Can ANYONE name the poison Eagle 20 with the active ingredient Myclobutanil??

[Mikell]

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mpBRS003.pdf

"Myclobutanil is moderately persistent with a half-life > 365 days and moderately mobile in soil"

http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehipm/pdf_fung/fung_actives/myclobutanil.pdf

Aerobic Half-life (days) 251

still have no concerns? genuine question no bully

Thanks for posting the MSDS, I was very concerned about what to do in the event a fire breaks out or I mix up my cup of coffee with a bottle of fungicide.

Let's be straight, that isn't a genuine question. You're currently trolling any thread that doesn't recommend freeze dried hippy tears as the go to pest control product.

Please explain why soil half lives have anything to do with treating unrooted cuts. If you're unfamiliar with the term unrooted cut, it refers to a fresh cutting of a plant, root free and without medium (soil or otherwise).

My only concern is water disposal, but truth be told the amount mixed is a joke. Negative effect on the environment? Yep. Comparable to the hydrocarbons released by organic fanatics sourcing products from around the world? Peanuts.

If you had any familiarity with my views, you would have realized I frequently steer other growers away from products containing myclobutanil. There are few safe uses for the product.

Maybe you should pick better targets than StankyBeamer and myself, two of a small group of people who promote safe and limited use of conventional products. There are still plenty of growers spraying poison cocktails up to the day of harvest, although they have little interest in arguing the merits of their poor choices. They have a tendency to make one off ignorant comments as you have in Stankys thread.

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

I specifically said "genuine question no bully"

I was not tageting anyone just asking questions to gather more information, kinda what this forum is for.

How long does eagle 20 stay in your plant?

I cannot locate any plant metabolism rate, or plant half life duration so soil mobility and hydrolysis were used in lieu of

Metabolites from myclobutainil include 1,2,4-triazole

1,2,4-triazole affects the central and peripheral nervous systems, reproductive tissues of both sexes, and the hematological system. Developmental and reproductive effects have been noted for this compound. Based on the available metabolism data from rats and livestock, 1,2,4-triazole may form in humans following exposure to parent triazole compounds

again genuine question.

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

If you had any familiarity with my views, you would have realized I frequently steer other growers away from products containing myclobutanil. There are few safe uses for the product.

Do you tell your patients that you spray that stuff on them, if so I could care less. I doubt it...

 

[frostqueen]

Here's what I want to know. We know that Ea20 is systemic. We know it lasts a long time. Do we know if it stays mobile in the plant tissues? Or does it fix and stay put? This is a key question. Flowers are formed from entirely new tissue. Does it migrate there?

Second: how many ppm does a typical flower sample have in it after, say, 8 weeks after a spray? Or 10 weeks? Somebody was going to get back to us with test results... if we mix this shit at 3 ml/gal and spray in veg, what kind of numbers will we be seeing 8-10 weeks later, in finished flowers? I could probably swing this sort of test in the next month or two, unless somebody already has some numbers...?

States like Oregon are giving maximum ppm of various chemical residues allowed for medical cannabis. See attached. View attachment 333-007-draft-exhibit-a-pesticide-analytes-and-action-levels copy.pdf

Personally I feel a lot more comfortable following a qualified scientist's recommendations than various random internet hippies' butthurt emotional appeals. I guess everybody's mileage varies on that, though.

If .2 ppm is indeed doable you can bet I'll be spraying in late veg with Ea20. Shit's a cropsaver.

 

[Weird]

scientists where behind the same products Monsanto's is in court for (crimes against humanity)

and what butt hurt hippies

I am not butt hurt people are so fucking pathetic they use lawn products on a crop worth thousands per pound and I am not butt hurt I don't anything but natural products to top shelf, consistently.

FWIW No scientist is going to tell you to use a lawn product on medical marijuana so the critical thinking here leaves MUCH to be desired.

