DIY'ers come on in Shed build from scratch

[hup234]

how about a 20 ft container(conex) then add another,then take them with you when you buy a piece of land...

 

[Hydropimp]

Are you going to be renting or owning this property?

I know the owner its cool.

How far from neighbors is the shed? Can people living near or going by see you working on the shed?

the closest neighbor is the one behind the shed and is about 5-8 ft close to the wooden fence

In the winter you shouldn't need a/c but will need a heat source. The radiation of heat or heat source exhaust will be noticeable in the dead of winter. I think a shed like that heated 24/7 would draw attention.

Down here we fight heat and humidity. Also the window banger will be in the shed no outside parts

You could have two separate bloom rooms. They could be on a switch box. Let's say each bloom area is 4x4 with one 1000w light in each bloom room. The ballast runs 24/7 but the switch box lights one room 12/12 and then switches it to the other room 12/12.

This is a good idea

When on the lighted room exhaust to the unlighted room to keep it warm during lights off. The veg area would have a light on all the time or 18/6 so it would need some additional heat source.

Thanks

 

[Hydropimp]

sorry i cant really offer any advice on this thing. like i said sheds are not normally built well.

i honeslty think you would be wasting money throwing 1000 dollars worth of insulation into this thing... i would tear it down and rebuild someting exactly how you need it.

I know i have to drop some cash on the project but thousands for insulation?

i would not bother with another slab... just break that one up, and put it on 8" sonotube piers...

id suggest buying one of the myriad of used amazon books on building a shed, and reading over those. its very easy.

if you have to go it alone, id suggest a book called "working alone". i think its out of publication but i got one for a dollar way back on amazon.

If i had to build it over I know how to do it i saw videos on how to build a shed correctly. But i don't think I can throw all that money into it now.

how about a 20 ft container(conex) then add another,then take them with you when you buy a piece of land...

this is cool but no dice

 

[queequeg152]

singular thousand lol. not plural.
insulation for about 200 sq ft. can easily hit a grand, even more if you are going to try for r20+ walls.

if you seriously need to work with this space... id start by replacing the siding with t1-11 panels... they are dirt cheap. primer them, then do a solid coat of exterior paint.

t1-11 panels are garbage imo... they last like 10 years in some nasty climates like mine. but for a shed they are wholly appropriate.

with new siding... you can try roxxul bats? ... they are a bit sturdier than fiberglass. you could put these rockwool bats in and PROBABLY take them out again... without damaging them grievously, but IDK personally.

wouldnt even put up drywall. oh yea, and air seal as hard as you can with a foam gun applicator and some enerfoam as i noted previously.

 

[Hydropimp]

@q152

The rear wall i will tare out.

What is better than t1-11 plywood?

I would like to star to buy some stuff as I have time on my hands to build now.

Tell me what to pick up and i am off to the depot.

 

[Dropped Cat]

Think about building a room inside the shed. Keep the outside shabby
and have a solid, square, dry and clean interior.

You'd still have plenty of dimension to veg and flower.

Good luck, we're all counting on you.

 

[queequeg152]

@q152

The rear wall i will tare out.

What is better than t1-11 plywood?

I would like to star to buy some stuff as I have time on my hands to build now.

Tell me what to pick up and i am off to the depot.

honestly man, im against just taking someones advice as gospel.

imo you should familiarize youself with building techniques and make this decision yourself. imo one should never put his hands where his mind has not been days earlier. rushing head long into something almost always results in regrettable problems. im an engineer though, so i suppose im naturally cautious.

with that said, better than t1-11? pretty much everythng is better, with respect to lasting longer at least...

vinyl is probably the only alternative that is in the same ball park cost wise. like i said earlier in the thread, you can nail up like 1000 sq. ft of vinyl siding in a day by yourself.

premium vinyl can get expensive, but im talking about the cheap thin light weight shit.

the size of the siding will depend on your taste, but the rule of thumb is like 6-1\4 lap for single story buildings, and larger... like 12" lap for 2 stories.
the reason for this is architectural... the larger laps look better on a taller building.

before the vinyl goes up, you need to install OSB panels... they are like 14 bucks a panel here in houston, so cheap, but fairly bulky. you should get someone to help you install them.

you will need a set of horses and a circular saw to break down sheets. so be prepaired to shell out like 150 bucks if you dont already have said goods.

figure out where your electrical and shit will go in bruh, you will regret not planning it all out when you get started, and realise you need to take 3 steps back half way through.

 

[Hydropimp]

Think about building a room inside the shed. Keep the outside shabby
and have a solid, square, dry and clean interior.

You'd still have plenty of dimension to veg and flower.

Good luck, we're all counting on you.

Not a bad idea and i thought about it; but still would need to think of the noise the a/c makes.

I think i will go with 3/4 pt plywood for the rear of the shed.

Can i put 6 mill poly on the inside of the plywood to act as another vapor barrier?

I will leave a 1/2 inch gap between the slab and the plywood.

As for insulation i will go with prodex. it is insulation, reduce noise, and it is a vapor barrier.

It will go like this prodex airgap prodex.

