Breeding ethics

[Gert Lush]

actually, there's plenty of this stuff with legal crops too.
but they have upov(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Union_for_the_Protection_of_New_Varieties_of_Plants) , and whenever there's a dispute they can just go to court and let the judge settle it.

Hm, I didn't realise that, djonkoman, thanks for the correction.

No doubt such disputes will arise wherever there's moolah involved, though.
So perhaps in some future cannabis market, if someone developed a strain that really worked, say, for arthritis (random example), then I could see they might want a patent of some sort, if their purpose was to make money.

Wouldn't affect 99%+ of us though (well, not unless nothing else worked for arthritis).
Who would really go to an expensive medical dispensary if weed were totally free?

 

[Maple_Flail]

Well that escalated quickly..

I think it kind of proves, that what people mean when they say a breeders ethics is, what kind of person they really are. I'm not throwing shade at anyone here, not pointing fingers, not siding.

for example a breeder to me, by default is a rather umbrella term that covers a lot of ground. Call it pollen chucking or whatever, some semblance of selection needs to be done. I would hazard to guess that the mass of whats assumed to be "breeders" are the ones being downed in this thread, the ones out for profit irregardless of situation.

however painting everyone with this kinda paint is just flat out wrong, I wouldn't be too surprised if this group of Breeders that is causing the issues is just the very vocal minority. as the real breeders are prolly to busy working to care about promoting a farce.

Not every breeder is even releasing stuff, they might not be breeding for anyone else then them and their family. In that situation why would anyone else get it unless that grewer knew that someone could benefit from it.

In the next 10 years I can only assume, old school breeders with chops are gonna come out of hiding. maybe when the global prohibition is totally rescinded , maybe sooner maybe later.

These people will want to pass on what they have before they retire.

 

[willydread]

In the next 10 years I can only assume, old school breeders with chops are gonna come out of hiding. maybe when the global prohibition is totally rescinded , maybe sooner maybe later.

These people will want to pass on what they have before they retire.

We hope it,
The old strains,and the old landraces,should be preserved, they are the foundations of today's cannabis world...

 

[weewuu]

I pollen chuck what I want to grow. Breeding is working a line back numerous times, but the problem is the people who buy seeds want the latest hype strain or cross versus a F12 dj short blueberry.
I actually try to reach out to whoever's work I have used and offer seeds from whatever I made with it.

 

[maliali]

Breeding is just our choice or our preference. What we want and what we dont want we breed every day in our life every thing. Breeding is all about our selection and selection is all about preferences we have. Every thing is breeding in life we select our food,our womens,our cars....etc on our preferences. All in all if sam select 1 plant that we call Haze or ingmars widow...etc we know that breed becouse it was better than most breeds,what does it mean better thats mean that that plant(haze,widow,OG...)fits description of many as good preference in some plant. So people know that plant some people want that high of that plant and smell but lover flowering and they mix with something what they think that it will add they preferences to that plant. No one is breeder we just have our own ways if we take music for examples. Making song is breeding crossing in canna breeding when breeding ends we have one plant with our required traits. So that is one song. Some one have tastes of many and many like that like beatles,rolling stones...some dont like. Like some under ground music which is not listen by masses. No breeds better it is all about preferences plants dont know what we want,we must tell them our language is breeding and they just show results. Corn what is today is not close what it was at first we made corn in way of our required traits. We select everithing in our life so we do with cannabis when we plant 10 seeds we smoke the most of pheno we like the best. ALL IS ONE. Why before we have better breeders than now becouse today every one can breed and before just few. what few have is rear what masses have is cheap it is economy boiz in our mind. Today elites are loosing their prestige becouse if u want OG cut good breeder room and time and u will find it about in 100 days. First breeders have thougher work with all landraces, hermies and shit. That all my word on this. PEACE & LOVE

 

[Guy Brush]

What's wrong with you??? All the time you talk about how nice a person you are, yet your talk is full of hate against people who didn't do anything but having a different opinion on a relatively unimportant matter. Please stop waging war here you bloody peacemaker...just can't stand this bullshit anymore...

To this day CMG seeds didnt made a dime in Cannabis industry...
while CMG was
spend his own resources,shared shitload seeds and cuts around...