 

[Weird]

my certification is more stringent I have 0 tolerance for chemicals

 

[Babbabud]

So i was just at the Emerald Cup ... they test all entries before the judges even get to see them ... figured i would post what they have to say about all these chemicals. You notice that they are saying if ANY is detected that you will be disqualified not that certain amounts are allowable. They dont expose their judges to any chemicals if they can help it .. and we shouldnt expose ourselves or our patients/customers. I really believe that what you see here will pretty much be the industry standard. My thoughts are you either learn to grow without having these product present in your final product or you will stand out as someone with unsafe product. This product is for our friends , family , lovers and other humans/aka buddahs ...lets keep it clean
Pesticide Testing

For the health and safety of our judges and our community, all entries in all flower, concentrate, tincture, and topical categories will undergo pesticide testing.
Testing detects pesticides using high performance liquid chromatography in conjunction with tandem mass spectrometry (LC/MS/MS.)
Your entry will be immediately disqualified if any of the following pesticides, fungicides, or plant-growth regulators are detected: acequinocyl, bifenazate, pyrethrium, daminozide, spirotetramat, fenoxycarb, paclobutrazol, spiromesifen, spinosad, abamectin, imidacloprid, or myclobutanil.

Microbiological Screening

For the health and safety of our judges and our community, all entries in all categories will undergo microbiological screening.
Testing detects yeasts, molds, bacteria, and fungi using 3M Petrifilm and other AOAC accepted plating methods.
Your entry will be immediately disqualified if:
Total Yeast and Mold > 100,000 colony-forming units per gram (cfu); or
Total Aerobic Plate Count > 10,00,000 cfu; or
Pseudomonas/Shigella > 10,000 cfu; or
Coliforms > 10,000 cfu; or
E. coli > 0 cfu; or
Salmonella > 0 cfu.

Residual Solvents Testing

For the health and safety of our judges and our community, all entries in all concentrate categories will undergo residual solvent testing.
Testing detects residual solvents using gas chromatography in conjunction with headspace sampling.
Your entry will be immediately disqualified if any of the following solvents are detected: neopentane, isopentane, ethanol, isobutane, n-pentane, cyclohexane, benzene, n-butane, 2-methylpentane, propane, methanol, n-heptane, n-hexane, 2,2-dimethylbutane, 3-methylpentane, or isopropanol.

 

[Weird]

Please keep in mind they only test for EXPECTED contaminants when you use agricultural products like eagle20 many of the companion chemicals aren't tested for because they are not expected.

I proved this point in this thread early on by calling testing centers and asking if they tested for specific chemicals (companion chems in eagle20 specifically) and they DONT

I called it a while ago boys sink or swim, sink or swim.

 

[Mikell]

Weird, you're better than us. You're the perfect human being. You have no ego, make no fault.

Happy now? Don't get butt hurt brah.

Do you tell your patients that you spray that stuff on them, if so I could care less. I doubt it...

Then why ask?

If one says "no offence intended" and follows up with a highly offensive statement, the previous caveat is moot. You've disqualified it.

Don't take this example literally.

I keep mothers and provide clones. Anyone that receives clones from me is informed of any treatments. No flower.

I also don't hide behind the word patients or medicine.


If your only intention was to learn, you wouldn't have posted. For scientific information regarding myclobutanil, there are many objective resources available. This forum is not one of them.

You're here to argue. There is nothing wrong with admitting this. I don't understand why you're pretending otherwise. As you said, this is a forum for learning. Through discussion and argument we learn together. But at the end of the day, forums are just a starting point and rife with misinformation.

You clearly don't use the chemical, so perhaps you could explain why you're googling information on it. I think it's safe to assume merely for the posts you have made here.

Answer that, and my question about the relevance of soil half lives to unrooted cuttings. I could care less if you can't find evidence to support your feelings.

While your at it, explain how much hydrogen cyanide and other chemicals are produced from the combustion of plants flowered from treated cuttings. Further, compare that information with the amount of hydrogen cyanide already produced by simply combusting cannabis.

You imply what I'm doing is dangerous, prove it. Or are you here to make false claims based on emotion? I can repost these questions as often as it takes.

Do you think the average poster here is naive enough to believe you're simply here to learn? Doesn't say much of your opinion of our intelligence.

Try not to crash google when you reply. And please link your sources a little more thoroughly.

 

[Weird]

I certainly have an ego my own faults I just don't use chems on weed but I certainly didn't make up the reality experienced at the emerald cup

Farmers cut it growing organically selling stuff for dollars a pound if that much, and this industry struggles with the concept at exponentially more?

lol

seriously

lol

sink or swim

 

[Mikell]

Ok.

