Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[siftedunity]

if grower A grows in a 10x5 room in a sog, and grower B grows in a 8x12 using a scrog, the differences in yield could be staggering, or close. it's useless to compare per plant yields when someone is growing a tree, or 100 donkey dicks. it's irrelevant!

it's about PERSONAL yield in relation to grows not utilizing this method, and if it'd increase. not understanding this means you don't even get the entire point of the argument. sorry...but it's true.

yeah i agree but all he was asking is what the guy got off one plant on average. he wasnt asking him to document his grow etc

its actually yield in relation to amount of light which is the best measure of productivity. and utilizing everything you put in from which the plants take something out.

why are you even in this thread? you dont defoliate and you are not against it. your purely just arguing shit and telling us plants eat sugar.

 

[willyweed]

Read a nice article in Soft Secrets recently & as it's relevant, I thought I'd share:

The genetic code determines the potential that an organism has to grow. The environment determines how that potential is acted upon.
Think of the genetic code as a set of plans & alternative plans that directs the plant's life processes. It holds the information that the plant needs to grow. For instance, if the plant is shaded it senses the lack of light and produces hormones (gibberellins) that induce the stem to grow taller so it can reach the light.
The potential of a plant to produce THC and terpines is affected tremendously by the environment. First, total production of cannabinoids is dependant on growth since a large plant produces more THC than a small one even if they are of equal potency. Growing a large healthy plant utilizing intense light and plentiful fertilizers increases total THC production.
Plants grown under intense light produce a higher percentage of THC than those grown under dimmer lights. Not only do high intensity lights increase growth but also potency! Also, in high quality plants the percentage of THC also increases as the amount of UV-B light increases.
The nutrients also affect the quality of the high. In an experiment (soft secrets) of fertilizers in 2000, clones produced VASTLY different quantities of bud depending on the fertilizer used. The buds looked very different too and each produced subtly different odours & flavours.

that soft secrets site is a must read to any uk growers/friends of thanks iffy-caradoc

 

[siftedunity]

that soft secrets site is a must read to any uk growers/friends of thanks iffy-caradoc

yeah especially the readers wives section

 

[iampolluted]

sifted....you don't know shit about what i do or haven't done, so your opinion of my posts equates to you not knowing SHIT! you don't even understand the crux of the debate and you offer nothing to support your position.

i've posted 3 links that say plats DO absorb sugar, and the research is from 1960. the data is probably older than you are, yet you're too ignorant to read a god damn thing that proves YOU wrong. sucks when the evidence isn't in your favor and the only retort is to call it bullshit.

uneducated? me? seriously? you're the one who doesn't read, argues science, and doesn't add a god damn bit of evidence to support your stance. in my eyes, you're full of useless opinion and bullshit! neither of which are worth arguing over because you still can't grasp the concept of what's being debated.

in a controlled room....or ANY room for that matter, with the SAME plants, SAME environment, SAME grower, SAME medium, the only things that matter are the untouched plants, and the defo plants, and the differences in yield between the 2 grows. everything else is the same. are YOU following? this means you CANNOT compare my yields, to anyone elses...period! the only comparable yields will be coming from the same fucking garden. whatever 1 plant yields DOES NOT MATTER! jesus christ....are you able to understand this or is it over your head? i'm inclined to think it's the latter.

the debate is not about light either. every grower here probably has a different light set up, light bulb, number of lights, and style of growing, and strains. all of those being different equates to different yields per person, per strain. comparing grower A's yield to grower B's yield won't work.

to compare 1000's of years of agriculture to a small indoor mj grow is plain stupid. not every plant species is the same. a fucking sunflower (which has simple leaves) has less leaves than mj (compound leaves) so when you take a leaf you may do harm. mj can have a 1000 leaves, and if 500 are somehow plucked, it won't do irreparable harm to it.

all of this ^^^ being said....why the fuck are you in this debate? you haven't added any substance, or proof. the only thing you have is a fucking opinion, and from what i can tell, it is an uneducated one considering you don't understand the debate being had.

