oxygen (and moisture) makes no logical sense - purely from a biochemical and pharmaceutical point of view - for one thing, slow curing causes the eventual yellow-browning of buds caused by polyphenol oxidases. This should be avoided to arrest the bio-chemical conversion of soluble nitrogen into ammonia since these soluble nitrogenous constituents can transform into aroma-bearing constituents at a later stage.
Consider the major components of a bud and the effects from scenesence and the environment. The obvious place to start is the trichomes. I will only briefly touch on cannabinoids and volatile terpenes, as there is already a ton of info out there. As most of you are already aware, CBN is an oxide of THC and CBD, but it is by no means the only break down product. As such, CBN content has been used by forensic specialists to quantify the original THC/CBD content. This is typically calculated at approximately a 1:6 ratio (this figure varies slightly depending on the study sited). That means if 2% of your weed is CBN, then 10% is other break down products of degraded THC/CBD. Oxidation, light, heat and moisture (which facilitates microbial and enzymatic activity) are all time dependent factors that contributing to the deterioration of trichomes.
Carbohydrates are important components too. Dried buds are composed mostly of lignocellulosic material. The beta bonds between residues of cellulose means this material is particularly resistant to hydrolysis with the exception of exogenous cellulases or acids secreted by pathogens such as molds, (plants do not make endogenous celluloytic enzymes as, to the detriment of plant growth, this would obviously be structurally counter productive). Moisture + time will facilitate this type of undesirable microbial activity. Furthermore, these pathogens will not liberate residues to enhance taste, but rather ferment them into alcohols and potentially generating ketones and aldehydes, and releasing CO2 in the process. (Remember CO2 has mass and I will talk about this next).
Pectins and starches, although present in much lower amounts than cellulosic material, account for the bulk of the remaining polysaccharide content. Residual starch related compounds, namely amylose and amylopectin affect the combustion rate of weed. Anecdotal reports suggests both impart a bitter irritating taste when smoking, although I haven’t managed to ascertain how or why this may be the case. Most of the glucose is liberated from starches by amylolytic activity within 2-3days post harvest. The initial high RH and elevated temps in a sealed chamber with dehydrators/dehumidifiers, promotes amylolytic activity. Extending the curing time past this point will liberate negligible amounts of soluble sugars at the cost of various degradative processes ultimately leading to deterioration of the buds.One of these processes is the oxidative respiration of starch-liberated glucose into CO2. This increases with time and leads to loss a significant loss of dry weight of the material. Most people are probably unaware of this.
Pigment degradation is said to enhance flavor. Both neophytadiene and phytol, from 2-ethyl-3-methymaleic acid, are generated by degradation of chlorophyll. I can’t find evidence that these compounds impart a more pleasant taste when combusted than chlorophyll, but there are tentative references in some literature that suggests this is the case. The issue is further complicated because chlorophyll is subject to a mutitude of other enzymatic processes and trying to deduce the aromatic qualities of all of these products under various combustion conditions would involve a fairly in-depth study. The same goes for carotenoids. At least 20 known smaller compounds arise from the oxidative cleavage of various bonds in carotenoids. Conserving the green/yellow color of weed indicates that the oxidation of polyphenols to dark colored pigments (oxidative enzymatic browning) has been successfully suppressed. Arresting pigment degradation may or may not be beneficial to taste - I’m sitting on the fence with this one. If someone in the field knows of some studies that provide an explanation of how any why this would be so, great, please join the discussion.
Other factors affecting taste may include hydrolysis of proteins into free amino acids and subsequent reaction of the free amino acids with free sugars to form amadori compounds, variable changes in polyphenols, degradation of terpenes and sugar esters into more volatile constituents, and the conversion of nitrate into nitrite.
That’s just a brief summary of some of the biochemical processes that take place in buds post harvest. Although plausible, there is a lack of explanations exactly how these break down products enhance taste upon combustion. I believe there may be a much simpler explanation which may be (at least part of) the reason, and probably over looked.
Fast cured weed, or properly freeze dried weed is highly desiccated when cured. Conversely, buds that have been air cured without dehydrators will typically retain a moisture content of 10-15%. A lower moisture content means the material will burn hotter, and compounds in the trichomes such as terpenes and other volatiles have a higher likely hood of undergoing pyrolysis (combusting into CO or CO2) instead of vaporizing. Unmodified volatiles will certainly impart a different (and possibly nicer) flavor to their pyrolytic breakdown products, and to me this seems like a much more plausible explanation for the “harsher taste” of fast cured weed - Occam’s razor.
