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Don't lose Good Genetics!! Clone your Bud.
- Thread starter papaduc
- Start date
This is one of the things I meant to talk about yesterday but didn't have time. It's one really important aspect of doing this and something which a lot of people could find useful.
I've seen people asking what ways to keep a plant from growing, basically keep it on ice. People have suggested refrigerating it. Other suggestions came up. Not many of which I'd be happy doing. I wouldn't keep every clone from a seed run in my fridge. Cloning from budding plants provides an easy solution to that problem, and a viable means of space saving when working with untested genetics.
When you clone a plant that is at least 3 weeks or more into flower, what you have is a plant which, for weeks, is essentially in stasis. It doesn't move. All it needs from you is water. That's it.
First of all you've got the rooting process, which in my experience take pretty much the same time - 7-10 days - but then what happens next is the plant literally just stands still. There's no growth from it whatsoever. Below ground it's forming a nice rootball. Above ground, nothing.
Within a week or two a tiny little leaf will sprout from one of the bud sites. Then more will follow. It takes another week for these leaves to begin growing in earnest and then another week or so for them to start growing normally and vigorously, just like a vegging plant.
In your case, by the time you came to harvest, you could, depending on timing, just have the same sized little clones waiting for you to decide what to do with them. If one of them makes it to be a mother, you just continue the re-vegging process. If nothing does, then 20 clones will still only be an area the size of a shoebox. It's very very handy and the main reason I always do this on a seed run.
Once you get experienced with this method, you'll realise that every single plant re-vegges the same. I've never had one single pheno of any strain which has failed to re-veg for me.
C
chazz michaels
You may be right, i am not going to say you aren't.
I have just had some that seemed much easier to re-veg than others. Hardier.
I had a good record of revegging plants to begin with, and had some that revegged from 1 tiny little shoot on the base of the stem....
I have tried the same 'ruthless' pruning after harvesting on some other strains since then that just slowly faded to brown.
And i lost some nice specimens that i wanted to keep.
Anyway, you have given me a bit more confidence that i can reveg most, if not any, plant that i want to, if i take a bit more care.
timely thread!
i'm about to try this for the first time with some spoetnik #1 @ 5-6 weeks flower.
i also wonder if this method would be a good way to get the sativa dominant strains i usually grow under control (more bush, less stretch). i got some mekong high going that just keeps on growing. not far from some real height problems.
It would. The more the growth is spread between the branches the less one main branch shoots toward the sky.
One last thing before I go. It's probably the smallest issue and not even an issue at all (a bonus in fact) is the branching.
A re-vegetating clone will throw out a crazy number of branches and all will compete as main branches/colas, as if you'd topped the plant 4 or 5 times.
You should decide which branches to keep at an early point, because it's lets the plant focus it's energy on these from the get go which results in nice strong thick branching.
I took cuttings about 2 weeks from harvest during my first grow. I only had one suitable grow area so it seemed to make sense. Quickly realized it was going to work to share the space so I set up a smaller, fluorescent lit, cloning area. I was a able to save a few. They were all bag seeds anyway so after 3 runs I only have one of those original lines in the mix.
The important point is that it was my first attempt. Because the technique offers the potential for continuation in a single space, it probably gets tried by a lot of beginners, like me. Had a horrible time getting them to take but the area was too cold and I had fungus gnats. This factor probably leads to more reports of failure than standard practice. After having learned enough to have a virtually 100% successful cloning technique in veg, I suspect the slightly trickier version would be easier.
I would 100% do this in an emergency. I wasn't able to generate enough to keep myself, a few family members and a few more friends in smoke in my 4'X4' area with 800 watts. Had to build a separate veg room to stay high all the time
The important point is that it was my first attempt. Because the technique offers the potential for continuation in a single space, it probably gets tried by a lot of beginners, like me. Had a horrible time getting them to take but the area was too cold and I had fungus gnats. This factor probably leads to more reports of failure than standard practice. After having learned enough to have a virtually 100% successful cloning technique in veg, I suspect the slightly trickier version would be easier.
I would 100% do this in an emergency. I wasn't able to generate enough to keep myself, a few family members and a few more friends in smoke in my 4'X4' area with 800 watts. Had to build a separate veg room to stay high all the time
great thread but IMO the best way to not loose your genetics is by incrossing or F2'ing your clone. Find a male in the same pack that you found a female in..and actually do a seed run...Let the male pollinate your choice female..Voila those genetics for life..
Now people are gonna say well yes but you won't have the exact same plant..and I say you are right, but you have the opportunity now to find a better plant from your purchase from a pack of seeds and you have a back up of those genetics..I try and F2 every choice female I ever had...JUST my
peace
Chefboy
Now people are gonna say well yes but you won't have the exact same plant..and I say you are right, but you have the opportunity now to find a better plant from your purchase from a pack of seeds and you have a back up of those genetics..I try and F2 every choice female I ever had...JUST my
peace
Chefboy
Update time.
Re-vegging has started. And this is what it looks like.
See the little tiny leaves popping out of the bud. That's your first sign that the plant the plant has started vegetative growth again. That's when you know your project is a success and that your bud site will now go on to be a mother plant.