 

[Weird]

glad your finally in agreement

 

[Mikell]

I'll mix up some zopliclone vanilla breezers and we can take this relationship to the next level. This whole love hate feeling is complex.

The last sentence wasn't malarkey.

On one side of town someone is blasting their Dukes of Hazard car horn.

Another truck in the distance is signalling his agreement with said jingle.

Now they're driving towards each other. Other trucks are honking in an ever tightening circle.

I'm going inside.

And I had the gall to cry off topic just an hour ago.

 

[frostqueen]

Please keep in mind they only test for EXPECTED contaminants when you use agricultural products like eagle20 many of the companion chemicals aren't tested for because they are not expected.

I proved this point in this thread early on by calling testing centers and asking if they tested for specific chemicals (companion chems in eagle20 specifically) and they DONT

I called it a while ago boys sink or swim, sink or swim.

GREAT. YAY. Did you, um, have an answer to my two questions? Does it continue to move in plant tissue? Or what are the ppms after 8 or 10 weeks? Can you contribute anything here other than hysteria and insults? I'm not really sure what your aim is in this thread other than to harass people who disagree with you.

 

[Weird]

If you had any idea how little work I put in and how fucked up the environment I grow in is you would know why I am so vehement about it

 

[frostqueen]

If you had any idea how little work I put in and how fucked up the environment I grow in is you would know why I am so vehement about it

View Image

Wow, that does look pretty unkempt. You need to get on that.

Personally I'm still going to consult the experts. One of the great things about legalization is that we can now shove this Bro science aside and start using lab tests and real science in making these decisions.

I do appreciate the links to that data on persistence; that's good information, and definitely a valid concern. More of that, less drama and garden pics, please.

 

[Weird]

Wow, that does look pretty unkempt. You need to get on that.

Personally I'm still going to consult the experts. One of the great things about legalization is that we can now shove this Bro science aside and start using lab tests and real science in making these decisions.

I do appreciate the links to that data on persistence; that's good information, and definitely a valid concern. More of that, less drama and garden pics, please.

Let me clarify the lack of intelligence that went into your thought process

0 chemical inputs equating to 0 chemicals in the output isn't bro science it is a simple product of critical thinking.

Showing interest in a turf product for use on pot FUCKING GENIUS

some people aren't smart enough to discern expertise

who was it that said there was a sucker born every minute?

I mentioned a small portion of the dangers from when this thread started, still waiting for the intellectual bar to be raised enough to drive it deeper into the rabbit hole.

Here is the most unbaised and recent review on the reality of what we know

http://www.coloradogreenlab.com/blo...ntext-of-cannabis-cultivation-and-consumption

Eagle 20 and Myclobutanil in the Context of Cannabis Cultivation and Consumption

5/14/2015
0 Comments


Overview
On March 23rd, several Denver-based marijuana grow operations were ordered to quarantine plants after it was determined they were treated with Eagle 20, a fungicidal pesticide (1). Myclobutanil-based fungicides, including Eagle 20, are applied to a wide range of edible agricultural products (grapes, apples, spinach, etc). When applied correctly, myclobutanil is known to have low toxicity to humans. Myclobutanil-based fungicides, including Eagle 20EW, are not currently approved for use in the United States on tobacco, the only (other than marijuana) smokable agricultural commodity. The toxicity and health effects of myclobutanil in the context of combustion/inhalation (versus ingestion) have not been assessed.

The following analysis summarizes some of the known chemical and physical properties of myclobutanil, and highlights the potential health implications of using this chemical on marijuana.

Mode of Action
Myclobutanil is the active ingredient in several brands of pesticides, including Eagle 20EW. Myclobutanil works by blocking a key enzyme involved in fungal cell membrane synthesis, leading to abnormal cell growth and eventual death of the fungal pathogen (2) Myclobutanil is a systemic fungicide, meaning it is absorbed at the site of application (ex. leaf) and distributed throughout the rest of the plant, thereby providing more comprehensive protection from fungal infection (2). As a systemic chemical, myclobutanil cannot be removed by washing treated crops, although residue will decrease in plant tissues over time. The final remaining residue levels vary considerably and are highly dependent on the rate of application, the time of last application before harvest, and how well the specific plant clears the chemical from its system.

