commies

[Cannavore]

Yo buddy thanks for answering a few select questions but you skipped over the only one I wanted you to answer…
what happens in cannavoristan when the worker coop loses money and isn’t profitable for the year..
do the workers have to work for free to make up the deficit?
Most businesses fail…
so it stands to reason some of the worker owned coops will face times where they’re unprofitable..
what happens then? No wages for awhile?
i understand workers will be stoked to share profits (extra money)
will they be willing to share in the downside of ownership ( sharing in the losses) ?

the same thing that happens now lol. people lose their jobs and businesses go under.

you say that even if a buisness is losing money and still paying it’s promised wages to its workers that it’s somehow still stealing from its workers…
can you elaborate?
where is the theft? In that example the owner is going in his own pocket to make the workers whole..
I honestly don’t get it.

the theft is in the wage itself. you're not being compensated for the full value of your labor because another person is profitting off you.

also you’re only talking about one company (Amazon)..

i'm talking about the richest guy in the world and one of the biggest employers in the world

there are millions of businesses that are smaller and treat their workers better…

larger businesses employ majority of working americans and are the most egregious when it comes to what i'm talking about.

it’s the Strawman of examples of tyranny in the workplace and yet none of the workers at Amazon are in true bondage…

do you have any idea of the working conditions for people that work for a company such as Amazon? or how about meat packing plants? These people have to wear diapers on the job because they will get fired if they take a bathroom break. Richest most prosperous first world country on the planet and we have fully grown adults wearing diapers to work.

a guy in the marine corps is under far more tyranny than the Amazon warehouse worker…

joining the service is voluntary. pimping yourself out to another individual because you need money to stay alive is not.

idk it just doesn’t make sense to me… if one can quit the job… then that’s it. Shitty relationship with employer is over…
employee is free to negotiate with another employer to the best of their ability.

you say this as if all businesses don't exist to extract as much profit and make the owners as wealthy as possible lol. you leave one job for another and you likely will go through the same nonsense.

also quitting a job is a luxury many people do not have. theres plenty of people stuck/forced to work wherever they work because all other options have been exhausted or theres no other work.

And btw I don’t give a fuck about democracy.
I care about freedom.
if The majority voted to put a group of people in chains (slavery) it would still be unjust bullshit.

you and packer immediately jump to "mob rule" lol our country is a type of democracy. that's all i meant. and i'd argue democracy is the best way to defend freedom so in my mind the two are linked. my definition of freedom extends to cover economic freedom as well. like not making people go bankrupt because they developed an illness. or not putting the next generation into unnecessary debt before they graduate college

 

[JKD]

the theft is in the wage itself. you're not being compensated for the full value of your labor because another person is profitting off you.

I thought of temping/recruitment agencies after reading this and wonder whether it highlights this point. You know the agency charges at least double what the employee will get paid, but that also tells us that’s at least what the employee would be worth to the employer. In non-agency, regular employment there is still a difference between what the employee is worth and what they get paid by that employer, it’s just less obvious.

I don’t give a fuck about democracy.
I care about freedom.

Careful; that reads like you’re an Anarchist… In step with the anti-capitalist far left

do you have any idea of the working conditions for people that work for a company such as Amazon? or how about meat packing plants? These people have to wear diapers on the job because they will get fired if they take a bathroom break. Richest most prosperous first world country on the planet and we have fully grown adults wearing diapers to work.

This has given me an interest in a comparison of worker conditions in large factories and warehouses in the US, China, Vietnam etc. Similarities and differences, things that are better or worse and so on. Perhaps we’d all find ourselves disappointed?


_____
On democracy:

The Good State by A.C Grayling is a quick read (250 pages) and puts some good ideas towards (in the authors’ opinion) a better democracy.

Another with interesting ideas and insights is Democracy for Realists by Christopher Achen and Larry Bartels.

Both of these books also have author interviews, analysis, lectures etc available on YouTube.

 

['Boogieman']

do you have any idea of the working conditions for people that work for a company such as Amazon? or how about meat packing plants? These people have to wear diapers on the job because they will get fired if they take a bathroom break. Richest most prosperous first world country on the planet and we have fully grown adults wearing diapers to work.

I don't believe you, do you have credible proof? I actually know someone who works in a Amazon packaging facility and he never told me anything like this.

