Fermented plant extracts

[SeaMaiden]

Well, I used both water and the MBE. I may end up with an woolly oxalis beer! (We've got several yeast starters leftover in the refrigerator, and hops pellets, too...)

Has anyone experimented with hops?

 

[ClosetAdvocate]

Thanks for the replies. I've got the quickweed soaking in my jug. I just closed it off with a lid and added some air conditioner condensate water to help soak them.

I'll give it some time and see what I get.

ETA: It just clicked with me last night that I can ferment coffee grounds. Crap, I have tons of that stuff. I can go the whole year without buying fertilizer just on FPE from coffee.

 

[heady blunts]

Has anyone experimented with hops?

ooooooooooo i bet that one would smell really good.

 

[Oregonism]

you don't need to add anything except water to most plants for an FPE. bacteria and native yeasts are abundant on every surface of the plant and floating in the air. the plant material is plenty of food for them.

lacto b and EM are likewise unnecessary, though it has been reported that adding it to the mix when you start a nettle, comfrey, dandelion, or other putrid smelling fpe will cut back on its offensive odor.

I agree to a point, because yes, the point of EM was to harness ubiquitous microbi life. But, I think there are some un-answered questions and I have come to the conclusion, that anything is fair game about FPE right now.

However, I do want to start using this to measure my sugar content:


.....I want to measure pre and post fermentation, with and without extra carbs. I do thank you for the idea that brewed my next interesting experiment. I bought this fancy hydrometer a while ago and need to start using it.

Well, I used both water and the MBE. I may end up with an woolly oxalis beer! (We've got several yeast starters leftover in the refrigerator, and hops pellets, too...)

Has anyone experimented with hops?

Very much thinking about this lately, because quercitin and a few other chemicals found in hops are supposedly AntiChrohn's chemicals.

I am surrounded by hops here in the Willamette Valley, they grow wild where they escape, time to hunt!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

vonforne

I'm going to answer your questions (comments) about Spinosad and Lavender teas here vs. there for obvious reasons.

Bonide's Captain Jack's product costs around $20.00 for 16 oz. which makes 4 gallons of pesticide. Monterey Gardens Spinosad Concentrate costs around $20.00 for 32 oz. so that drops the price per gallon by 50%.

Both Bonide & Monterey Gardens are licensed by Eli Lilly & Company to pack this fermented bacterial culture. Meaning that it's the exact same product. Bonide is and has always been a retail (consumer) oriented company and their pricing reflects that across the board.

RE: Lavender Tea

The active compound (secondary metabolite) found in Lavender and almost all other Mint family plants (Lamiaceae or Labiatae) is Linalool. This compound is manufactured synthetically and is a registered pesticide by EPA. The synthetic version does not degrade, i.e. it accumulates and therefore it can become toxic.

The Linalool found in these plants is simply a C, H, O compound that degrades from light and air - just like THC which is also a C, H, O compound.

The challenge with using Lavender, per se, is that in the Lavender world there are 2 main groups - culinary and medicinal. The culinary hybrids produce Linalool (a Terpene - Monoterpenolss) and it produces Linalyl acetate (also a Terpene but it is acetate ester of Linalool). The Linalool level in the culinary plants are about 50% the levels in the medicinal plants.

In addition to that, the medicinal plants also bring in uber levels of Eucalyptol and Camphor. All of these additional compounds make this very undesirable to use as a herb as if regular Lavender wasn't bad enough.

But Lavender (even the medicinal plants) may not be the best choice for sourcing Linalool. Commercially there are about a dozen or so certified organic broad-spectrum pesticides that are made from oils from these plants about in this order: Cilantro, Peppermint, Oregano & Marjoram. Even the hydro store have a joke called Liquid Ladybug is nothing more than 2% Peppermint Oil and some Citric acid to arrest continued fermentation. Linalool is an alcohol based compound and therein lies potential problems.

If you want an instant insecticide then all you need to gather is a bunch of organically-grown Cilantro. You want about the amount it would take to fill a cup with crushed leaves. Lavender produces Linalool in and around the flowers whereas the Mint plants produce this compound on the leaves (primarily) and on the stalks. This means that it's very easy to extract the Linalool from the leaves of Mint plants.

Take leaf material and put it into a food processor or blender with enough water to make a puree. Add this to about 1/2 gallon of water. It is not necessary to let it sit for 2 days - even 10 hours is more than enough. Shake it a few times when you're bored.

