CMH vs LED vs HPS

[CannaT]

​

" HID (High-Intensity Discharge) lights, including HPS (High-Pressure Sodium) and MH (Metal Halide) lights, emit a significant amount of radiant heat, which can affect plant growth and development. This heat can also impact the production of volatile compounds, including volatile sulfur compounds (VSCs).
In contrast, LED (Light Emitting Diode) lights generate much less radiant heat, which can lead to a cooler growing environment for plants. This cooler environment may lead to a reduction in the production of VSCs and other volatile compounds compared to plants grown under HID lights.
However, it's worth noting that the production of volatile compounds can be influenced by many factors beyond just the type of lighting used, such as genetics, growing conditions, and cultivation practices.
So while it's possible that LED lights could result in lower levels of VSCs compared to HID lights, it's also possible that the specific growing conditions and practices used could lead to different outcomes. Further research is needed to fully understand the relationship between lighting and the production of VSCs in plants."

Those VSCs are those what make strains pungent,chemical and fuely skunky over the top.
And are compounds that make pungent smells.

 

[Dr.Mantis]

​

" HID (High-Intensity Discharge) lights, including HPS (High-Pressure Sodium) and MH (Metal Halide) lights, emit a significant amount of radiant heat, which can affect plant growth and development. This heat can also impact the production of volatile compounds, including volatile sulfur compounds (VSCs).
In contrast, LED (Light Emitting Diode) lights generate much less radiant heat, which can lead to a cooler growing environment for plants. This cooler environment may lead to a reduction in the production of VSCs and other volatile compounds compared to plants grown under HID lights.
However, it's worth noting that the production of volatile compounds can be influenced by many factors beyond just the type of lighting used, such as genetics, growing conditions, and cultivation practices.
So while it's possible that LED lights could result in lower levels of VSCs compared to HID lights, it's also possible that the specific growing conditions and practices used could lead to different outcomes. Further research is needed to fully understand the relationship between lighting and the production of VSCs in plants."

Those VSCs are those what make strains pungent,chemical and fuely skunky over the top.
And are compounds that make pungent smells.

I’m interested in that quote, where did it come from? VSC stim is something I’ve been researching for a while.

 

[Hammerhead]

I use an HLG Diablo.. I have the hardest time getting plants to grow happily under this LED vs others. Those plants always yellow much faster than the other LEDS do.

Lots of good info here

InSpire Blog | Does Light Spectrum Alter Plant Transpiration Rates?

Disclaimer: This article originally appeared in the September 2021 issue of Cannabis Science & Technology.

inspire.ag

Robbie Batts

Cannabis Science and Technology is the leading resource for the latest updates on analytical testing, cultivation, extraction, and more in the cannabis industry.

www.cannabissciencetech.com

 

[Crooked8]

Day 1 under Agrobar 720s

 

[CannaT]

I’m interested in that quote, where did it come from? VSC stim is something I’ve been researching for a while.

Sulfur compounds are known to contribute to the pungent smell of some plants, such as garlic, onions, and certain herbs. While there is limited research on the effect of LED and HPS lights on sulfur compound production in plants, here are a few studies that may be of interest:

A study published in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2017) found that onion plants grown under LED lights had lower levels of sulfur compounds compared to those grown under HPS lights. The study suggested that the differences in light spectra between LED and HPS lights may have contributed to the differences in sulfur compound production.

Another study published in the Journal of Plant Physiology (2018) found that garlic plants grown under LED lights had lower levels of allicin, a sulfur-containing compound that contributes to garlic's pungent aroma and flavor, compared to those grown under HPS lights. The study suggested that the lower levels of allicin in LED-grown garlic may have been due to differences in light intensity and spectral composition.

These studies suggest that LED and HPS lights can have different effects on sulfur compound production in plants. However, it's important to note that these studies focused on specific plants and may not necessarily apply to all plants.

1. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2017) - "Effect of Light Spectra on Volatile Sulfur Compounds and Transcriptomic Profile in Onion (Allium cepa L.) Bulbs" - https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jafc.7b02201
2. Journal of Plant Physiology (2018) - "Effect of different light intensities and spectral compositions on the accumulation of allicin in garlic sprouts" - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0176161717310531

 

[Dr.Mantis]

Sulfur compounds are known to contribute to the pungent smell of some plants, such as garlic, onions, and certain herbs. While there is limited research on the effect of LED and HPS lights on sulfur compound production in plants, here are a few studies that may be of interest:

A study published in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2017) found that onion plants grown under LED lights had lower levels of sulfur compounds compared to those grown under HPS lights. The study suggested that the differences in light spectra between LED and HPS lights may have contributed to the differences in sulfur compound production.

Another study published in the Journal of Plant Physiology (2018) found that garlic plants grown under LED lights had lower levels of allicin, a sulfur-containing compound that contributes to garlic's pungent aroma and flavor, compared to those grown under HPS lights. The study suggested that the lower levels of allicin in LED-grown garlic may have been due to differences in light intensity and spectral composition.

These studies suggest that LED and HPS lights can have different effects on sulfur compound production in plants. However, it's important to note that these studies focused on specific plants and may not necessarily apply to all plants.

1. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2017) - "Effect of Light Spectra on Volatile Sulfur Compounds and Transcriptomic Profile in Onion (Allium cepa L.) Bulbs" - https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jafc.7b02201
2. Journal of Plant Physiology (2018) - "Effect of different light intensities and spectral compositions on the accumulation of allicin in garlic sprouts" - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0176161717310531

Hey thank you for sharing, I appreciate it!

I’m all about thiols in cannabis, I miss the stank, and I think vsc are the stank I’m missing. I’m going to read those a bit more in depth later. Anecdotally, I’ve had plenty of people mention outdoor strains can be more “skunky” than indoor stuff, I wonder how much the sun spectrum impacts this? Is it the IR, the NIR, the UV? Very interesting stuff!

 

[Crooked8]

Hey thank you for sharing, I appreciate it!

I’m all about thiols in cannabis, I miss the stank, and I think vsc are the stank I’m missing. I’m going to read those a bit more in depth later. Anecdotally, I’ve had plenty of people mention outdoor strains can be more “skunky” than indoor stuff, I wonder how much the sun spectrum impacts this? Is it the IR, the NIR, the UV? Very interesting stuff!

Unlikely that its the UV. Bugbee and his team did an experiment in chambers testing UVA UVB and UVC and found little to no evidence of increased cannabinoids or terpene production in any of those nanometer ranges. I would bet more on IR.

 

[Cerathule]

If we really want to understand which light is closest to the sun, we need to figure out first how the sun works, scientists tell us it's a big orb of magma burning at a million degrees shooting heat and light as a result, if you believe that you need to go check your brain.

The more reasonable explanation which you can see with your eyes and not listen to idiots with your ears, is that the sun is a magnetic object, that travel through the sky vibrating noble gases (think neon signs and how they work) which in turn create light.
It's really that simple, and it's the main reason why the sun is bright white/yellow and the sky is rainbow colors depending on the gases present.
The vibration or frequency of the sun is what makes those gases excited and create their light.
If you ever see what happens to iron when u apply a magnetic field to it, it will spin and get so hot it will shine bright white, but won't lose its structure due to the heat, as the magnetic field keeps it from melting.
The same thing happens with our stars in the sky, they are vibrateting energy, which causes them to shine white bright.
Don't believe me ? Go look at the stars from a Nikon 80x zoom, you'll understand why we say Nasa is a bunch of lying idiots.

Now that you know the truth, you can look at the man made techand try to mimic what God knew would be best.