CMG are anti-breeder project if we look commercial breeders... anti ego project... right now i come from postal office,sended to people seeds for free... even those that i paid for i share around.. but i send only to good people,idiots dont need to contact me..

dont worry for CMG,we are too powerfull and have power to exchange stuff around self..
cause we dont play for egoism but opposite.. stuff that you dont expect nor you learned
self ever.

Main thing we work in present time.. we are son of a moment,
centered in God that is our biggest support and mercy,thanks only to our Lord YHWH.


YHWH is mine only King... i dont have other kings nor i pray to other Gods..
sharing further his creation and enjoying released from mine own ego is a
good enough for me..


Those ones seeds sended to Seedbay or seed funds i never get one nickel..
no body can call me money grabber... if you dont belive me check this stuff
with Gypsy or somewanne that cares about Seedbay shop..

 

[Hammerhead]

Even if u get permission from another breeder to use something of there's u better get that shit in writing. You can bet there memory can change what they think was said.. If u don't have that permission in writing they can call u a liar and try to drag ur good name through the mud. Cover ur ass guys.. Everything I make is tested. I tried to short cut that when I let out 10 packs of Cbanana s1. I should have known better. Never done that before. I refunded many or sent care packages to others. I stand behind my work 100% weather its fem or reg seeds. There's a market for both. Some of the best clone only came from FEM seeds. I rarely take in personal cuts. If I do I make sure I can work with it or I don't take it in. If I buy seeds I can do whatever I wish with those seeds. Trying to Put restrictions on seeds is lame it ain't gonna happen. Those that think they can are in the wrong business. Every breeder has used someones seeds in there gear at some point.

 

[Tonygreen]

For me breeding is a labor of love. All of my stuff has come from amazing gifts that people have given me out of friendship and kindness. As such I've tried to be a good steward of those gifts and reciprocate to the universe as best I can.
No surprise those gifts given in pureness have created great lines.
Greed causes conflict. Love begets love.

 

[different]

I say a big thanks is in order to the OG breeder, Mother Nature.
All the breeders stole from her and gave no credit.
Everyone else is just a hack.

 

[Americangrower]

This asking breeder crap is ridiculous, if you pay for seeds they are yours to do with however you wish. You think any of the old breeders Soma, Nev, Sag, whoever asked to use NL, Skunk,Haze, etc .. I think not, they just did their best to copy it or even improve it.

 

[Dog Star]

What's wrong with you??? All the time you talk about how nice a person you are, yet your talk is full of hate against people who didn't do anything but having a different opinion on a relatively unimportant matter. Please stop waging war here you bloody peacemaker...just can't stand this bullshit anymore...

LOL... you need to stop smoke crack and turn yourself to weed...


You right.. i wage war with free seeds... if only more
of this kind of martyrs walk around... everybody will have everything for free and no one will miss anything..

how egoistic is that...!?

 

[Abja Roots]

There's no hard and fast rules anymore. There may have been some back in the day, but there were still shenanigans.

I think what's changed the most these days is how easy it is for people to get "elite cuts" and other peoples seeds from all over the world. Tons of seed banks(from great to terrible) that take easy online payment. So it's easy for someone from the mid-west(or wherever) to get cuts and breeding stock from across the country. Then pop up and distribute seeds via easy social media marketing. We've never seen anything like this time before. All of those factors coming together has changed everything.

There's people who bought a pack of seeds. They then found a male in that and hit it to all kinds of things and added the traditional tag (i.e breath, shoes, cookies, etc...) and started selling them online. I can't say that you might not find something nice in them, but it's not the type of work I would do. Selling F2's of a current F1 variety is par for the course today as well.

It's no different than the rest of the world. Some people are standup and operate with honesty/integrity. There are other's that don't. It's not like we're all in some guild with common rules and consequences for breaking them. Seems to be a free for all out there. Even though I never intended for certain work to get out, I am happy to see people growing it when I see it in the crosses. It's a reminder of the work my friends and I did years ago.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

This asking breeder crap is ridiculous, if you pay for seeds they are yours to do with however you wish. You think any of the old breeders Soma, Nev, Sag, whoever asked to use NL, Skunk,Haze, etc .. I think not, they just did their best to copy it or even improve it.

Nevil said he paid plenty for many seeds, from Sam. Most didn't sprout. Once Nevil sold the genes, they are not his, same as Sam.


