Can I increase my odds of getting a male for breeding?

[Asche]

Does stressing seeds to germinate for a desired sex
lead to hermi plants?

good question, but as it is all chemical also how the seeds interact
with the environment through temperature, it might be that seeding
under stressful conditions may induce the genetics to adapt early
which might have consequences seen later.

so if you fuck it up in the beginning you may harvest pollen...

genetics may have to be seen as implied before as frequencies in a condition
of permanent change, a seed detected as a male according to this thread
in which it may be determinable Caldera based seed sexing
may become female if it can change the frequency

and as candidly pointed out there also may be some with a stronger frequency
which may not be changeable too easy if at all.. so called XX females if i believe so.

but as for now its all speculative even though it might be logically explainable.

 

[Dropped Cat]

I'll continue to germinate with average temps and
take what I get. I use CS to reverse mature females
to get the pollen for my breeding adventures.

There is a thread by Sam about reversing males,
but so far I haven't messed with that.

 

[Asche]

wanted to do that with the CS too some time ago
but i thought that if you want to get some fems
then why not just doing the rodelization method

haven´t had luck with finding any
which i wanted to fem yet

lets see


so and to finally substitute the male here
a little more also with pictures

maybe we can get a bit more pictures here
i start with one male for now

strain name denied
dont ask

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

First of all I do generally agree with what Chimera said, that said my Original Haze seeds when grown by the tens of thousands have constantly produced 60% or more females. I do not know why, they are also less intersexed then just about any seed variety I have grown. They also have 75+ seeds to the gram vs the usual 50-60 per gram.
-SamS

With all due respect badger, that's a crock. I've germinated many many thousands of seeds in my day and all the regular seeds statistically approach 50/50 males:females the more seeds you grow. When you grow smaller lots you 'think' you see things that you assume make the gender lean towards one direction or another, but as the population size grows the apparent 'effect' disappears. I've grown many sets of seeds and used genetic markers to screen for the presence of the Y chromosome and it is %100 percent concordant with gender outcome.

You can alter gender expression with ethylene blockers or by spraying males with ethephon, you can pull crazy stresses on plants and make them show as intersex, but that effect is transient and does not alter the gender. Gender is determined by genetics, as stated previously, not by environment. This has been discussed ad nauseum over a series of internet fora, including this one so I'm not going to rehash it all here.

You can lead a horse to water....

-Chimera

 

[Asche]

hmm i dont know if anything is right or wrong here.
there are many opinions and no real proof so far
so we shall not be ignorant proceeding with open eyes.

and i have another suggestion which may sound a bit dull
but is for sure right..

Q: Can i increase my odds of getting a male for breeding?
A: just seed a few more plants and keep searching

if its for the breeding i would not go by any other method anyway.

 

[DrPimpNugs]

Q: Can I increase my odds of getting a male for breeding?

A:, No, gender is determined genetically.

Not necessarily...

"Low temperature during seedling stage promotes female flower determination but not yield of Chieh-qua"

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13580-012-0087-2

It has been reported in more than one report the effects of temperature on gender determination of plants except CANNABIS is not included,(cucumbers mainly though) so technically, no one in this thread knows, not the "pro" growers, nor the "newbies" because marijuana research on a scientific level has been taboo up until now, and even this is going to face major hurdles in the next few years. Don't believe me? Go check out Cheech and Chongs facebook and you will find an army of right-wing anti-marijuana fanaticals en-masse outnumbering and harassing the potheads.

When we get some hard facts about THIS SPECIES of plant, then we can make assured scientific statements, until then, it's ALL opinion.

-DPN

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

What the hell are you talking about? Do you mean that you do not know? You can believe what ever you want about Cannabis sex expression, but it does not make it true.
Marijuana reproduction is pretty well understood.
Marijuana is legally researched at many places around the world, even the USA.
As for a lack of hard facts, so answer one or more you think are important and help solve the problem you perceive.

Anyway the answer to your question is yes, you can temporarily alter gender expression with ethylene blockers, you can pull crazy stresses on plants and make them show as intersex, but that effect is transient and does not permanently alter the gender. Gender is determined by genetics, as stated previously, not by environment.
But you will have male pollen to use.
If you do this you might want to be as sure as you can the male is not carrying inter-sex genes before you use it and pass the genes on to progeny. Use females that do not form male flowers when stressed, and you may find what you want. STS the female and you will have male pollen to use for breeding.
Or just grow more regular M/F seeds and select and use a normal male if you wan to breed with normal males.
You can still try and use non inter-sex females for breeding with normal males as the goal is the same, to reduce the incidence of inter-sex genes.
-SamS

Not necessarily...