Notice how the leaves haven't yellowed at all from the first picture. If anything, once they root, they should go darker as the plant requires very little energy when in it's dormant state.
I feed at a low strength when I water my rooted clones. 0.8 ec of formulex (with tap water 0.2 included)
I'll show you how those little leaves develop over the coming weeks and how the re-vegetating process occurs.
Re-vegging has started. And this is what it looks like.
See the little tiny leaves popping out of the bud. That's your first sign that the plant the plant has started vegetative growth again. That's when you know your project is a success and that your bud site will now go on to be a mother plant.
Notice how the leaves haven't yellowed at all from the first picture. If anything, once they root, they should go darker as the plant requires very little energy when in it's dormant state.
I feed at a low strength when I water my rooted clones. 0.8 ec of formulex (with tap water 0.2 included)
I'll show you how those little leaves develop over the coming weeks and how the re-vegetating process occurs.
Attachments
Great info! I have 2 plants that I'm in this situation with right now... I'm gonna give this a go.. Thanks!!
mgk
mgk
Octopus garden
Member
Great thread
Great thread
Great thread. I have really enjoyed reading this and look forward to following.
Great thread
Great thread. I have really enjoyed reading this and look forward to following.
Started out years ago keeping mums, then discovered that simply cutting a clone or two from a keeper plant in the first week or so of flowering was all I needed to do to keep a specific genetic/phenotype for ever.
People talk about clone degradation over time, but I run all my keepers long term, as long as 8 - 9 years X 3 to 4 grows a year, and have never seen it happen in the least.
I have, to test the idea, taken cuts from finished plants and was able to root them, as noted already in this thread ... yes, that works, but again, why bother? Take a clone early on ... it will root faster and by the time the original plant is finished, you have an identical copy to send right back into flowering .... cut and clone, repeat and rinse ...
cheers,
rabbit
T
trem0lo
it really doesn't take much to save a good mother.
I managed to save a mother of a favorite... took a lower bud a few weeks into flower and simply stuck her in a plug, then a cup with soil, then watered her lightly for a few weeks. I almost gave up on her when I noticed shoots. success!
before that I lost a great plant due to my inexperience... reveg gone wrong live and learn, the grower's green thumb definitely plays a role here.
I managed to save a mother of a favorite... took a lower bud a few weeks into flower and simply stuck her in a plug, then a cup with soil, then watered her lightly for a few weeks. I almost gave up on her when I noticed shoots. success!
before that I lost a great plant due to my inexperience... reveg gone wrong
live and learn, the grower's green thumb definitely plays a role here.
This chop day clone was a fairly dense low node budlet , four weeks on vegging under florescents its an untidy mess that will thin out to at least ten good shoots , have had twenty from similar buds before.
Browned or fadeing leaves have been removed over this time to avoid moulds , ready for a high N feed now.
Big advantage to me is the lower numbers in veg , when i clone i already know its potential by smokeing near term samples , and if running numbers of a cross looking for a specific expression it saves a lot of wasted space.
By the time they are ready to take clones from you have smoked the short cured product and can decide their true value.
Find revegging the rootstock to be less reliable , and haveing old compost around was provideing a refuge for soil pests.
Browned or fadeing leaves have been removed over this time to avoid moulds , ready for a high N feed now.
Big advantage to me is the lower numbers in veg , when i clone i already know its potential by smokeing near term samples , and if running numbers of a cross looking for a specific expression it saves a lot of wasted space.
By the time they are ready to take clones from you have smoked the short cured product and can decide their true value.
Find revegging the rootstock to be less reliable , and haveing old compost around was provideing a refuge for soil pests.
K
komodod
I recently did this. they rooted quickly and I saw one new leaf after a week of 24/7 lighting. making f1s or f2s isn't a good idea to preserve your strain at all. the best way to keep the genetics in seed form is to make s1s. or better still just keeping the clone.
Oily Farmer
Member
Thanks papdoc for taking the time to share your experiences and results...
I've taken cuttings a few times, but always during veg, close to flowering.
One question that pops in my mind is why keep the bud? If there are fan leaves below the bud, I don't see the need to keep the bud. Two reasons come quickly to mind, one which has been mentioned, bud rot; the other is inefficient growth. Much energy is being used to grow the bud, and from what I've learned, the energy should be focused primarily on root development and growth, above ground growth is secondary. One of the reasons why fan leaves from cuttings are cut in half is to focus the energy to root growth (another reason is to keep it out of the growing medium).
Just a couple of thoughts, but mostly to say thanks for caring and sharing...
Happy Farming...
I've taken cuttings a few times, but always during veg, close to flowering.
One question that pops in my mind is why keep the bud? If there are fan leaves below the bud, I don't see the need to keep the bud. Two reasons come quickly to mind, one which has been mentioned, bud rot; the other is inefficient growth. Much energy is being used to grow the bud, and from what I've learned, the energy should be focused primarily on root development and growth, above ground growth is secondary. One of the reasons why fan leaves from cuttings are cut in half is to focus the energy to root growth (another reason is to keep it out of the growing medium).
Just a couple of thoughts, but mostly to say thanks for caring and sharing...
Happy Farming...