If you still choose LEDs, you just don't understand how nature works.
We agreed that almost all light sources in all the watt ratings will grow plants, some better some worse, but how can we know if the plants are doing their most under each light ?
That's why I highlight the smoke tests again and again, cuz I'm with crooked8, led bud grows and looks amazing no doubt
But, it just doesn't smoke the same, and this is my opinion, not fact, opinion that seem to have some backup
I tried so much led weed, not even one had the smell, taste, potency of simple 16% thc hps bud haha, I think its becoming clear that some of those arrays can do something, maybe...
But most of them just give shit product.
The tech itself is good, if you wanna grow spearmint or just veg some lettuce
Nasa also told u this, but you choose to apply them In flowering essential oil plants lol
No one is dismissing the science, we are dismissing the people who drew wrong conclusions from it
View attachment 18840062

LOL I laughed so hard when I read oh "we need to understand the sun" then "magma" LOLOL

If you are new to lighting concepts please understand, you cannot add rate per sec by adding same rate per sec source ! The rate per sec will stay the same.
I don't care if Ca+ or Crooked8 or Cerathule thinks otherwise, it can't be done, only on paper.
All LEDs do is just spread light better, but for that task they sacrifice the source strength.

Hey Snake, over at Grower.ch we have several professional psychiatrists currently debating whether Cannabis can actually induce psychosis and other delusional state of mind. Would you mind please signing up there and making a case for it? Because they are doubing it but I'm sure, really sure in your case we have the proof in the pudding XDXD

 

[Dr.Mantis]

Unlikely that its the UV. Bugbee and his team did an experiment in chambers testing UVA UVB and UVC and found little to no evidence of increased cannabinoids or terpene production in any of those nanometer ranges. I would bet more on IR.

Anecdotally, applying my agromax uvb uva bulb to my past grows seems to increase the stink. Though, I haven’t run a controlled experiment or had it lab tested. I think uv is part of it, but not the whole picture. Uv induces oxidative stress in cannabis and other plants, part of the oxidative stress response pathways are the production of thiols, which are very potent antioxidants. I do think NIR and IR play a role as well, but I’m not sure how.

 

[snakedope]

LOL I laughed so hard when I read oh "we need to understand the sun" then "magma" LOLOL

You laugh but no explanation from you, wonder why...
You are smart when it comes to reading studies but blind when it comes to know such basic stuff,
I get that you don't really know how the sun work, but go read a study they will probably tell you, you don't need to think today.

Hey Snake, over at Grower.ch we have several professional psychiatrists currently debating whether Cannabis can actually induce psychosis and other delusional state of mind. Would you mind please signing up there and making a case for it? Because they are doubing it but I'm sure, really sure in your case we have the proof in the pudding XDXD

So far many studies point exectly to what I'm saying and describing, so... You can eat your hat whenever you want sir, we are waiting

 

[snakedope]

Sulfur compounds are known to contribute to the pungent smell of some plants, such as garlic, onions, and certain herbs. While there is limited research on the effect of LED and HPS lights on sulfur compound production in plants, here are a few studies that may be of interest:

A study published in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2017) found that onion plants grown under LED lights had lower levels of sulfur compounds compared to those grown under HPS lights. The study suggested that the differences in light spectra between LED and HPS lights may have contributed to the differences in sulfur compound production.

Another study published in the Journal of Plant Physiology (2018) found that garlic plants grown under LED lights had lower levels of allicin, a sulfur-containing compound that contributes to garlic's pungent aroma and flavor, compared to those grown under HPS lights. The study suggested that the lower levels of allicin in LED-grown garlic may have been due to differences in light intensity and spectral composition.

These studies suggest that LED and HPS lights can have different effects on sulfur compound production in plants. However, it's important to note that these studies focused on specific plants and may not necessarily apply to all plants.

1. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2017) - "Effect of Light Spectra on Volatile Sulfur Compounds and Transcriptomic Profile in Onion (Allium cepa L.) Bulbs" - https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jafc.7b02201
2. Journal of Plant Physiology (2018) - "Effect of different light intensities and spectral compositions on the accumulation of allicin in garlic sprouts" - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0176161717310531

Allicin is the most important compound in garlic, it's described as the most powerful antibiotic in nature, I use it myself.
Led is making it less grow ? Wow what a shocker lol

"The study suggested that the lower levels of allicin in LED-grown garlic may have been due to differences in light intensity and spectral composition."

