Can ANYONE name the poison Eagle 20 with the active ingredient Myclobutanil??

[Yes4Prop215]

IMO running eagle on new clones coming in of new genetics to become mothers and all plants becoming mothers might be an allowable use (might not in the eyes of the state tho).

pretty sure its normal and allowed, the CO news articles state that certain plants that were quarantined were returned back to the grows when deemed safe, probably out of the 60-90 day window. not sure what their exact numbers were, but growers who are getting 90 day stuff tested with zero detectable residuals are probably gonna implement it into their regimens.

if i found out herb i had smoked was sprayed at week 4 flower with eagle20 i would fucking sue those legal grows too. what kind of dumb ass "master growers" are these places hire that would even allow that to happen.

 

[Granger2]

I agree, but I don't have a problem with using chems on quarantined clones. After that I do have a problem with something that makes Hydrogen cyanide when burned, even in small amounts. -granger

 

[Polygon]

^^^ Agree'd. My tests on the throw-away plant sprayed @ 14 days in flower will be ready in about 3 weeks. I'll post the numbers to see exactly what can be expected of detrimental practices with Myclobutanil and Abamectin in particular.

I'm not trying to promote these things being used, once again. As we can see, there is a definite risk when it comes to applying these to a plant late in its life cycle, pyrolyzing anything into hydrogen cyanide is insane. But, I do think it'll be interesting to see the PPM on the flower and gain some data as to the degradation curve of the active dose applied when a plant is way too far along to apply such systemics and trans-laminar miticides, IMO. With my time and $, I find it worth it to contribute to the pool of data available for cannabis when it comes to questionable IPM practices. This debate has gone on waaaaayyy to long without results on either end and this topic never gets discussed correctly when it's a HUGE issue facing the industry that is blossoming in legal/medical cannabis.

Concerning the post in the last page - yeah, if you have an environment that is dialed in and are growing healthy plants with none of them ever showing PM, then you're doing well. But I guarantee that if you put an infected plant into a veg-room, no matter how well you applied organic IPM, how healthy your plant(s) are, and/or how well your room is dialed in, you will see the PM spread. So while I may be defending some things, please don't think this is my way of being a lazy grower. I didn't attain a BS in organic chemistry and get my job(s) without knowing what I was doing. I'm just trying to make a point and offer some math and data from my sources along with studies done elsewhere concerning the material at hand and eventually -- from this 14 day of flower plant that was sprayed.

Thanks everyone for keeping this civil. It's nice when discussion can go on in the realm of canna-forums without name-calling and insulting of character for bringing up differing opinions - it's how men hash things out and I appreciate it on here. One of the reasons I never posted for years is because of how many assholes lurk on canna-forums with their own agenda and disregard for other ideas. I don't have the time to argue with people who don't have an education to back their points and result to the 8th grade level of 'how to win at arguing and stuff'. This whole conundrum should be in testing by some bigger farms just to experiment and put out results, but having worked and currently working in one, it isn't allowed and nobody wants to risk pushing these things past the available bro-science and anti-chemistry-knowledge folks.

 

[Weird]

I gave you both negative rep because you simply deserved it, 1 of you for misrepresenting my argument and 1 for supporting it as if it where truth (I thought I was on ignore lol), read the whole of the thread, all of it. List the totality of my objections and research. Your arguments and logic don't hold water, your practices are simply unacceptable.

There are people who grow organically, successfully in every cultivar and in every region. Plant health and environment are two factors but due diligence in learning how to grow organically is the third.

If you can spend the time arguing about doing the wrong thing on the internet you can spend the time to educate yourself.

If you think this is insulting imagine how I feel. I spent decades risking everything to keep this plant in people's lives because I recognized it's value, only to have a wave of people looking for easy money lower the bar and add a negative stigma to the image of the marijuana cultivator. All because they don't have the integrity to do it right, and then they spend time on the web defending grossly improper techniques and say shit like "instead of tearing my hair out"

Listen, if the stress of educating yourself to do it right is too great to keep you from using eagle20, you seriously lack integrity.

If I was in a place where I needed to poison my weeds to get them to grow I sure as shit wouldn't be bragging about it on the web, I would be busy learning to grow properly, especially while the margins can still support the education.