I need to find out how much of a gap is needed for the prodex to work better.

 

[queequeg152]

Not a bad idea and i thought about it; but still would need to think of the noise the a/c makes.

I think i will go with 3/4 pt plywood for the rear of the shed.

Can i put 6 mill poly on the inside of the plywood to act as another vapor barrier?

I will leave a 1/2 inch gap between the slab and the plywood.

As for insulation i will go with prodex. it is insulation, reduce noise, and it is a vapor barrier.

It will go like this prodex airgap prodex.

I need to find out how much of a gap is needed for the prodex to work better.

oh god, prodex!

prodex is NOT INSULATION. IDK why it has spread like a virus on this site... prodex is a metalized polyethylene film ontop of a layer of bubble wrap.

it will not yield any appreciable r value. i had this discussion a while back with some other proselyte on another thread. when prodex advertises r 15 or what ever bullshit they claim, its completely fraudulent.
you NEED actual insulation if you want good temperature controls.

now... on the other hand, if you are using this space like... one time, during the winter, it will not be worth insulating, as the insulation cost will be more than the additional electricity cost.

but 5+ grows? its going to be worth your time to insulate properly.

 

[Hydropimp]

oh god, prodex!

prodex is NOT INSULATION. IDK why it has spread like a virus on this site... prodex is a metalized polyethylene film ontop of a layer of bubble wrap.

it will not yield any appreciable r value. i had this discussion a while back with some other proselyte on another thread. when prodex advertises r 15 or what ever bullshit they claim, its completely fraudulent.
you NEED actual insulation if you want good temperature controls.

now... on the other hand, if you are using this space like... one time, during the winter, it will not be worth insulating, as the insulation cost will be more than the additional electricity cost.

but 5+ grows? its going to be worth your time to insulate properly.

So other than the 1-2 inch sheathing what else is needed to get r 30 for the walls and ceiling?

 

[Granger2]

QQ152 said: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]honestly man, im against just taking someones advice as gospel."[/FONT]

Agreed. I don't claim to be an engineer, but it's spread because it is great stuff. And BTW, it is not, and does not contain bubble wrap. So if you're that uninformed, check it out here: http://www.insulation4less.com/

With a 2.64" air space it is R-16. Many other advantages too, like unaffected by humidity, 19db, etc. Good luck. -granger

 

[queequeg152]

QQ152 said: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]honestly man, im against just taking someones advice as gospel."[/FONT]

Agreed. I don't claim to be an engineer, but it's spread because it is great stuff. And BTW, it is not, and does not contain bubble wrap. So if you're that uninformed, check it out here: http://www.insulation4less.com/

With a 2.64" air space it is R-16. Many other advantages too, like unaffected by humidity, 19db, etc. Good luck. -granger

it will not get ANYWHERE near r16. thats utter bullshit.

sorry but outside insane instances... such as temperature differentials over 50c, no radiant barrier will exceede like r-3 to 5.

there are some documents that show values around r10+ but they are with 3 layers, horizontal configuration, and 3" air gaps between each layer.

radiant barriers, bubble wrap, foam wrap, what ever, are oversold bullshit products. just take a minute or two on greenbuilding, building science etc.

 

[queequeg152]

So other than the 1-2 inch sheathing what else is needed to get r 30 for the walls and ceiling?

r30?
you could do 2 inches of foam polyiso panels ( r 8-10). plus r15 rockwool batts. thats not r30, but close enough imo.

thats a 2x4 cavity + 2" exterior foam panels.

those panels are very expensive mind you. i... personally would not put them onto a structure i loathed.

perhaps you could make do with r15 rockwool insulation for the walls, and max out what ever stud space you have on the ceiling with rock wool as well.

like i said roxxul/ rockwool insualtion is a fair bit tougher than the cotton candy like fiberglass batts... you could probably take them out when/if you scrap that building.

 

[Granger2]

Don't expect me to take what you say as gospel. Where do you get your info? Or are you just speculating? -granger

 

[queequeg152]

Don't expect me to take what you say as gospel. Where do you get your info? Or are you just speculating? -granger

like i said, do your own research.... buildingscience.com, greenbuildingadvisor.com.

nothing i say will convince the proselytes. you must lean yourself.

 

[Granger2]

This is a cop out. Rather than including 2 links to massive websites, why don't you include links to info that you imply disproves the value of Prodex. I went to these sites and after about 20 minutes of searching and not finding anything, I gave up. You seem to be an anti-proselyte.

Do you have info that backs up your claims or not? If you do, show links to it. -granger

 

[queequeg152]

right, and when i post links will you accuse me of cheery picking?

im asking you to read for yourselves, because me posting a shit load of links makes one come off as hyper douche. This is all very common knowledge to builders and building envelope designers.

it also might be worth reading my comments on this subject in that UK attic grow thread.