 

[audiohi]

DOCUMENTS SHOW AMAZON IS AWARE DRIVERS PEE IN BOTTLES AND EVEN DEFECATE EN ROUTE, DESPITE COMPANY DENIAL
https://theintercept.com/2021/03/25/...bottles-union/



14-hour days and no bathroom breaks: Amazon's overworked delivery drivers

Drivers report being underpaid and having to urinate in bottles in their vehicles to keep up with delivery rates​

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/11/amazon-delivery-drivers-bathroom-breaks-unions







And that's just the drivers. How about those warehouse workers and their quotas they must hit?

Under pressure, afraid to take bathroom breaks? Inside Amazon’s fast-paced warehouse world
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...rehouse-world/

 

[imiubu]

Remove the dam quota's or at least make them realistic. How about outfitting those fancy vans with toilet facilities?
The solution/s here is/ are not rocket science, sigh.
Delivery drivers for any company should not be forced to rely upon public facilities for a natural and very necessary bodily function.
IMO, this is %100 those companies responsibility. Their lack of foresight has quite rightfully dumped this nasty
little issue on their doorstep.
Take some of those mega profits Jeff and create a system for your employees to comfortably answer natures call.

My ex drove OTR and ran 3 sets of books (the only way to make decent $). He peed in a pickle jar.
At least he regularly and safely emptied and washed it. Others obviously are less conscientious unfortunately.
I'm imagining a time where workers will be hooked up with a feed tube and elimination tubing.
Ah, the future looks so bright aye?

 

[JKD]

Also,
Hired: Six Months Undercover in Low-Wage Britain @ https://www.waterstones.com/book/hired/james-bloodworth/9781786490162

Which is about the authors’ stint at an Amazon facility in the UK

 

[Cannavore]

 

[Cannavore]

I don't believe you, do you have credible proof? I actually know someone who works in a Amazon packaging facility and he never told me anything like this.

Poultry Workers, Denied Bathroom Breaks, Wear Diapers: Oxfam Report

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/bu...room-breaks-wear-diapers-oxfam-report-n572806

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Robots wont need bathroom breaks - probably wont be long until AI robots will be used as delivery drivers - and/or just drones - to deliver packages - so delivery driving might well soon be a disappearing type of employment for humans - sad but true -

 

[igrowone]

what about AI consumers?
much easier to deal with than the human variety
maybe I shouldn't have mentioned this?

 

[Cannavore]

Robots wont need bathroom breaks - probably wont be long until AI robots will be used as delivery drivers - and/or just drones - to deliver packages - so delivery driving might well soon be a disappearing type of employment for humans - sad but true -

Marx was talking about this nearly 200yrs ago

https://medium.com/@MichaelMcBride/...icial-intelligence-170-years-ago-4fd7c23505ef

 

[Brother Nature]

Robots wont need bathroom breaks - probably wont be long until AI robots will be used as delivery drivers - and/or just drones - to deliver packages - so delivery driving might well soon be a disappearing type of employment for humans - sad but true -

Still need people to design and fix the robots though.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Still need people to design and fix the robots though.

- Yes but how long before robots are designing and fixing other robots? - looks to me like there will be a huge surplus of unemployed/unemployable humans - redundant farm and factory workers - human labour surplus to requirements - with most all of the wealth in just a few hands - this will lead to either another cull (WW3?) - or a revolution - if the politically polarized redundant masses can ever get the upper hand - if they can ever get organized enough to challenge the establishment - and not be fooled again to fight against each other - instead of the 'leaders' via the media that is encouraging them to fight - that is turning brothers/sisters against each other -

 

[Brother Nature]

- Yes but how long before robots are designing and fixing other robots? - looks to me like there will be a huge surplus of unemployed/unemployable humans - redundant farm and factory workers - human labour surplus to requirements - with most all of the wealth in just a few hands - this will lead to either another cull (WW3?) - or a revolution - if the politically polarized redundant masses can ever get the upper hand - if they can ever get organized enough to challenge the establishment - and not be fooled again to fight against each other - instead of the 'leaders' via the media that is encouraging them to fight - that is turning brothers/sisters against each other -