Myclobutanil Tolerance Levels
The Environmental Protection Agency is responsible for regulating the pesticides used by growers to protect crops and for setting limits on the amount of pesticides that may remain in or on foods marketed in the USA. These limits on pesticides left on foods are called "tolerances" in the U.S (3).

The EPA establishes tolerances or each pesticide based on the potential risks to human health posed by that pesticide, using actual or estimated residue data, as well non-human toxicity studies, to reflect real-world exposure as closely as possible (3).

Tolerance levels for myclobutanil were established for exposure via inhalation, absorption through the skin during pesticide application to crops, and ingestion of agricultural commodities treated with myclobutanil. Myclobutanil absorbed by the most common route, dietary exposure, is metabolized by gut enzymes and the liver prior to entering the bloodstream (4,5). Myclobutanil absorbed via inhalation enters the bloodstream directly via the lungs.

I. The human health effects from the combustion and inhalation of myclobutanil have not been evaluated
Tolerance levels and toxicity studies for myclobutanil on edible products should not be used for evaluating the safety of myclobutanil on marijuana. Passage of pesticides into the bloodstream varies considerably between inhalation and ingestion routes of exposure, and the application of high temperature is known to alter the chemical composition of myclobutanil. Unfortunately, very little information is available to evaluate myclobutanil in the context of tobacco use, as Eagle 20 and myclobutanil-based fungicides are not approved for use on tobacco plants in the United States (6,7). Myclobutanil is approved for use on tobacco cultivated in China, however, and a 2012 study has demonstrated that 10% or more of the active pesticide remains on tobacco leaves up to 21 days after treatment, with residue present from 0.85 parts per million (ppm) up to 3.27 ppm (8). Using tobacco as a model for pesticide retention, it is probable a considerable amount of myclobutanil may remain present in cannabis weeks after fungicide application.

II. Inhalation of pyrolized myclobutanil residue could expose cannabis users to hydrogen cyanide
As noted on the Eagle 20 material safety data sheet(3), myclobutanil is stable at room temperature, but releases highly toxic gas if heated past its boiling point of 205°C (401°F) (3, 9). Disposable butane lighters, commonly used to ignite marijuana during consumption, produce temperatures in excess of 450°C.

Figure 1. Chemical structure of myclobutanil and decomposition products. Cyanide moiety indicated in red, chlorine indicated in green, and triazole moiety indicated in blue.

As shown in Figure 1 above, myclobutanil decomposes, its triazole (Figure 1, blue), cyanide (Figure 1, red) and chlorine (Figure 1, green) moieties are released and form toxic gases, including hydrogen cyanide (HCN) and hydrochloric gas (HCl). Of the three primary decomposition products formed, HCN holds the greatest concern. Chronic exposure to dilute hydrogen cyanide (ex. 0.008 parts per million) is not immediately deadly (10), but is known to cause serious neurological, respiratory, cardiovascular, and thyroid problems (11, 12, 13). Cannabis retaining even marginal amounts of myclobutanil (ex. 0.03 ppm) could potentially expose consumers to non-lethal, but clinically relevant levels of HCN.

III. Myclobutanil is co-extracted with cannabinoids during concentrate production
Studies of two other conazole fungicides, tebuconazole and propiconazole, have demonstrated that these chemicals are co-extracted during production of essential oils (14). Moreover, the process of extraction, treatment, and concentration can cause tebuconazole and propiconazole pesticide residue to accumulate at levels 250 times higher than the starting material (14). Myclobutanil is highly soluble in many of the solvents used in cannabinoid extraction (ex. ethanol, butane, and carbon dioxide)(15,16), and unquestionably co-extracts with cannabinoids during concentrate production. The process of removing residual solvent and increasing cannabinoid concentration very likely increases levels of myclobutanil, and other chemically-similar pesticides.

Conclusion
The Colorado Department of Agriculture has identified and published a list of "minimum risk pesticides" that pose little or no risk to human health (18) and are allowable for use on marijuana during cultivation. Eagle 20 (myclobutanil) is not on this list, but the absence of regulatory oversight has contributed to its widespread use in marijuana cultivation in Colorado.

Federal guidance is unlikely, given the legal status of marijuana. It falls on Colorado to build on the guidelines issued by the CDA to implement more stringent regulation, including pesticide residue testing, to prevent tainted product from reaching the open marketplace and consumers.