So what does all this mean to the Layman? Slow curing weed and burping glass jars only exacerbates oxidative degradation (deterioration) of the bud. Although it’s “possible” some of these break down products impart a nicer flavor when smoked, it will come a the cost weight loss, overall quality and potency.
Now for the good news. Follow a simple methodology based on what I just discussed. Fast dry cure, then store in the dark, in the cold, with a sizeable quantity of desiccant, or in CO2 or nitrogen gas - you have many options. When it comes time to bag up, then and only then, is a single ‘burp’ (allowing rehydration of the buds to that 10-15% mark) required. You will know when the buds are ready when they are slightly sticky and pliable again. A little squeeze and sniff will be proof of all the goodness you have retained.
It’s of my humble opinion this is the most practical and logical way to retain weight, quality and potency, especially for the purposes of high grade med weed.
YS "
brown_thumb
Active member
I found that THC 'FRAMER' thread but can't post the link either. I can't even post the name of the website without the prefix and suffix. Hell, I can't even post the two words in succession without misspelling one word. WTF??
Do you still start drying in the shoe boxes or did you go back to hang drying before freezer cure? Any additional thoughts on box drying? Do you just set it an forget it for those 7-10 days? Any help appreciated an this is a helpful/great thread jpg.
jus'plain'gill
Active member
HeriMerry,
This has been such a work in progress, and it is still evolving to this day. I do like a slower drying time before buds go in the freezer for the cure, and recently I have been able to do this by drying the plant whole. This means I don't have to chop the plant up into "shoe box sized" buds until they are dry enough for the freezer, which is usually (and ideally for me) 7 days from the chop.
I feel there is more than one way to skin this cat, so I keep playing around with the process. Its fun switching things up, and as long as I keep getting good results, it just adds to the pleasure of this hobby. Keeps it interesting.
I also look forward to experimenting more with the "cobbing" method. Its at the opposite end of the spectrum, the extreme of heat instead of cold. Check it out if you haven't yet. Very fascinating stuff.
I'm high. And rambling. Thanks for checking out this thread and commenting, I wish you much success! Take care,
.JPG
Thanks jpg,
I cut my plant down an put them in open paper bags after a rough trim. I use bags because my humidity is below 20% an my last harvest I dried the whole plant an had crispy buds in 2-3 days that measured in the 40% range when jarred up. So I decided to bag them an shake the bags a few times a day. They got ready for the freezer in 5 days, crispy on the outside an spongy . I have jarred up weed for 20+ years an the results(ongoing) after 7 days have been unbelievable. I've have a critical+ an the flavors are strong an so is the odor. I do not remember reading this, but after 12 hours my fridge area was stinky, so I put some boxes of baking soda down there an noticed 12 hours later that the weed in the freezer had almost no smell. I took the baking soda out of the fridge an the odor/smell came back an has not left since. Everyday the smoke gets better . Thanks again for helping people who might not have ideal conditions to cure.
You mentioned cob curing, have you tried it yet an do you plan on using the freezer cure after the cob cure?
Aww
Man, do I hate autistics on the internet! In the good old days of inter-personal connections they were never seen or heard because they are usually social misfits - but the internet concentrates them like butane...
I hate them not because they are happy to type away paragraphs of minutia when a simple sentence would suffice, but because they are happy to misconstrue that minutia into long chains of rotten logic.
Pretty much every turn of the quoted crap is such an intellectual mess that it almost migranes me to read, and I would be bodily sickened attempting to argue through such an Esherian psychosis.
Sorry to bother you brother. As I mentioned, IC wouldn't accept putting in a link from another cannabis site, which I would have rather done. The information is good and I believe fits in well with the discussion here. In the end, these threads are all about sharing information to help improve our skills, it certainly wasn't my intention to upset anyone.
brown_thumb
Active member
I seldom pay any attention to those who bitch and insult because they're not worth my time and energy.
artfog
Active member
If your buds are too dry when they go into the freezer they will come out very dry. Dry them alittle moist.
Thanks bud, nice to hear. I'm just trying to help, but I do have to admit, there is an awful lot of information there for folks to digest. There's also some golden nugs of info for those interested in freeze drying. I have hundreds of acres to spread my crop out on, but very limited in drying space. I'm trying to think out of the box, and I like what I hear about freeze dryingI seldom pay any attention to those who bitch and insult because they're not worth my time and energy.