"Low temperature during seedling stage promotes female flower determination but not yield of Chieh-qua"

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13580-012-0087-2

It has been reported in more than one report the effects of temperature on gender determination of plants except CANNABIS is not included,(cucumbers mainly though) so technically, no one in this thread knows, not the "pro" growers, nor the "newbies" because marijuana research on a scientific level has been taboo up until now, and even this is going to face major hurdles in the next few years. Don't believe me? Go check out Cheech and Chongs facebook and you will find an army of right-wing anti-marijuana fanaticals en-masse outnumbering and harassing the potheads.

When we get some hard facts about THIS SPECIES of plant, then we can make assured scientific statements, until then, it's ALL opinion.

-DPN

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hey DPN,
Read your quoted link, about "hairy mellons" it says:
Regardless of their sex, all floral buds are initially hermaphrodite as it is the arrest of stamen or pistil that leads to unisexual flowers....
-SamS

Not necessarily...

"Low temperature during seedling stage promotes female flower determination but not yield of Chieh-qua"

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13580-012-0087-2

It has been reported in more than one report the effects of temperature on gender determination of plants except CANNABIS is not included,(cucumbers mainly though) so technically, no one in this thread knows, not the "pro" growers, nor the "newbies" because marijuana research on a scientific level has been taboo up until now, and even this is going to face major hurdles in the next few years. Don't believe me? Go check out Cheech and Chongs facebook and you will find an army of right-wing anti-marijuana fanaticals en-masse outnumbering and harassing the potheads.

When we get some hard facts about THIS SPECIES of plant, then we can make assured scientific statements, until then, it's ALL opinion.

-DPN

 

[DrPimpNugs]

Hey DPN,
Read your quoted link, about "hairy mellons" it says:
Regardless of their sex, all floral buds are initially hermaphrodite as it is the arrest of stamen or pistil that leads to unisexual flowers....
-SamS

If you had read the citation list you would have found a slew of articles regarding the effects of temperature on gender expression. How is that genotypical and not phenotypical I don't understand, it's the genetic response to stimuli?

If it was solely genetic then temperature, nor would ANY factor other than DNA would alter the sex of the plant. Those studies and alot of grower experience enforces the concept that sex can be changed by environmental factors, especially given that it has genes for both sex organs as you stated. I am a newbie, I just did a simple google search and found actual scientific information not just commercial growing hearsay.

I even stated that since we don't have actual scientific research papers on the effects of temperature on cannabis sex in a laboratory academic setting, my links might actually not mean shit, because for cannabis, it may be different. If not, then it is most definitely not a purely genetically determined factor.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

No problem,
I can see it may be a waste of time talking to you.
I did read the citation and looked at the references, none were about Cannabis, a lot for cucumbers and melons which do respond to seedling temps with alterations in sex ratios. Cannabis does not.
I have grown Cannabis, Rope and Dope in Dozens of countries, literally millions of plants no joke. I have worked with the top hemp breeders and know almost all the top Drug Cannabis breeders in the world, and none believe this, why?
If you do really believe it, prove it with a test, instead of being convinced that it could be true, try and prove it to be true. Simple enough.
BTW Like a lot of old science it was believed that cold effected Cannabis sex ratios, but they really had no idea about it.
People used to believe that all the Cannabinoids were formed from CBD, now it is known it is CBG not CBD.
Try reading: The Inheritance of Chemical Phenotype in Cannabis sativa L. by Etienne P. M. de Meijer
http://www.genetics.org/content/163/1/335.full

He has 3 other articles on inheritance of Chemical Phenotype in Cannabis you can read online or PM me if you cant find them.
He wrote the book on inheritance in Cannabis.
-SamS

If you had read the citation list you would have found a slew of articles regarding the effects of temperature on gender expression. How is that genotypical and not phenotypical I don't understand, it's the genetic response to stimuli?

If it was solely genetic then temperature, nor would ANY factor other than DNA would alter the sex of the plant. Those studies and alot of grower experience enforces the concept that sex can be changed by environmental factors, especially given that it has genes for both sex organs as you stated. I am a newbie, I just did a simple google search and found actual scientific information not just commercial growing hearsay.

I even stated that since we don't have actual scientific research papers on the effects of temperature on cannabis sex in a laboratory academic setting, my links might actually not mean shit, because for cannabis, it may be different. If not, then it is most definitely not a purely genetically determined factor.

 

[Mister_D]

Thanks for the reading sam . I may pm you later for the other papers if I am unable to locate them myself .

 

[Asche]

I can see it may be a waste of time talking to you.