Strain the plant material and to this 'tea' add 1/4 cup of Aloe vera extract and shake. This will activate the Saponins that will give you the surfactant benefit you're wanting. Add 1 tsp. of Pro-TeKt and fill to make 1 gallon. This is your pesticide. Spray at the end of the day (outside garden) and immediately before lights out in an indoor garden.

The reason is very simple - these compounds are, once again, Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. Light, air, etc. degrade these compounds. Just like THC - stick a bud into a blender, add some water, soak for 10 hours and strain and then let me know who much THC is floating around that jug.

I'm thinking not too much.

Do not use hot water - 70F is perfect
Only use organically grown plants
Do not add sugar
Do not add bat guano
Do not add Soft Rock Phosphate
Do not add bird guano
Do not add perlite
Do not add Dolomite Lime

Dat's it.........

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Von

Can you get Epazote at a Mexican food market?

 

[DARC MIND]

the coot is back!
joy

 

[SeaMaiden]

I just had a thought explosion and now there's a mess to clean up or I won't get a coherent sentence, let alone question, out of it.

Mints--huge family and many are extremely easy to grow. Cilantro--my favorite! How do I get it to stop bolting, though? I thought a shady location would do it, but the greenhouse is apparently not shady enough.

How about stuff like fenugreek?

I saw that our local garden center is selling live epazote. What's up with that? I shouldn't have planted my comfrey in containers, but digging a hole in this 'soil' is more than I'm up to.

Happy happy joy joy! Now for jay's return.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

SeaMaiden

Are you familiar with a commercial broad-spectrum pesticide called Requiem by any chance? You will not find this at a garden center as it has not been approved for sales at the retail industry.

CC

 

[DARC MIND]

fenugreek is a N fixer,great for mulch living and or when dead..if gone to seed just chop at soil level (dont deroot),crush seed pods in hand to loosen seed and drop as mulch,she will come back
leaves can be eaten fresh with potatos,great indian dish..seeds are used commonly as a spice/herb for cooking

 

[heady blunts]

coot! so glad to have you back!

i found your post on linalool very informative.

as i am starting to learn more about FPE, i am becoming more interested in how to judge the proper balance between avoiding alcohol toxicity and achieving the conversion of useful nutrition into available forms.

how can we make the most of our fermented plant extracts without doing a larger measure of harm?

 

[lost in a sea]

comfrey is one of the best,, that with some filter sponge juices from a fishtank after a clean for plenty of those nitrogen cycle bacteria,,

 

[Microbeman]

coot! so glad to have you back!

i found your post on linalool very informative.

as i am starting to learn more about FPE, i am becoming more interested in how to judge the proper balance between avoiding alcohol toxicity and achieving the conversion of useful nutrition into available forms.

how can we make the most of our fermented plant extracts without doing a larger measure of harm?

Great question.

 

[DARC MIND]

pretty easy,
follow the dilution ratio Jay so kindly gave,start with plants respected members have had good experienced with & remember less is best

i have yet to have any FPE do any harm,smell alcoholic etc & ive used alot..simply use one plant of choice,add water; no need for sugar/simple carbs
strain in a week or so and dilute when needed

i think,like ACT,many will over complicate this very simple natural gardening method

 

[ClackamasCootz]

The easiest way to avoid any and all alcohol toxicity issues is to do very short cycles. Yesterday I went and picked up 2 bunches of organic cilantro from the store. The reason for this was to test my premise that very quick short water cycles to extract the biopesticides and biofungicides are all that are needed. We had bought 50+ seedlings from different nurseries. They get these from small producers and you always have to assume that insects will come along for the ride - especially spider mites.

I gook the Cilantro and pureed it as I described, added it to a tank of water and let it sit for about 5 hours. I stirred it probably 6 or 7 times with a stick. Prior to spraying I added the Aloe vera juice (powder) and Silica and sprayed all of the new plants in the beds. I broke my own rule and did this in the early evening which is too early for maximum effectiveness but that wasn't my goal.

When I checked the plants a couple of hours later there was a complete kill zone. Nothing was moving at all. That doesn't mean it's over - eggs and larva hide everywhere so repeated applications are necessary to break the adult-egg-cycle.

We're back to the THC analogy - the molecular formula for THC is C21 H30 O2

The molecular formula of Linalool is C10 H18 O

Is that helpful? If your goal were to extract THC (per se) from cannabis flowers then the minimum damage to this compound (secondary metabolite) would be your primary goal, correct?

Take Comfrey which is probably a better example - Comfrey has been used as a medicinal plant for several millennia. That medicinal benefit isn't coming from the 'N-P-K' it contains - it comes from the compounds (vitamins, hormones, esters, etc.) the plant creates. The term 'knit bone' didn't come from the it's high Potassium content.