Were you freezing your bud in the open freezer to dry it, or freezing to preserve and/or cure it?
Hi
I make RSO oil only with my plants when they are ready. I want to try the freeze dry method of drying and curing. If I am only making medicine and not smoking or vaping, will freeze drying be all I need and how long would I need to wait before I could make RSO with the newly havested plants. I will dry for 4 days then in the freezer for 21 days. Will it be ready to make medicaine at that time??
Paul
I make RSO oil only with my plants when they are ready. I want to try the freeze dry method of drying and curing. If I am only making medicine and not smoking or vaping, will freeze drying be all I need and how long would I need to wait before I could make RSO with the newly havested plants. I will dry for 4 days then in the freezer for 21 days. Will it be ready to make medicaine at that time??
Paul
They probably came out dry as hell because they where frozen?
I mean if you just take the weed out of the freezer, you should leave it in it's closed package for a few hours. And then when you open it, the weed should be just as sticky as when it went in. In a frozen state if seems very dry.
My weed is always much better after some time in the freezer.
And like Artfog says, you can freeze them when they are still real sticky, they don't have to be as dry as for long term jar curing.
I use small mylar ziplock bags to store the weed. This way it is always super fresh and pungent and sticky.
jus'plain'gill
Active member
When you've reached the point when buds are ready to go into the freezer; it doesn't matter if they are hanging, laying on trays, or stacked in shoe boxes (my own personal favorite). The process will work just the same. Good luck!
.JPG
.JPG
jus'plain'gill
Active member
Hey Everybody,
I'm not able to grow at the moment, its been a while actually. But I'm lucky enough to have had my last couple harvests be very successful, so I'm still working my way through my stash despite not having harvested any plants in a couple years. That's what is compelling me to make this post today, years old weed that is just as smooth and nearly as potent as ever.
Knowing I'd be smoking on the same batch for a couple or few years, I wanted to ensure the quality would remain as long as possible. I had noticed in the past that buds stored in the freezer retain all the desirable characteristics without any special storage. Whether being kept loose in an open shoebox, or sealed up in a large pickle jar, or packed in ziplock baggies; the buds would stay perfect for months. But after enough time, 6 months or so, I notice flavor starting to drop off, and a subtle decrease in potency.
To combat this degradation, I tried vacuum sealing buds in large storage bags. This seems to have solved my issues, and buds are just as good at 15-18 months as they are at 2-3 months. I'm optimistic the quality will remain for another 18 months at least. Maybe even 2-3 more years of storage without losing too much quality?
If anyone has experience with storing flowers for long periods, I would love to hear your insights/opinions.
Take care,
.JPG
I'm not able to grow at the moment, its been a while actually. But I'm lucky enough to have had my last couple harvests be very successful, so I'm still working my way through my stash despite not having harvested any plants in a couple years. That's what is compelling me to make this post today, years old weed that is just as smooth and nearly as potent as ever.
Knowing I'd be smoking on the same batch for a couple or few years, I wanted to ensure the quality would remain as long as possible. I had noticed in the past that buds stored in the freezer retain all the desirable characteristics without any special storage. Whether being kept loose in an open shoebox, or sealed up in a large pickle jar, or packed in ziplock baggies; the buds would stay perfect for months. But after enough time, 6 months or so, I notice flavor starting to drop off, and a subtle decrease in potency.
To combat this degradation, I tried vacuum sealing buds in large storage bags. This seems to have solved my issues, and buds are just as good at 15-18 months as they are at 2-3 months. I'm optimistic the quality will remain for another 18 months at least. Maybe even 2-3 more years of storage without losing too much quality?
If anyone has experience with storing flowers for long periods, I would love to hear your insights/opinions.
Take care,
.JPG
I always store my herb in mylar bags (doesnt necessarily needs to be vac sealed for the freezer) and it stays fresh for years. The oldest pack I opened had been in the freezer for 5 years and still as fresh and taste as the day it went in.
But I never keep my weed in the freezer without packaging, I dry or cure (depends) till a certain WOW point and then I freeze.
NEVER use food-safe plastic vacuum bags as they will fuck up the taste of the herb and ruin the experience!!!!! Use vac-seal mylar instead!!!!
But I never keep my weed in the freezer without packaging, I dry or cure (depends) till a certain WOW point and then I freeze.
NEVER use food-safe plastic vacuum bags as they will fuck up the taste of the herb and ruin the experience!!!!! Use vac-seal mylar instead!!!!
