S
SeaMaiden
What are you gentlemen using to puree the plants up? I am reluctant to break out my remaining blender, I've already broken one.
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Fermented plant extracts
- Thread starter sophisto
- Start date
Yard sales is where I get mine. I figure for $5.00 if it only lasts a couple of months I'm still in the 'black'
I ordered a meat grinder (hand powered) yesterday from the hunting supply store. I'm going to start grinding up those plant materials that have high levels of lignin like Stinging Nettles - not that they can be deconstructed by the bacteria in the brewing cycle but later after it's strained it's easy to add this to the compost pile.
For Comfrey, Borage, etc. a Weed-Whacker (or whatever they're called) in a large trash can works really, really well. Wear goggle for the flying plant material if you're as inept as I was/am.
CC
I ordered a meat grinder (hand powered) yesterday from the hunting supply store. I'm going to start grinding up those plant materials that have high levels of lignin like Stinging Nettles - not that they can be deconstructed by the bacteria in the brewing cycle but later after it's strained it's easy to add this to the compost pile.
For Comfrey, Borage, etc. a Weed-Whacker (or whatever they're called) in a large trash can works really, really well. Wear goggle for the flying plant material if you're as inept as I was/am.
CC
Well, I've been wondering this too. I thought this was one of the reasons to dilute FPEs to 1:250 for root feeding and 1:500 for foliar. Has anyone had burn / alcohol toxicity issues at these dilutions? I haven't, so far as I know.
Oregonism
Active member
Here are some links on terpenoids, extractions and phytochemicals
Included are:
Classification of Terpenoids: [40 pages]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/47074120/21/Classification-of-terpenoids
Phytochemicals as Nutraceuticals by Ben Best:
http://www.benbest.com/nutrceut/phytochemicals.html
Included are:
Classification of Terpenoids: [40 pages]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/47074120/21/Classification-of-terpenoids
Phytochemicals as Nutraceuticals by Ben Best:
http://www.benbest.com/nutrceut/phytochemicals.html
Amber Trich
Active member
not sure but I was just reading in michael phillips' holistic orchard you can get more silica from your horsetail fpe by adding garlic scapes to the mix "organo-sulfur compounds in garlic serve as synergistic carriers of silica and other nutrients"
in that book he is pouring a pot of boiling water on the herbs before filling the bucket the rest of the way with cold water.
another note- adding horsetail to the tea brewer significantly increases beneficial fungi counts
in that book he is pouring a pot of boiling water on the herbs before filling the bucket the rest of the way with cold water.
another note- adding horsetail to the tea brewer significantly increases beneficial fungi counts
not sure but I was just reading in michael phillips' holistic orchard you can get more silica from your horsetail fpe by adding garlic scapes to the mix "organo-sulfur compounds in garlic serve as synergistic carriers of silica and other nutrients"
in that book he is pouring a pot of boiling water on the herbs before filling the bucket the rest of the way with cold water.
another note- adding horsetail to the tea brewer significantly increases beneficial fungi counts
Is there some data showing that horsetail in tea increases fungi?
Amber Trich
Active member
sorry not sure..
read it in the holistic orchard which sites an article by hugh courtney in applied biodynamics.
its here
http://www.jpibiodynamics.org/node/564
but i cant find where we can read it for free
read it in the holistic orchard which sites an article by hugh courtney in applied biodynamics.
its here
http://www.jpibiodynamics.org/node/564
but i cant find where we can read it for free
It doesn't,but some use horsetail as a dry amendment and sometimes as a tea/FPE based on what you can read here in the ICmag organic soil forum.
Silicone is indeed one of the main building blocks of plant material.
Liquid Potassium silicate is a must have in the PNW if you are a serious professional organic gardener trying to get your meds in the dispensaries on a consistant basis without being attacked by PM.
jaykush recommended horsetail tea over a fermentation of horsetail.
interesting about the garlic. i wonder why it helps
interesting about the garlic. i wonder why it helps
Horsetail Fern Nutrient Profile (includes several secondary metabolites in the list)
Oregonism
Active member
Great info, thanks for posting CC and everyone else.
Great info, thanks for posting CC and everyone else.
Here is some more:
Phytochemical screening and Extraction: A review, Tiwari, P., Kumar, B., Kaur, M., Kaur, Gu., Kaur, Ha. Internationale Parmaceutica Sciencia, Jan-Mar 2011, Vol 1: Issue 1.
I can try and find a link or try to host a link, I hate linking pDF's, anybody have an easier way suggestion?
Great info, thanks for posting CC and everyone else.