 

[willyweed]

yeah especially the readers wives section

yep more worried about being in the busted bit ! lol, but will sleep better having read what the judge's have said about not putting small time growing for medical people in prison anymore just keep low numbers

 

[DrFever]

sifted....you don't know shit about what i do or haven't done, so your opinion of my posts equates to you not knowing SHIT! you don't even understand the crux of the debate and you offer nothing to support your position.

i've posted 3 links that say plats DO absorb sugar, and the research is from 1960. the data is probably older than you are, yet you're too ignorant to read a god damn thing that proves YOU wrong. sucks when the evidence isn't in your favor and the only retort is to call it bullshit.

uneducated? me? seriously? you're the one who doesn't read, argues science, and doesn't add a god damn bit of evidence to support your stance. in my eyes, you're full of useless opinion and bullshit! neither of which are worth arguing over because you still can't grasp the concept of what's being debated.

in a controlled room....or ANY room for that matter, with the SAME plants, SAME environment, SAME grower, SAME medium, the only things that matter are the untouched plants, and the defo plants, and the differences in yield between the 2 grows. everything else is the same. are YOU following? this means you CANNOT compare my yields, to anyone elses...period! the only comparable yields will be coming from the same fucking garden. whatever 1 plant yields DOES NOT MATTER! jesus christ....are you able to understand this or is it over your head? i'm inclined to think it's the latter.

the debate is not about light either. every grower here probably has a different light set up, light bulb, number of lights, and style of growing, and strains. all of those being different equates to different yields per person, per strain. comparing grower A's yield to grower B's yield won't work.

to compare 1000's of years of agriculture to a small indoor mj grow is plain stupid. not every plant species is the same. a fucking sunflower (which has simple leaves) has less leaves than mj (compound leaves) so when you take a leaf you may do harm. mj can have a 1000 leaves, and if 500 are somehow plucked, it won't do irreparable harm to it.



all of this ^^^ being said....why the fuck are you in this debate? you haven't added any substance, or proof. the only thing you have is a fucking opinion, and from what i can tell, it is an uneducated one considering you don't understand the debate being had.

first off Were in this debate to veer off new growers from having failures in there grows , secondly you mention its not about light , now which is it.
i sure can dig up many posts where it is mentioned that it is to get light to lower part of plants bud sites specially defoilating in flowering phase.????

Conclusion::::

what is really going on here you take leafs off in veg ?? proven facts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

It slowed growth , massive stress and irregular growth patterns came from it yup more or less plant goes into repair mode
what are the gains again it is mentioned that well some growers are limited to height or what ever , again i ask then why not train all tops to the direction of that one light rather then have buds all over defeating the purpose i would think wouldn't you ?????

PLANTS DO NOT TAKE IN SUGARS THEY MAKE THERE OWN in order for this to work properly.

flowering phase ::: most important part of plants life and for many growers the hardest part
Now with your guys concept of stripping leaves off in this phase what is actually occurring???? Here it is .... well plant should be healthy stress free and vigorous, but by stripping leafs off you only introduced more stress repair mode kicks back into this phase instead of bud growth does this make sense to you or anyone else ???? this is just plain stupid really.
you actually think that 1" bud you got on bottom of your plants is going to hold weight sorry again i have dried tons of weed and sorry to say that 1 " bud becomes shake just a matter of time

How do the pro's do it ????? well in a sense they defoil only lower bud suckers so clean up 1/3 rd of lower branches by doing this all plants energy is used to produce top main colas that is where the money is not the lower larf crap
all about efficiency speed , and harvest weights??? lets be realistic here what are the goals of many growers ???? its fast Veg times and good yields
Where do you get off saying yields are irrelevant at the end of the day that is what its all about YIELD and YIELD PER PLANT

 

[DrFever]

I want to stress to those interested yet uninitiated that you MUST prepare the plant in Veg. If you just placed some plants in 12/12 and you now decide to try this, you will be sorely disappointed. hahahaha just take your time and veg like 20 weeks extra only to have nice looking plants like below WTF
k33 i so wish you were still here would love to school you in growing weed

It is all about having the patience to move back the timeline and add additional veg time into your schedule. Once this additional time has been integrated into the process it becomes standard and does not add to the actual production cycle.

We are creating a much different plant and growth cycle so diligence and commitment to the plan is essential. Just removing a few leaves will not do it.