That's a bleak outlook, but I can completely understand where it comes from. Maybe it's just the c99 in me, or the fact I've had a great day today, but I 'd like to offer an alternative view. I do see a robotic revolution, the vast majority of human held jobs today can easily be replaced with machines and AI learning, Silicon Valley is already well ahead in this aspect and starting it's implementation in our daily lives. I'm not so sure it's a bad thing. If the economy becomes autonomous, those same humans who brought in the autonomy will also become obsolete, there will be no requirement for human beings to lead the Tesla's, Microsoft's, Googles, Amazons, etc.. of the future. So there shouldn't be any need for wealth accumulation. This also could be a good thing. With an even playing field we could easily focus on educating the masses more, reconditioning the 'tribalism' you speak about, and working together to improve the human species more. We could look at how to harness energy from our own solar system better and expand the human base from simply earth to the rest of the universe where we could adapt and grow even more as a species. Kind of like instead of fighting ourselves we could instead control the universe...

 

[Chi13]

That's a bleak outlook, but I can completely understand where it comes from. Maybe it's just the c99 in me, or the fact I've had a great day today, but I 'd like to offer an alternative view. I do see a robotic revolution, the vast majority of human held jobs today can easily be replaced with machines and AI learning, Silicon Valley is already well ahead in this aspect and starting it's implementation in our daily lives. I'm not so sure it's a bad thing. If the economy becomes autonomous, those same humans who brought in the autonomy will also become obsolete, there will be no requirement for human beings to lead the Tesla's, Microsoft's, Googles, Amazons, etc.. of the future. So there shouldn't be any need for wealth accumulation. This also could be a good thing. With an even playing field we could easily focus on educating the masses more, reconditioning the 'tribalism' you speak about, and working together to improve the human species more. We could look at how to harness energy from our own solar system better and expand the human base from simply earth to the rest of the universe where we could adapt and grow even more as a species. Kind of like instead of fighting ourselves we could instead control the universe...

You make a good argument for taking c99, that's for sure!

A world like that would be great, but all our economies are geared toward making money for those humans who are in power. I am not sure they will give that up for the benefit of humanity. I do hope you are right though. Now pass me some of that c99 please.

 

[buzzmobile]

That's a bleak outlook, but I can completely understand where it comes from. Maybe it's just the c99 in me, or the fact I've had a great day today, but I 'd like to offer an alternative view. I do see a robotic revolution, the vast majority of human held jobs today can easily be replaced with machines and AI learning, Silicon Valley is already well ahead in this aspect and starting it's implementation in our daily lives. I'm not so sure it's a bad thing. If the economy becomes autonomous, those same humans who brought in the autonomy will also become obsolete, there will be no requirement for human beings to lead the Tesla's, Microsoft's, Googles, Amazons, etc.. of the future. So there shouldn't be any need for wealth accumulation. This also could be a good thing. With an even playing field we could easily focus on educating the masses more, reconditioning the 'tribalism' you speak about, and working together to improve the human species more. We could look at how to harness energy from our own solar system better and expand the human base from simply earth to the rest of the universe where we could adapt and grow even more as a species. Kind of like instead of fighting ourselves we could instead control the universe...

I watched this while running around the UToob rabbit holes.
The Superintelligence That Created a Universe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjeN1Ea8uns

 

[Cannavore]

Yeah no way. Our descendents will be space serfs mining Martian rocks for immortal AI Elon Musk.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Krystal Ball: Buffalo Elects First SOCIALIST Mayor Of Major City In 60 Years



notice how she says that we have socialism for the rich, why not have it for everyone in terms of health care and education, it will pay off 100 fold

 

[Cannavore]

i don't really know her yet but i'm betting she's another "bernie/aoc socialist" aka calls themselves a democratic socialist but in reality they are social democrats (which would be mainstream/populist lefty/labor politicians in the EU). the socialism for the rich line is 100% a bernie style talking point.

America is weird with their political definitions, mainly due to much of our system and overton window being a complete charade. Not a single elected Democratic Socialist in the US has ever advocated for the means of production to be owned by the workers.

Plus the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) contains non socialist membership from Progressive Democrats and Social Democrats as well. It's basically a big tent lefty org.

 

[imiubu]

You make a good argument for taking c99, that's for sure!

A world like that would be great, but all our economies are geared toward making money for those humans who are in power. I am not sure they will give that up for the benefit of humanity. I do hope you are right though. Now pass me some of that c99 please.

Ohh she's so fine, my c99 ppp (hey, where'd the ppp smiley go?)