Here is some more:
Phytochemical screening and Extraction: A review, Tiwari, P., Kumar, B., Kaur, M., Kaur, Gu., Kaur, Ha. Internationale Parmaceutica Sciencia, Jan-Mar 2011, Vol 1: Issue 1.I can try and find a link or try to host a link, I hate linking pDF's, anybody have an easier way suggestion?
Oregonism
Looking at Table 1, it's a good thing that the specific compounds we want for their biopesticide and biofungicide benefits are easily extracted with water: Saponins, Terpenoids & starches.
Looking at Table 1, it's a good thing that the specific compounds we want for their biopesticide and biofungicide benefits are easily extracted with water: Saponins, Terpenoids & starches.
S
SeaMaiden
Yeah, because the rest of the extraction methods are using endocrine disruptors. The ethanol, methanol, ether, chloroform, and acetone--all.
Amber Trich
Active member
jaykush recommended horsetail tea over a fermentation of horsetail.
interesting about the garlic. i wonder why it helps
i think horsetail tea is used in biodynamics as an antifungal and the fpe is a specific silica extract. i had previously thought it was just the silica preventing the fungus but that might not be the whole story?
i think the garlic is a penetration enhancer.. supposedly its systemic so the leaves absorb it (every do a garlic foot soak and end up with garlic breath?)
mm, what usually makes something promote fungus? i can only think of food or ph? maybe i should buy that article
cc- im curious what the fresh plant slurry contains/how it works compared to traditional dried herb tea? thanks so much for posting all this info
sm- i didnt realize ethanol was an endocrine disruptor! thanks!
S
SeaMaiden
Yea, been reading some stuff about menopause and the learn I'm getting on is... educational, and discouraging. Just learned about the various endocrine/hormone disruptors and mimics, ethanol is but one. I started a thread about using chlorine bleach as a sterilizer/sanitizer in the organic forum, but only got one response and no discussion on the issue. And that issue is that when Cl meets organic molecules, it becomes an organochloride. I already knew this, but didn't know how that relates to pesticides, hormones and the endocrine system.
cc- im curious what the fresh plant slurry contains/how it works compared to traditional dried herb tea?
See if this analogy works for you. Take any of the Mint family plants, remove 1 cup of crushed leaves and mix with 1 cup of water and set it aside.
Take a dried version of the same plant and I won't even beg the question - use the same amount by volume.
See which one you can get down without vomiting. It's the compounds which have an 'aroma' that contain these pesticides and fungicides. Sometimes the uninformed public will call them 'volatile oils' or something equally non-descriptive. How can an alcohol Terpenoid be an oil?
That's the best answer I can give you. The dried plant material will work and a good gardener will harvest enough material, dry it correctly and then store it correctly (just like cannabis flowers) and then be able to have an effective agent to work with during the fall and winter months.
But during the spring & summer months when the fresh plant material is available and when the worst problems with herbivore insects appear why use a #2 material?
CC
See if this analogy works for you. Take any of the Mint family plants, remove 1 cup of crushed leaves and mix with 1 cup of water and set it aside.
Take a dried version of the same plant and I won't even beg the question - use the same amount by volume.
See which one you can get down without vomiting. It's the compounds which have an 'aroma' that contain these pesticides and fungicides. Sometimes the uninformed public will call them 'volatile oils' or something equally non-descriptive. How can an alcohol Terpenoid be an oil?
That's the best answer I can give you. The dried plant material will work and a good gardener will harvest enough material, dry it correctly and then store it correctly (just like cannabis flowers) and then be able to have an effective agent to work with during the fall and winter months.
But during the spring & summer months when the fresh plant material is available and when the worst problems with herbivore insects appear why use a #2 material?
CC
Interesting. Of course we know that something cannot be a fungal promoter and anti-fungal both, although many salespeople try to smoke and mirror us into that illusion.
Well a fungi could be already growing on a substance/material, the substance/material could attract airborne spores (eg. moldy bread) or the spores and or hyphae exsistent in material
(like [vermi]compost or soil) is fed by the foodstock being used. pH manipulation can be used for controlling pathogenic fungi but I don't recommend it as a method for promoting fungi.
Most fungi lay down a pH trend towards the acid side while most bacteria towards the alkaline. They balance each other out in a healthy environment. IMO this is why we can end up with a stable soil pH of generally 6.2 to 7 when using lots of [vermi]compost, organic matter and/or compost tea. This, even when the ACT might measure 8 or even 9.
As far as the article, one usually never knows where information comes from which gets grossly perpetuated. The author very often just passes on information he/she feels is from a legit source.
For example most people believe that molasses only grows bacteria and not fungi. This myth comes forth from SFI, even still today. In reality it grows both nicely.