I have a real problem with humans being scumbags to each other for the sake of a buck, I left other industries because of this dynamic and promised myself never again. I don't give a fuck about reputation, I don't give a fuck about popularity, I don't care for people who embrace narcissism at the expense of others.

What I care about is living in a world where people not only understand the reality of our full potential but actually work towards that end. If you don't and are part of this community expect me to make you aware of it.

 

[Weird]

Post your testing facilities and all the fungicides and pesticides you use and I will do the due diligence to see if they even test for all of the chemicals in them.

They don't test for all agricultural chemicals in existence, including the cancer causing agents in turf products that are not used in standard food grade crops.

Ignorance is a choice.

 

[Polygon]

You keep coming back to attack my integrity... I've outlined the only times we use these chemicals and most everyone besides you agrees that it is not a hazardous practice if done correctly. If you fail to see the math or recognize the measures we take to assure safety, including testing, that's on you, but quit with the little personal jabs - they don't really do much to further your point.

You spent time growing cannabis for people illegally without pesticides - congrats. But, you are aware this is an international cannabis enthusiast forum, right? It's kind of a 'no shit' when it comes to pretty much any of us that have been growing or posting about growing, so that high-horse is a little moot, although noble. Your integrity is unmatched, ect. -- we get it.

You also keep coming back to 'learn to grow properly'... But, as I've defined and addressed multiple times in the last two pages of the thread, the pesticides are only used on incoming genetics to insure they have no dormant problems if sourced from questionable sources, and never even flowered for over 100+ days after application at minimum. It's never applied to any seed plants grown in the environment, or plants our staff brought in personally because it never has to be. The horror stories of people going into large-scale, sourcing clones from approved sources and getting PM in perfectly dialed rooms because of an infected cut are all too real and not something that my bosses and I to be considered an option. So I don't really see your point there and you keep dodging those facts to support your point to slander my knowledge of plant health or environmental standards, even though our growing methods are very, very similar from what I've seen from you... What about my knowledge presented to you makes you think that I'm in dire need of more education?

Call Steep Hill in Tukwila, WA - they are the main one we use and the one I trust most after speaking multiple times with their lab technicians. They will not give you a full list over the phone (which is weird), but I can tell you, they test for everything in Avid or Eagle 20 in the 30 or so they do test for. Hopefully they will let you know that if you ask for the specific chemicals you're most concerned about, they seem to be a little better about it if you ask for specifics - just to help ya out there. I'm sure something will not be to your liking and you'll come back with something to say, discrediting them or their process. But I'd like to see you take that up with their lab guys at that point if that's the case.

Notice you've posted nothing of substance since giving negative rep for a simple disagreement... I'm not misconstruing any of your empirical 'evidence' or opinions earlier in this thread, I'm challenging them. By doing so, I've stepped on your tail and now you're showing your colors by repeatedly attacking my character to dodge actually refuting my points and addressing me head-on for what I actually have to say.

So again - I ask you to actually refute my points and not attack my supposed character when you're presented with an debate, like the stoic elderly man you're supposed to be. Calling me ignorant and assuming I use pesticides on every living thing in our facility at all times to make up for may lack of knowledge is getting old. How is the technique I've described 'grossly improper'? I want you to actually define your position using scientific fact(s) aside from listing MSDS and animal toxicology study info related to LD50's and insane exposure for limit testing.

EXAMPLE - If I start with x amount of u, y, and z chemicals and follow certain guidelines pertaining to degradation of the chemicals after the half-life time based on evidence in published scientific studies and come up with negative tests from a lab that specifically tests for those chemicals, how am I poisoning people?

Also, to be clear, I don't have a problem with you, Weird. I agree with you on many other points I've seen you make in other realms of this forum. I've commended you for not using these products and never have tried to attack your character, so I'd ask you for the same respect instead of the broken-record treatment. Notice I haven't gone all petty and negative repped you or anything for having a different opinion.

I bet this like all my posts directed towards you falls on deaf ears and you'll insult me again for no reason other than to further your (so-far) purely emotional diatribe against me. I can't wait...

