Breeding ethics

[ahortator]

Breeding ethics!!!

Do such thing exist? I really doubt it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYcZufIseNk

Is someone willing to give the thanks to this farmer from Narakakanam in Kerala for preserving his ganja genetics? His name is Tungapan.

 

[lamenamenumbers]

Mongo only pawn in game of life!

That Blazing Saddles quote just made my morning, thanks.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Breeding ethics!!!



Is someone willing to give the thanks to this farmer from Narakakanam in Kerala for preserving his ganja genetics? His name is Tungapan.
View Image

Yes. Give thanks everyday!

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I can say that my opinions on the ethics of breeding have changed dramatically since the mid 70's. I wish I knew then what I know now. Back then, I thought I needed to guard my genetics in the hopes of making profit in the future. Now, I know that spreading them around is the surest way for me to preserve them. Recently, my daughter met a grower in a bar in Pennsylvania who by chance turned out to be breeding CB and offered me seeds. I consider that proof that Maryjane is looking out for us!

Here's Mr. Greengenes' cliff notes on breeding; Breeding is a skill that develops over years and years. Goals need to be set and maintained over generations, which takes focus and self discipline. Observation of traits, using your eyes, touch and smell is your main tool. By working with strains over many generations, your ability to memorize traits gets better. That in turn, increases the total number of traits you observe. Observing and selecting for many traits at once results in bigger changes in fewer generations.

When a breeder gets used to seeing those kinds of changes over generations, they tend to start thinking of their work more as a result of those skills than the ingredients that went into it. That naturally results in them feeling more open about their ingredients. They begin to see the genetics as artists paint. Colors to be mixed and applied to the canvas.

Personally, I think it's silly to keep secrets about how I mix paints. I could show you everything, and you'd still paint a different picture. If you're a dedicated breeder, you'll paint a very different picture, and I'm certainly going to be interested to see it!


I'm always flattered when other breeders want to remix my stuff. I wouldn't care if they don't ask permission. I think it's always nice to correspond though, and it could be useful too.

On a last note, I've always been well known as a sort of johnny pot seed guy, giving free genetics far and wide. But, I've also learned that people value things more if they pay for them. So, I basically don't criticize anyone who sells seeds as long as they are trustworthy and truthful. I think breeding cannabis is a noble pursuit, and I really don't think there's any such thing as irresponsible breeding even for casual growers.

 

[Cannavore]

such a long thread for a nonexistent concept in today's game lol


everything is fucked. people buying two packs of seeds from Attitude, crossing them together, and selling them for more than the price of each pack they bought to make the seeds with.

no one tests their progeny any more

there are no closely held cuts any more

its the wild west... i love it lol this is what an unregulated market looks like.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I would think to have someone use your seeds or clones to create something new and or better would be a compliment. But to simply copy or change the name of something already being produced is just shady, but exactly the kinda shady people have always been.

I know when I hear about a new strain or clone I go right to researching it parents and grandparents. Depending on what I learn I make my purchases based on where the magic most likely can be found for me to work with.

I will not name names but working at a grow store in Clio I met a somewhat popular breeder (chucker). I wanted to try some of his work and tried to discuss pheno selection. He said I would find winners in every pack. I again asked, what about the truly exceptional plants, how many packs should I buy to find the best possible pheno. Again, this time getting aggrevated he said he never has to start more than a pack of seeds to find a keeper.

I did not buy any and kinda laughed at him. Later a buddy bought 2 packs of a strawberry cough backcross and not a single seed split would germinate.

This is bad breeding ethics. He has a long list of seeds and clone onlys and seems he honestly has not a clue was any of them look like grown in a large population.

Lol. I heard he went out of business and will be renaming his company.

 

[Sport Farmer]

People and their fragile egos... I don't think ethics belongs in the world of breeding plants. Humans didn't create weed, they just manipulated it for their own personal reasons. To pat yourself on the back for taking A and B and crossing it together and whatever process beyond that, is just pure ego stroking at it's finest. The plant is doing all the work and you're just along for the ride. The very essence of all the things people breed for was already infused in the plant or we wouldn't be here today. Some people before you and I were just good at isolating desired traits, so now that means they should "own" the DNA inside because of it?? That's ridiculous. Everyone started with someone else's work... period.