But you can go to the bank on this one - take a mass of chopped Comfrey leaves and stick it in a tank of water for 4 - 6 weeks and you'll be left with a rich nutrient tea but I wouldn't be counting on it doing much bone mending. If that weren't the case then all we'd have to do with our cannabis flowers would be to chop them up, fresh, stick them in a tank of water for several weeks until everything broke down and we'd have high-potency THC brew, right?

Let's use the AACT as another analogy. Take the correct ingredients and equipment and follow the recommended procedures you'll have AACT V1.0 after X number of hours. If you let it go 2X hours then you now have AACT V2.0, and so on. In the purest definition of the term AACT you would still have 'some version' of an AACT but vastly different and with huge changes on specific microbe colonies and counts and ultimately benefits.

SeaMaiden mentioned herb plants bolting and the reason that this isn't desirable from a culinary perspective is that the flavor of the plant material changes. Sure does - once the plant is in its prime reproductive cycle it begins to produce compounds which attract pollinators and it will also produce those needed basic compounds that will protect the flowers and later seeds from insects and molds, etc. That is the best time to pull flowers for making a pesticide or fungicide tea because that's when the plant is producing several compounds that can be harnessed and used. They may not taste good to us but that's not the point.

Don't try to store these flower teas unless you know what you're doing with Citric acid to arrest the fermentation cycle. The gunk & junk at the hydro stores that are promoted as 'biological pesticides' are all centered around some oil containing Linalool - Cinnammon (MightWash), Peppermint (Liquid Ladybug), et al. all contain either Citric or Ascorbbic acid as a preservative.

Stinging nettle is a kick-ass pesticide in a fresh, short-brew tea. Brew it out for several weeks and you'll have a great nutrient tea but it won't have any pesticide benefits. They left several weeks back.

These folks sell a huge range of botanical extracts, oils, etc. If you wanted to make 'Liquid Ladybug' all you'd need is Peppermint oil @ 2% and 1% Citric acid - boo! Oh and 98% water to complete the magical formula.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

One other comment about Linalool, we all use products containing this compound every day assuming we're on a semi-structured personal hygiene program. It's used as an aroma agent in soaps, shampoos, detergents, lotions and in its synthetic form the guy from Orkin is probably spraying it around your home.

Hard to beat modern chemistry, eh?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

This is a 1-year old Bocking 14 plant. This photo was taken this morning which is 4 weeks since the first harvest. The plants were taken down to the crown and you can see how much bio-mass it produces in 28 days. I have 4 of these - way more Comfrey than I need or can possibly use.

 

[SeaMaiden]

One other comment about Linalool, we all use products containing this compound every day assuming we're on a semi-structured personal hygiene program. It's used as an aroma agent in soaps, shampoos, detergents, lotions and in its synthetic form the guy from Orkin is probably spraying it around your home.

Hard to beat modern chemistry, eh?

No kidding. I'm learning about hormones and hormone balance currently, how ALL hormones are created from a base molecule--cholesterol. I'm seeing a lot of corollaries between how these compounds function in the body and how the basic CHO-based compounds work within plants. Next up will likely be how plant compounds can mimic and/or interfere with human hormones.

It's getting pretty wild and I only hope I can hang on long enough for the ride.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

SeaMaiden

Since they serve a dual purpose, i.e. culinary as well as gardening adjuncts, I planted the following this year:

Basil

Lime
Chocolate
Piccolo (Genovese strain - very, very tiny leaves)
Regulär ol' Basil
Thai Basil
Vietnamese

Cilantro

Vietnamese
Greek V 1.0
Greek V 2.0
Mexican
Red Sicilian

Mints

Spearmint
Peppermint
Lavender
Rosemary
Apple Pineapple
Apple
3 different Thai
3 different Vietnamese
Lemon Balm
Lemon Verbena

Bay Laurel
Savory

Culantro - Caribbean & Southeast Asian

Rhubarb Leaves - straight pesticide

Spinosad

Neem & Karanja oils & meals

I'm armed and dangerous......

 

[SeaMaiden]

HOW are you getting culantro to grow????? My mother is Puerto Rican, my grandmother was quite the cook and she grew many herbs (and limones) on the roof of the family home. (You can probably still see it using Google Earth.)

I had NO IDEA there were all those varieties of cilantro, either, and I'd love to get my hands on them.

Spinosad is a plant...? I've no experience whatsoever with rhubarb, not even in a pie.

That's a hell of a list and I'd love to try to get the same going for us. Sourced locally, or through the website you posted previously?

Sorry for all the questions, they're integral to my nature.