It is the stretch we are trying to contain. Stretching is the enemy as well as the huge leaves that accompany it.

but please note *** how i topped all plants awm forgot to mention but either way plants look disgusting

Even I have to admit how sad they look without the glorious leafage but again, I don't grow leaf. It's the end product that counts.

and IMO by looking at them plants don't expect much Hey lmao ??? Just amazes me no wonder he split i be embarrassed also
lets have a good laugh and look at how sick they look and what one should look like as well exact same day of flower you be the judge

 

[iampolluted]

ok dr....can you read the research explaining how excised root tips from plants absorb glucose and sucrose? until then saying they don't is an opinion, and that's all. you cannot say they can't without PROOF! i've proved it with 50 year old science. i'm done arguing about it, because you cannot understand simple science.

2ndly, again, it's not about per plant yields. it's about total yields of the ROOM from an individual grower, not comparing my yield to yours. to argue about yields per plant is like arguing whether your truck weighs more than mine when we have different makes, models, and years. doesn't equate......understand yet? didn't think so. maybe if i compare your grows to heath robinsons you'd get it, but i still doubt it.

it's still not about light in the way you think. it's how the plant uses the light, not the light itself. if plant A gets light everywhere it's going to grow bigger everywhere. when plant B has a massive canopy, it can't get light to the bottom and won't produce there. it's fucking simple. that's why you strip the bottoms on a scrog, to reduce useless bud. i actually USE that bud because it's not worthless. it holds weight.

i'm done arguing this shit because you are too stubborn or ignorant to understand the facts. until you try this method, your opinion on it doesn't mean shit.

keep posting pics of your plants tho....we know you're proud of em. i do ask that you STOP ripping on other people who don't grow LIKE you. i mean i could say your grow looks like shit all day long and whole-heartedly believe it, because i HAVE seen better.

btw....quit being so egotistical thinking your style is better than another until you've grow another way. just like a typical know it all doctor who disregards things foreign to them....

 

[sweetestsin420]

another thing that people dont seem to mention,in terms on defoliating,is that by cutting off leaves during flower,your causing stress to the plants,and they send out chemical signals,and resin increases,iv personally seen this happen,and i think its something worth looking into,do defoliated plants make more resin...maybe a side by side?

 

[DrFever]

ok dr....can you read the research explaining how excised root tips from plants absorb glucose and sucrose? until then saying they don't is an opinion, and that's all. you cannot say they can't without PROOF! i've proved it with 50 year old science. i'm done arguing about it, because you cannot understand simple science.

2ndly, again, it's not about per plant yields. it's about total yields of the ROOM from an individual grower, not comparing my yield to yours. to argue about yields per plant is like arguing whether your truck weighs more than mine when we have different makes, models, and years. doesn't equate......understand yet? didn't think so. maybe if i compare your grows to heath robinsons you'd get it, but i still doubt it.

it's still not about light in the way you think. it's how the plant uses the light, not the light itself. if plant A gets light everywhere it's going to grow bigger everywhere. when plant B has a massive canopy, it can't get light to the bottom and won't produce there. it's fucking simple. that's why you strip the bottoms on a scrog, to reduce useless bud. i actually USE that bud because it's not worthless. it holds weight.

i'm done arguing this shit because you are too stubborn or ignorant to understand the facts. until you try this method, your opinion on it doesn't mean shit.

keep posting pics of your plants tho....we know you're proud of em. i do ask that you STOP ripping on other people who don't grow LIKE you. i mean i could say your grow looks like shit all day long and whole-heartedly believe it, because i HAVE seen better.

btw....quit being so egotistical thinking your style is better than another until you've grow another way. just like a typical know it all doctor who disregards things foreign to them....

ok believe me or not this is how it works last time i try to explain it can you get it into your thick skull remember one thing i do own a garden center and go to seminars yearly its my job you understand ???

Your question is a bit odd. Plants use sucrose as a transport molecule via the phloem. It is used as it is more stable and more efficient to use than glucose. Eventually the plant will break it down and use its constituents in respiriation. Plants don't let any molecules diffuse from their roots; they use active transport to move minerals in. The sugars are made by photosynthesis in the leaves, they dont have much to do with the roots.
now getting back to this stupid defoilating thread now really you veg longer Why here look vegged 34 days and 19 days done in flower it covers 5 feet by 15 feet scrog table if you want to really get into efficiency. That is about efficient that your going to get , You mention Heath hahaha heath does not skin his plants what point are you trying to get across there idunno man
HAHA you mention light again place your 10 watt cfl in a room grow a plant then throw a 600 or 1000 in a room and see how it grows light is probably the most important thing in growing

keep posting pics of your plants tho....we know you're proud of em. i do ask that you STOP ripping on other people who don't grow LIKE you. i mean i could say your grow looks like shit all day long and whole-heartedly believe it, because i HAVE seen better.
doesn;t matter if you seen better can you do better that is the question and the answer is probably no and never will so whats your point all your doing is slowing your plant cycle down by skinning your plants i just don;t get it
owe and here my shitty looking grow 34 day vegged from 3" clone and now covering 5 feet x 15 total days 53 days