Funny thing though, humans love to stake claim on anything they've invested time and energy into. But anyone trying to stake claim on life itself no matter what genes that may be needs to seriously re-evaluate their belief systems. You don't own life and creation. All these seed companies called "Joe Blow genetics" just makes me cringe every time I see it... As if they had anything to do with the actual DNA of the plant.

So yeah, obviously I'm not down with it. I'm about sharing and caring, and things that are for the greater good of all. Not some random dudes wallet and ego getting shattered...

If it's not good for the all, then it's not good.

 

[willydread]

Breeding ethics!!!

Do such thing exist? I really doubt it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYcZufIseNk

Is someone willing to give the thanks to this farmer from Narakakanam in Kerala for preserving his ganja genetics? His name is Tungapan.
View Image

God bless Tungapan,everyday!
Ethic... i think we must give credit to the breeder who created / selected the strain, there is his work, his sweat, his ideas...
some examples: I am currently carrying out some crossings made using strain of ace, cbg and gifts of friends,if I had to give up these seeds I should honestly mention them,but,after some year of selection this strain is my thing...
Another example:if i work with Neville haze for many year, it's no longer what Neville wanted, but it's still his stuff, so I should call it Neville haze f?(willydread selection).
legal or not,i think we need respect & honesty,if we don't wanna be just a criminal....

 

[CaptainDankness]

Whilst I agree with the notion of this, it does not hold true, If we looked at SamS for example his work/plants have been ripped off more than anyone, For me he did the work therefore he should be respected/acknowledged (and dare I say it paid!!).
The same as if someone has a clone from their work and they give instructions not to pass out, this should be respected.. even if your mate has the said cut and won't give it to you.. Respect them and the originator.

I presume your open policy is a sharing of genetics with no $$ gain? there's profiteers all over the show it would seem in life esp in cannabis seed production after all we have met most of them on these boards and no doubt will again.

Sam made a few hybrids nothing more. If Sam should be paid he should also pay the original breeders of the Afghan, Mexican and Columbian landraces he combined for Skunk #1.

They did a lot more work than Sam some of them landraces probably have hundreds of years of work in them all kept in the family. Then Sam (stole) their work.



I believe Nevil and all did the same as Sam would have.

 

[Dog Star]

Yard Dog is another Sams character... come on light Yard Dog,show yourself you old
demon... thats why you crying,cause of Sam Skunkman... you lowlife,kind of human
cucaracha...filth of a Earth...ego supporter..devil worshiper..just bringing more misery
to folks that already suffered enough.. tricky deciver you are..


after WW3 there will stay rats,cucaraches and Yard Dog,Rez Dog as their masters...

 

[Water-]

cmg seeds

 

[Dog Star]

To this day CMG seeds didnt made a dime in Cannabis industry... while CMG was
spend his own resources,shared shitload seeds and cuts around...

CMG are anti-breeder project if we look commercial breeders... anti ego project... right now i come from postal office,sended to people seeds for free... even those that i paid for i share around.. but i send only to good people,idiots dont need to contact me..

dont worry for CMG,we are too powerfull and have power to exchange stuff around self..
cause we dont play for egoism but opposite.. stuff that you dont expect nor you learned
self ever.

Main thing we work in present time.. we are son of a moment,
centered in God that is our biggest support and mercy,thanks only to our Lord YHWH.


YHWH is mine only King... i dont have other kings nor i pray to other Gods..
sharing further his creation and enjoying released from mine own ego is a
good enough for me..


Those ones seeds sended to Seedbay or seed funds i never get one nickel..
no body can call me money grabber... if you dont belive me check this stuff
with Gypsy or somewanne that cares about Seedbay shop..

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Dog Star is right by what he says about donating seed stock. I've not seen him ask for a dime in all the time he's been about.

Some breeders are like that...they just want to share, others want to make some dosh. However its done it helps to propagate the industry.

 

[Yard dog]

Yard Dog is another Sams character... come on light Yard Dog,show yourself you old
demon... thats why you crying,cause of Sam Skunkman... you lowlife,kind of human
cucaracha...filth of a Earth...ego supporter..devil worshiper..just bringing more misery
to folks that already suffered enough.. tricky deciver you are..


after WW3 there will stay rats,cucaraches and Yard Dog,Rez Dog as their masters...