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

Do you tell your patients that you spray that stuff on them, if so I could care less. I doubt it...

I keep mothers and provide clones. Anyone that receives clones from me is informed of any treatments. No flower.

I also don't hide behind the word patients or medicine.

So that would be a no you dont tell people who consume your flowers?

If your only intention was to learn, you wouldn't have posted. For scientific information regarding myclobutanil, there are many objective resources available. This forum is not one of them.

You're here to argue. There is nothing wrong with admitting this. I don't understand why you're pretending otherwise. As you said, this is a forum for learning. Through discussion and argument we learn together. But at the end of the day, forums are just a starting point and rife with misinformation.

So lets recap your statement. Im not here to learn im here to argue but arguing =learning?

Through discussion and argument we learn together.

You clearly don't use the chemical, so perhaps you could explain why you're googling information on it. I think it's safe to assume merely for the posts you have made here.

Its okay I answer questions on the first time, I dont dodge them.

I am posting because the thread is titled " Can ANYONE name the poison Eagle 20 with the active ingredient Myclobutanil??"

I posted a metabolite of the fungicides active ingredient showing"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Developmental and reproductive effects have been noted for this compound"

So i asked if you are still comfortable with using it.
[/FONT]

Answer that, and my question about the relevance of soil half lives to unrooted cuttings. I could care less if you can't find evidence to support your feelings.

I already did answer your question about soil half life post number 322.

While your at it, explain how much hydrogen cyanide and other chemicals are produced from the combustion of plants flowered from treated cuttings. Further, compare that information with the amount of hydrogen cyanide already produced by simply combusting cannabis.

No 1 has that information, which is why there is so much debate on utilizing these products...

You imply what I'm doing is dangerous, prove it. Or are you here to make false claims based on emotion? I can repost these questions as often as it takes.

Your the person utilizing ornamental fungicides and advocating utilizing multiple insecticides without informing your consumer...

I tried to post what I thought could be a potential health risk from your "mis-application" of a restricted use fungicide, and asked if you were still comfortable applying it.

you responded with
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

I was very concerned about what to do in the event a fire breaks out or I mix up my cup of coffee with a bottle of fungicide.

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] You're currently trolling any thread that doesn't recommend freeze dried hippy tears as the go to pest control product.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]

Try not to crash google when you reply. And please link your sources a little more thoroughly.

What sources are you questioning I believe I linked them earlier.

 

[Mikell]

Thanks for posting some actual information Weird. I read that a few weeks ago and forgot to repost here.

Seasoned, I don't know what to say.

Slow down when you read.

I don't grow flower.

There is no consumer.

I have stated two or three times I use myclobutanil to treat incoming clones. These clones are grown out, recloned and mummed out.

Show me persistence of harmful levels of myclobutanil within plant tissue over a period of 180 days and you'll have my attention.

Posting soil half lives has no relevance to me. How you think it is related is beyond me.

Yes, arguing is part of the learning process. You claim you're "only here to learn". Again I ask, why are you learning about a fungicide you clearly have no interest in?

There's nothing wrong with arguing, until someone hides behind a thin guise as you have tried to. You're on a witch hunt. Anyone poking in your post history can see that.

You have presented nothing I have not already read. If you have something relevant, post it. I don't care about your feelings toward this or other products, I want facts.

Given your lack of knowledge on the subject, I doubt there is anything you could post I have not read at one time or another. But Google away friendo.

Don't put words in my mouth, I do not advocate using "multiple insecticides without informing the consumer".

Pray tell, who is this consumer? Other growers who I have informed of treatments? What are these other chemicals I am advocating the use of? No less, you accuse me of hiding the fact.

Can we stick to the facts and leave fiction to the penny pages?

One more time for clarity.

I don't grow flower. I don't treat my own clones. I inform other growers of any products I have used no matter the length of time post treatment, or the succession of clones/mums.

Want to keep doing this? You haven't a leg to stand on. You think this is the first time I've been confronted by a chicken little? I am well acquainted with your type.

 

[Mikell]

Oh, and by the by, when was myclobutanil reclassified as ornamental only?

Thousands of table/wine grape, strawberry, etc, growers would find that surprising.