 

[whodare]

2ndly, again, it's not about per plant yields. it's about total yields of the ROOM from an individual grower, not comparing my yield to yours. to argue about yields per plant is like arguing whether your truck weighs more than mine when we have different makes, models, and years. doesn't equate......understand yet? didn't think so. maybe if i compare your grows to heath robinsons you'd get it, but i still doubt it.

Right, and a few pages back I told you how to compare garden yields.

Gpkwh, gpsqft, cycles per year. It's the only way to compare and account for garden differences.

(Grams per kilowatt hour, grams per square foot.)

it's still not about light in the way you think. it's how the plant uses the light, not the light itself. if plant A gets light everywhere it's going to grow bigger everywhere. when plant B has a massive canopy, it can't get light to the bottom and won't produce there. it's fucking simple. that's why you strip the bottoms on a scrog, to reduce useless bud. i actually USE that bud because it's not worthless. it holds weight.

The power of a light decreases extremely quickly the further you place it, which is why you trim the lowers off instead of trying to grow them. You will never get solid lowers that are 4 feet from the light. If they are closer to the light then great but hacking a 4 foot tall plant apart so some lowers 4-6 ft away from a 1k bulb can try to dense up is silly.

Your right that bud is worth something, hash. But like dr said the brokers and clubs want fat nugs not a bunch of loose 1-2 inch buds. So you lose some market value on your primary crop so you can get some hash nugs.

i'm done arguing this shit .

That sure would be nice.

keep posting pics of your plants tho....we know you're proud of em. i do ask that you STOP ripping on other people who don't grow LIKE you. i mean i could say your grow looks like shit all day long and whole-heartedly believe it, because i HAVE seen better.

btw....quit being so egotistical thinking your style is better than another until you've grow another way. just like a typical know it all doctor who disregards things foreign to them....

Better? How? Plants don't get healthier then that. And you could say his grow looks like shit, but youd look like a pretty big dumbass.


Btw quit acting like a 16 year old, do you even actually defoliate or do you just believe it because this thread is full of anecdotal, unscientific evidence, or is it because a few experienced people promote it (even though they are really promoting something closer to basic pruning on the aggressive side.)

 

[Iffy-Caradoc]

Lol

 

[whodare]

An example from one of my gardens, nondefoliated.

36 plants
3x3 tray
1k light
2weeks rooting under t5 (12kwh)
0veg
10 week flower (840kwh)
2#(.2# fluff 1.8 solid nugs)

Call the canopy 10sqft so

90gpsqft

852kwh so

1.06 gpkwh

4 cycles per year so

8# off of a 1k every year.

 

[DrFever]

I am so curious how long that guy took to veg these i seen plants like that before full of thrips and spider mites

sweetestsin have a read resin production is genetic traits lots of things play a huge roll temps, humidity and health of plant
When plucking leafs off this is all that happens Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.

If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack.

It should be remembered that, regardless of strain or environmental conditions, the plant strives to reproduce, and reproduction is favored by early maturation. This produces a situation where plants are trying to mature and reproduce as fast as possible. Although the purpose of leafing is to speed maturation, disturbing the natural progressive growth of a plant probably interferes with its rapid development.

 

[DrFever]

hahahah hey Whodare lol

Nice growing brother! Well done! I was going to ask why don't you defoliate to let the light penetrate the rootball? But that's a stupid question lol

 

[whodare]

Thanks doc, Yea the op claimed defoliating was less work, bullshit.

Sog e&f is about as low matinence as it gets...

Idk how having to veg a plant, train it, defoliate it is less work than sog. Trim once at 14 days and your good to go.

And to someone who says veg time doesn't matter, what if you didnt need a veg room?

The room you were using for veg could be used as another flower room, and you could keep a bonsai mom alive (even in stasis if necessary)under a 25 watt cfl in a computer cab size space. Effectively increasing yield and reducing stress on plants, less work and more frequent harvests.