You don't know me yet you have made decisions about me! You are being judgemental.. For what?
I took a piece of your post about fem seeds and called bullshit on it, since then you have called me a troll, evil and fucks knows what.. Yet CMG holds itself to a higher degree or some shit.
I'm not here promoting myself as some higher power as I'm comfy in my skin, all that is coming from you is you seem to think you are better for using reg seeds or some shit.
I don't know you, I've made no personal attacks, I've attacked a post! If you ask me its you who is ego driven promoting how "good" you are etc..

 

[Yard dog]

Dog Star is right by what he says about donating seed stock. I've not seen him ask for a dime in all the time he's been about.

Some breeders are like that...they just want to share, others want to make some dosh. However its done it helps to propagate the industry.

I asked him, I didn't accuse him. I've given seeds away as most of us have, I'm just not high and migh ty about it.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Jeez...this is getting heavy.....going all 'Voo-Doo' on us..

The passion runs deep on this eh?


...Can we eh quit this little skirmish and get back on topic gentlemen?

 

[Dog Star]

No probs for me... right now i smoke some preliminar of Syrius Mayhem that i made..

good smoke,feeling couchlocky relaxed..


am glued with this buds,its still not a dry...

What did you breed Yard Dog???

 

[Yard dog]

^ what does it matter what I've bred? I'm not after a cock rub! I find that egotistical, do you want some applauses or something? Not once have you countered about the evils of fem seeds, for a god lover you seem like a person full of hate.

(just for you some buds from plants I bred, not sure what that proves though!)

 

[Gert Lush]

such a long thread for a nonexistent concept in today's game lol


everything is fucked. people buying two packs of seeds from Attitude, crossing them together, and selling them for more than the price of each pack they bought to make the seeds with.

no one tests their progeny any more

there are no closely held cuts any more

its the wild west... i love it lol this is what an unregulated market looks like.

While I agree with most of what you say, and I love it, too, this is NOT what an unregulated market looks like!
This is what a highly regulated, skewed and generally fukced-up market looks like.

Consider a situation where cannabis is completely free - free as in lettuce or nettles - the true unregulated market. Who on earth would bother being a breeder? Very, very few, who are probably born to it, and also have the requisite resources. Some freaks might, privately, keep a pet strain or two evolving. But why bother if you could get seeds from anywhere in the world for little more than the cost of postage? Even more to the point, weed from anywhere in the world at reasonable prices, too!

Now, AFTER full legalisation, a few might gravitate towards making truly medical, specialised strains. Cool. But it will be a niche market. Standards likely to be very high, because ONCE weed is completely unregulated THEN only can you start truly regulating the quality. Not before, there will always be bullshit and attempts to make commercial coup d' etats, by exploiting the illegality.

In short, I don't think we can speak about ethics in breeding, until we actually have breeding. Which we don't, not really. (Some attempts starting feebly now at last - where people can grow populations and have selection).

So for the minute we can only speak about ethics between people involved in the cannabis merry-go-round. Interpersonal ethics. And fair enough, on the whole, those are often sadly lacking. Why should that be any different from any other business scene? Except that illegality makes it much worse.

Notice that no-one has ever talked about the ethics of breeding carrots or roses, well not till GMO hit the scene, anyway

 

[djonkoman]

Notice that no-one has ever talked about the ethics of breeding carrots or roses, well not till GMO hit the scene, anyway

actually, there's plenty of this stuff with legal crops too.
but they have upov(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Union_for_the_Protection_of_New_Varieties_of_Plants) , and whenever there's a dispute they can just go to court and let the judge settle it.
but still, plenty of disputes in legal breeding too.
but with weed, since it's illegal, there are no universal rules, and even if we came up with them here, there wouldn't be any enforcement. so you get the wild west.

btw, with legal crops you don't have to ask a breeder to use their variety, as long as you're making something new and not just copying:

There are explicit exceptions to the rights of the breeder, known as the "breeder's exemption clause", that make it unnecessary to receive authorization for the use of a protected variety where those rights interfere in the use of the variety for a private individual's non-monetary benefit, or the use of the variety for further research. For example, the breeder's rights do not cover the use of the variety for subsistence farming, though they do cover the use of the variety for cash crop farming. Additionally, the breeder's authorization is not required to use a protected variety for experimental purposes, or for breeding other varieties, as long as the new varieties are not "essentially derivative" of the protected variety.