-SamS

i know you are a breeder vendor ok but sorry Sam whoever you are
your way of treating people is not justifiable.

i cant see much wrong what was written so please stick to the facts
and please lets not get arrogant here there is a lot of research being done
but no way to be sure about it.

keep it with respect people.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Wrong, I am not a vendor.
If you read the thread and all the links you will see I was a bit rude but he is just being ridiculous by using hairy melons to prove his point. I am sure about what I have seen with my own eyes, and I have not seen cold exposure altering the sex ratios of M/F in Cannabis seedlings, and in fact I have found very young Cannabis seedings almost immune to cold as adversed to flowering Cannabis that is often damaged or destroyed by cold exposures.
But he can do the tests to prove he is correct, if he wants to.
Until then...
-SamS

i know you are a breeder vendor ok but sorry Sam whoever you are
your way of treating people is not justifiable.

i cant see much wrong what was written so please stick to the facts
and please lets not get arrogant here there is a lot of research being done
but no way to be sure about it.

keep it with respect people.

 

[stoned-trout]

some people have no respect and don't listen to those with mucho experience...thanks for your time sam and chimera.....peace

 

[Asche]

Wrong, I am not a vendor.
If you read the thread and all the links you will see I was a bit rude but he is just being ridiculous by using hairy melons to prove his point. I am sure about what I have seen with my own eyes, and I have not seen cold exposure altering the sex ratios of M/F in Cannabis seedlings, and in fact I have found very young Cannabis seedings almost immune to cold as adversed to flowering Cannabis that is often damaged or destroyed by cold exposures.
But he can do the tests to prove he is correct, if he wants to.
Until then...
-SamS

this is not you selling here?

https://www.seedboutique.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=92&osCsid=61a997e988684bf05bb08657646de919

i thought you where this Sam the Skunman sorry about that
but you do breed and people do look up to you.
so Right or Wrong, whats the difference then.

there is no place for being rude when you want to proceed
and not just to pose around.

the only thing "he" did was trying to bring in some interesting evidence
if you all take it so personal we will never solve anything here.

and sorry stoned-trout.. this is not a celebrity contest here
mucho respect to people who know how to deal things out
in an enjoyable way.. i am not here to fight around

solving things can also be fun.. so please

 

[Asche]

female or male seed.. where does it really start

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

No it is not my seed packages maybe the seeds were mine from years ago, I do not know, but like I said I am not a vendor. I have been retired for years. Ask Gypsy or the folks that run IC.
As for me being rude, I am a pretty direct guy, and when someone uses hairy melon sexual expression to explain Cannabis sexual expression, I find it ridiculous and not even serious.
"interesting evidence" about what?
I did give suggestions and links to lead him in a positive direction.
I am sure you feel different as you have a right to, but you will find I am pretty polite to most folks, I do get tired of fools.
-SamS

this is not you selling here?

https://www.seedboutique.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=92&osCsid=61a997e988684bf05bb08657646de919

i thought you where this Sam the Skunman sorry about that
but you do breed and people do look up to you.
so Right or Wrong, whats the difference then.

there is no place for being rude when you want to proceed
and not just to pose around.

the only thing "he" did was trying to bring in some interesting evidence
if you all take it so personal we will never solve anything here.

and sorry stoned-trout.. this is not a celebrity contest here
mucho respect to people who know how to deal things out
in an enjoyable way.. i am not here to fight around

solving things can also be fun.. so please

 

[stoned-trout]

has nothing to do with celebrity status and all about experience....why do people ask questions and then not listen to the answers......thanks again...I am going fishing ..supermanlives

 

[Asche]

No it is not my seed packages maybe the seeds were mine from years ago, I do not know, but like I said I am not a vendor. I have been retired for years. Ask Gypsy or the folks that run IC.
As for me being rude, I am a pretty direct guy, and when someone uses hairy melon sexual expression to explain Cannabis sexual expression, I find it ridiculous and not even serious.
"interesting evidence" about what?
I did give suggestions and links to lead him in a positive direction.
I am sure you feel different as you have a right to, but you will find I am pretty polite to most folks, I do get tired of fools.
-SamS

social capabilities is something very important, it avoids fights.
a pretty direct guy ok but the lack of diplomacy does not make you more valuable.
and because you are retired that does not relieve you from your duties
on how to enjoy and get along with any kind of contributor.

people do many things as a habit running the same attitude for a long time
maybe even a life time maybe even many life times worth of experience

like the earth is a plate or that earth is the center of the universe
that does not change the fact that its still not proven.

and you can have plenty of reputation but as long as you do not give me
a genetic explanation, i am rather willing to click on links like hairy water melons
trying to understand genetics from a new perspective than to read retired bs.

i keep reading many experiences from many sides
going in 100% opposite directions so whats true?
i will keep my eyes open and see and i hope you do 2.

 

[bayarea925]

It just seams silly to me to even think Mother Nature would even allow environment temperatures to determine sex.