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/radiant-barriers-solution-search-problem

http://www.advantagehomeperformance.com/radiant-barriersl

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...-moves-through-homes-building-science-podcast

http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-...bble-Wrap-Sham-Understanding-Radiant-Barriers

http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-...Oooh-Shiny-Stuff-Radiant-Barrier-Fundamentals

Although radiant barriers have no R-value, they can be used as part of a building assembly — for example, an assembly made up of a radiant barrier and an air space — to slow heat transfer.
he sale and distribution of radiant barriers has always attracted a disproportionate share of scam artists, many of whom promise impossible energy savings.
...
Even radiant barrier products that provide some benefit — for example, foil-faced bubble wrap or “radiant barrier chips” — have an Achilles’ heel: they cost more than conventional insulation. When I wrote a report on foil-faced bubble wrap in 2003, I found that the product was selling for between $.38 and $.50 per square foot. In other words, the R-1 bubble-wrap costs more than R-5 extruded polystyrene.

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/stay-away-foil-faced-bubble-wrap

Most brands of foil-faced bubble wrap are only 3/8 inch thick or less, and have an R-value of only 1.0 or 1.1. Since the product often costs more per square foot than 1-inch thick rigid foam rated at R-5, why would anyone use bubble wrap as insulation?
The R-value of foil-faced bubble wrap is so low that it has few, if any, advantages over rigid foam. Of course, the product’s foil facing can be used as a radiant barrier — but if you want a radiant barrier, cheaper products are available. (The bubble wrap layer is unnecessary, since it adds cost to the material without adding any useful thermal performance.)

the short story is... radiant barriers are only good in specific circumstances, and in relatively poor construction.

the best arguments for radiant barriers are in things like steel skinned RV's and junk... where you have hot ass sun beating down, and very poor insulation, and high temperature differentials. even then though they are not that amazing.

 

[Hydropimp]

Well i ripped out the back wall and installed the thickest PT ply wood.

Now i will add an additional 2*4 to the existing 2*4 to have a deeper depth for insulation.

I will stick the 2*4 rolls and then add 3/4 of the 4*8 sheets of insulation for got the name of it.

I also added a 6 mil plastic on the PT plywood as a vapor barrier.

I am going to start to caulk all the seams and cracks in the shed.

 

[Granger2]

Thanks for the links, queequeg152. Took me awhile to read thru it all. I agree that many sellers, especially salesmen of radiant barriers exaggerate claims. In all the stuff you linked to, there was no mention of Prodex. They only talked about foil, films, and bubble wrap. Prodex is not bubble wrap. I believe that Prodex, *properly installed,* [with 2.64" of air space, and sealed] is a radiant barrier and it will perform as the mfgr claims. Without the air space it has an R-value of 4-5.

Most of the info was about attic installations, and a point that was brought out is that the R-value of fiber glass, rock wool, cellulose is humidity dependent. Prodex is unaffected by humidity. I've been using both for 9 years, and am happy with it, and my electric bill.

There are other good things about Prodex, such as 19 db on sound leaving the room, shields electromagnetic, infrared surveillance protection, etc. Plus it's a very good reflective surface for your lighting.

Do what you want in your room, but my advice it to use both. Good luck. -granger
http://www.icc-es.org/Reports/pdf_files/load_file.cfm?file_type=pdf&file_name=ESR-2350.pdf

 

[queequeg152]

Thanks for the links, queequeg152. Took me awhile to read thru it all. I agree that many sellers, especially salesmen of radiant barriers exaggerate claims. In all the stuff you linked to, there was no mention of Prodex. They only talked about foil, films, and bubble wrap. Prodex is not bubble wrap. I believe that Prodex, *properly installed,* [with 2.64" of air space, and sealed] is a radiant barrier and it will perform as the mfgr claims. Without the air space it has an R-value of 4-5.

Most of the info was about attic installations, and a point that was brought out is that the R-value of fiber glass, rock wool, cellulose is humidity dependent. Prodex is unaffected by humidity. I've been using both for 9 years, and am happy with it, and my electric bill.

There are other good things about Prodex, such as 19 db on sound leaving the room, shields electromagnetic, infrared surveillance protection, etc. Plus it's a very good reflective surface for your lighting.

Do what you want in your room, but my advice it to use both. Good luck. -granger

check out the last link, they mentioned prodex as well as the brands they sell at HD and lowes.

Another bad apple is Insulation4less, which retails a thin product called Prodex Total. On its website, the company states, “Prodex Total has a nominal thickness of 5 mm (13/64 inch) closed cell polyethylene foam covered on both sides with .0012 (00.03 mm) aluminum foil facing. ... R-value R-16 unaffected by humidity.”
Prodex may be unaffected by humidity — but it is seriously affected by gross exaggeration.
These are not examples of victimless crimes; there are victims. One victim is a blogger who reports using this sub-slab assembly: “In basement, install Insul-Tarp over crushed rock, single layer of wire mesh, and Wirsbro [hydronic] tubing, pour concrete (pump hose will go through stairwell hole).”

certainly do what you like with your money and space, but i stand firm that their claimed r values are utter bullshit claims.



the test setups they construct to evaluate the performance of these materials is almost invariably a horizontal affair.

the R values vary with the temperature differentials. the lower the differerntial, the lower the r value. the quoted r16 is probably with a very very high, an unreasonably high temperature differential, WITH a horizontal configuration.