Hahaha LEDs are truly a joke on the masses
May have been
But I thought led was more intense ?? And had better spectrum ??
Wow reality sure has a way of beating led fan boys in the face

 

[Vegg69guerilla]

hps hits and terps different..

 

[Crooked8]

Allicin is the most important compound in garlic, it's described as the most powerful antibiotic in nature, I use it myself.
Led is making it less grow ? Wow what a shocker lol

"The study suggested that the lower levels of allicin in LED-grown garlic may have been due to differences in light intensity and spectral composition."

Hahaha LEDs are truly a joke on the masses
May have been
But I thought led was more intense ?? And had better spectrum ??
Wow reality sure has a way of beating led fan boys in the face

“However, it's important to note that these studies focused on specific plants and may not necessarily apply to all plants.”

You cant just take what you want from studies and apply it wherever. They put that quote in there for a reason.

 

[Crooked8]

hps hits and terps different..

Wow, a plant.

 

[Vegg69guerilla]

I understand your scorn....

 

[Crooked8]

I understand your scorn....

No scorn, nice plant.

 

[Jellyfish]

I understand your scorn....

I took it as, 'wow, a plant, what does that prove? We can all pretty much grow plants like that.' I do that with CFL's, what's the big deal?

 

[Dr.Mantis]

Another anecdote from me to fuel the shit throwing:

I moved my flowering plants out of the Cmh tent, and into the led tent so I could clean it up and move some things around. All of these plants were clones, except two ssh Catpiss bx4 seedlings. Their mothers were previously flowered under led in solo cups (aka non ideal conditions). While moving them, they all were quite odiferous. The Maruf black plants were especially interesting. In LED, they mostly had a mild sour earthy smell. The clones under Cmh have that same character, but with a more pronounced sulfury character. Kind of like rubber or old garlic. Again, not scientific at all but interesting too me. It also could just be heat volatilization. The LED tent never got over 80f, while they Cmh regularly gets to 86-88f in the day.

 

[snakedope]

“However, it's important to note that these studies focused on specific plants and may not necessarily apply to all plants.”

You cant just take what you want from studies and apply it wherever. They put that quote in there for a reason.

How many studies on how many plants do you want to see before you realize there is a problem with those lights ?
They are not more intense (cuz you can't total them), they don't have a better spectrum, each plant you put under it so far is giving lame results in what most matters, the compounds that are derived from them, what we actually looking for, is missing or present in much lower qty.
For me it all adds up from what I see in reality, studies, other reviews from people here and there, the smoke screen has been lifted on those evil light tech, its here to destroy nature and it's processes, just like any move big companies make, they are all in on it.

 

[Crooked8]

How many studies on how many plants do you want to see before you realize there is a problem with those lights ?
They are not more intense (cuz you can't total them), they don't have a better spectrum, each plant you put under it so far is giving lame results in what most matters, the compounds that are derived from them, what we actually looking for, is missing or present in much lower qty.
For me it all adds up from what I see in reality, studies, other reviews from people here and there, the smoke screen has been lifted on those evil light tech, its here to destroy nature and it's processes, just like any move big companies make, they are all in on it.

I dont have lame results and as ive stated before, both cannabinoid and terp tests are higher. Client reviews are also raving how things are stronger and taste better than before the switch. So ill need literally any study that is applicable to cannabis that proves your theory. So far ive annihilated all your theories. All stalk no cap, trichomes dont turn amber, less terps, less thc all that bs is out the window. Just because someone posted a study about garlic wont convince me that all my client reviews and personal tests are bogus, sorry, im not an idiot. You tend to hear one thing that fits your narrative and run with it, rather than proving it without any shadow of a doubt. Im a very thorough person, as you can tell. I will happily continue to debate and be respectful as long as you do the same. Also, as ive mentioned before, they ARE more intense because they fill an equal space with more photons. You absolutely can total them, because the plants main driver is light, measure in ppfd, which is higher under led. Thats both science AND reality lol.