 

[Jbonez]

sorry for the delay, Im blooming in the am, get some pics of my chem in a bit.. I do have another ChemD that is going in behind it, so Ill def be able to make a pretty decent comparison for everyone to see for themselves..

I honestly dont see how anything could ever beat a sog run with cuts, Its the most effective way hands down, anyone arguing that would just get the mute button from me...

I gotta run small trees on the other hand as I live in the most brutal place to get caught, and I have ample veg time to negate any of the slow growth associated with what I am doing.

So in short, SOG with as many cuts as you can is the only surefire way to kill it.

Training whether it be topping, super cropping, defoliating, and you will yield more.. All about what you put into it...

Am I going to yield more because of how I vegged this chemd, sure, I think I will, in fact, I think my old way of just letting them go all single cola with more internodal spacing has no way of competing once I bloom, I suppose we will see either way.

When we tried this back a few years ago, we waited till week 5 and fuckin stripped em raw, not smart... I can only see this technique benefiting growers that have their veg game pretty dialed as this is where you wanna start this to get those budsites..

 

[whodare]

Ditch the veg room then.

From the start, stick clones in flower room, commence veg.

After 3 weeks take clones of vegging plants in flower room1 and flip to flower.

Two weeks after that (clones now rooted) start the veg on room2.

At week 7 flower in room1 and Week 3 veg in room2 take clones from veg plants in room2

Week 8-9 harvest room1. A week long dry, boom stick those clones from room2 into the now empty clean room1.

Wash,rinse,repeat

You can play with the timing of veg and cloning based on your plant count, and strains flowering time, but I hope this was a good example for you.

 

[Jbonez]

Ditch the veg room then.

From the start, stick clones in flower room, commence veg.

After 3 weeks take clones of vegging plants in flower room1 and flip to flower.

Two weeks after that (clones now rooted) start the veg on room2.

At week 7 flower in room1 and Week 3 veg in room2 take clones from veg plants in room2

Week 8-9 harvest room1. A week long dry, boom stick those clones from room2 into the now empty clean room1.

Wash,rinse,repeat

You can play with the timing of veg and cloning based on your plant count, and strains flowering time, but I hope this was a good example for you.

I actually just had a braingasm reading that... Im moving to a new spot soon after I ball up the funds, and this may be exactly what I do.. If Ima grow, and be smart, might as well get in what I can, numbers just make me nervous in the south bro..

 

[iampolluted]

not gonna read 1/2 of this shit up there because it's just that shit....all opinionated bullshit. no fact, or proof that this doesn't work.

100's of posts from you 2 who have done nothing but state OPINION!

i defo in more of a harder prune than most but it's not true defo as prescribed by the op. i've said that before so either your short term memory sucks, or you don't fucking read.

btw dr....i don't give a fuck what you do for a living. the only thing you've stated about sugars (glucose and sucrose) that is true is that they don't diffuse anything from their roots. they do absorb nutrients, INCLUDING sucrose if made available, as i've stated more than a few fucking times. when you take away a plants ability to produce as much glucose and sucrose (pulling leaves), it's gonna get it elsewhere if it can, and IT DOES (hence the scientific data i provided, not the hearsay and conjecture YOU'VE stated).

i'm not gonna look at a fucking scrog because it DOES NOT pertain to me. i'm not growing tress. i'm growing in a vsog. i get light from top to bottom, you don't. my tops are 14-18" away from a 1k, and so are the bottoms, yours are NOT! your larf ='s hash. my "larf" ='s bud $. plain and fucking simple. comparing a scrog to a sog is irrelevant again.

the only way you CAN compare yields is through continuous runs with the same genetics in the same room using a defo run vs. a non defo run. gpsf mean nothing, g's per watt mean nothing. g's per grow (comparing defo to non defo) do. everything else does NOT matter!

i can act any age i wish. ya don't like it? too fucking bad. it's your problem, not mine. i get defensive when 2 people who don't know shit about something try to interject with no basis for their stance. like i said before, you two that are arguing against defo is like saying 1 on 1 sex is better than a fucking 2 girls at once when you've never done it! until you do, you don't know shit!

keep posting your scrog yields though, when no1 else will pat you on your back i guess it pays to toot your own horn.