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i quit using abamectic at all back in 2010 when some plants i sprayed in veg/early flower still had trace amounts in the test. if a plant is in such a bad mite infestion that one needs to break out avid, then you might as well be throwing that plant out.

 

[DunnDunn]

Will I be ok if I use eagle 20 a week into flowering? Theres 7 weeks left of flowering.

 

[Mikell]

Ok as in not dead? Yeah. Ok as in no residual? Nope.

Myclobutanil doesn't have an obscene halflife for initial breakdown but total takes substantially longer.

I'd look to environment for the cause.

 

[Weird]

remember Mikell all those trials were done outdoors in open earth, dissipation indoors will not be the same. It can't dissipate into a water table or evaporate into an open atmosphere.

 

[Mikell]

True enough, though organic growers will be happy to know their microbe rich soil quickly (comparatively speaking) breaks down run off residue.

I had a hard time writing that while laughing at the same time.

I've no issue using it to sanitize incoming cuts. No medium, limited foliage mitigate any concerns I have.

There isn't enough information to feel safe using it otherwise, beyond the one study on tobacco from China.

Here's hoping that shyster at Livewell gets his comeuppance, for knowingly using it during flower and lying through his ball hair cleaning teeth after the fact.

 

[frostqueen]

^^^ Agree'd. My tests on the throw-away plant sprayed @ 14 days in flower will be ready in about 3 weeks. I'll post the numbers to see exactly what can be expected of detrimental practices with Myclobutanil and Abamectin in particular.

Well, it's been 2 months. What were the numbers?

 

[DunnDunn]

True enough, though organic growers will be happy to know their microbe rich soil quickly (comparatively speaking) breaks down run off residue.

I had a hard time writing that while laughing at the same time.

I've no issue using it to sanitize incoming cuts. No medium, limited foliage mitigate any concerns I have.

There isn't enough information to feel safe using it otherwise, beyond the one study on tobacco from China.

Here's hoping that shyster at Livewell gets his comeuppance, for knowingly using it during flower and lying through his ball hair cleaning teeth after the fact.

I'm organic here also. I sprayed when lights went off yesterday. 2 ml to a gallon. I was feeling bad about using eagle 20 and having it drip into my no till pots. Thanks for the reassurance. If only I listened and used eagle 20 earlier I would've saved myself 2 very needed crops. All this peroxide, milk, green cure, high ph, pm wash blah blah blah didnt work, but eagle 20 showed PM who daddy is. Been a few years without using eagle 20, they're back now. Luckily for me, I still have a bottle of eagle 20 and I caught it at 12 days in. It should be out of the plant in 40 days? I might defoliate heavy or prolong flowering somehow if need be. I'm going to be smoking this stuff myself. I did read somewhere that even if there is still eagle 20 present, its a very very small amount that wouldn't amount to much and that a cigarette would be worse. Not sure how true that is.

 

[Weird]

if you needed eagle20 there is a leak in your organic game and no one I know who takes the effort to do a real no til would even consider in 1000 years to touch it

nice try

nice throw away account

 

[Mikell]

Ladies, ladies, please, there is no need to worry.

I have more than enough sand for all of your vaginas.

 

[DunnDunn]

if you needed eagle20 there is a leak in your organic game and no one I know who takes the effort to do a real no til would even consider in 1000 years to touch it

nice try

nice throw away account

You feel all better now?

 

[DunnDunn]

Ladies, ladies, please, there is no need to worry.

I have more than enough sand for all of your vaginas.

Ouch

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

It should be out of the plant in 40 days? I might defoliate heavy or prolong flowering somehow if need be. I'm going to be smoking this stuff myself.

http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehipm/pdf_fung/fung_actives/myclobutanil.pdf

half-life on that product

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

I've no issue using it to sanitize incoming cuts. No medium, limited foliage mitigate any concerns I have.

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mpBRS003.pdf

"Myclobutanil is moderately persistent with a half-life > 365 days and moderately mobile in soil"

http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehipm/pdf_fung/fung_actives/myclobutanil.pdf

Aerobic Half-life (days) 251

still have no concerns? genuine question no bully

 

[Tripsick]

What ever happened to the test? Results not what you expected?