I allowed Hammer to have my OGM clone to work with, free of charge. He followed my instructions, but I think one person did not.

Hammer shared a special strain with me in seed form, free of charge. I followed his request, and no one else has that cross.


It is about respect, and decency. Once he or I sell the seeds, that's a different story.


If someone passes a clone you made, after agreeing to abide by rules, then they are guilty, and deserve every bit of bad Karma that comes their way, and maybe a sock in the face too


End of rant

 

[Shmavis]

Reading this thread reminded me of a post from Chimera:

Yes of course you are free to use these to do any of your own work. I have no problem with people making hybrids, the only thing that really I object to is making copies of inbreds simple F2 generations and then listing those along side by donating them to SB or the like.

If you want to actually put some real work into developing your own line, and do some real inbreeding where you grow a bunch of the originals and do some real work selecting within the line for a few generations, than have at it. To me this is more more acceptable then simply taking 1-2 plants from a 10 pack and mating them together, to then be sold on the same shelves... that grinds my gears a little - but if you want to actually put in some work and do some real breeding, who am I to say no? I support anybody that wants to put any actual breeding work in, once the genes are out there, they are fair game afaic. Part of the point of releasing say the Bubba cross, is so people can use those as a start of a backcross program to the Bubba- these simplify the work as you already have positive pollen inputs to stat the backcross line. Heck I'd probably trade you for some of those also, just to have them in the library- I save you a generation on the F1, you save me a generation on the backcross. Seems fair.

Have fun and use them to make something great or better than the originals, and if you are doing something positive for Cannabis and not just your pocketbook, I'm stoked.
Sound fair?

Rereading it; I think:

 

[JohnnyChicago]

CMG are anti-breeder project if we look commercial breeders... anti ego project... right now i come from postal office,sended to people seeds for free... even those that i paid for i share around.. but i send only to good people,idiots dont need to contact me..

You are the anti-ego project and the rest of the world are idiots...

 

[Dog Star]

No the rest of the World... there is Yard Dog,Gey Brush and Johnny Chicago from
idiotic part of community.. idiots have a specific name..

the rest of a World are cool with me..

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Breeding cannabis can have a spectrum from random/un-planned pollinations to full on professional, well-funded established breeding projects that have been in place for decades, producing only F1 hybrids for sale......and everything else in between.

What is the more ethical way to make seed?...

Some (few) breeders take much time and effort working with breeding the plant into something unique/stable or at least different and distinguishable. This takes much time and skill growing out large numbers for selections and many generations of plants to be able to get anywhere near producing a distinctly new/true and unusual cultivar.

Many other breeders/seed makers work with small numbers of plants making crosses (hybrids of hybrids = polyhybrids)...or they might just be experimenting with making seeds, preserving a line etc...any of these could be worthy pollinations to many growers.

The end product is always seeds, and these seeds need to be grown to produce more seed, to keep the plant alive and vibrant in millions of gardens.......

So is any 'Breeder' more ethical than another when the end product of his/her labour is cannabis that grows/yeilds as described, and brings a smile to the growers face?

Hmmm, I have seen instances where a hard worked, well bred cultivar has just been copied and re-named without any mention of the true lineage or the work a breeder did to get it to where it was at the time......so that would appear 'un-ethical', kinda like Bootlegging music.

There is currently no rule-book for breeding cannabis, but I am sure that the interest in the plant will continue to spur people on to grow it and produce seed crops, whether thru what you may consider ethical breeding practices or just 'pollen-chucks'......because it looks like the seeds will be needed, wherever they come from, as the cannabis industry develops and home-hobby-horticulturalists abound.

 

[Yard dog]

No the rest of the World... there is Yard Dog,Gey Brush and Johnny Chicago from
idiotic part of community.. idiots have a specific name..

the rest of a World are cool with me..

Look you god bothering ****, I've not called you an idiot or been rude to you until now, but you can't seem to let shit slide, you've decided you are the high and mighty one who can dictate to others the virtues of what is right and ethical because you fucking say so!!
not fucking once have you bothered to give me any facts on the evils of fem seeds you have proclaimed, you just post that you have sent seeds out for free? who gives a fuck, I had a wank this morning shall I shout it from the window to passers by?
Well done for you on gifting seeds!! praise fucking be!! hallelujah...

 

[Water-]

LOL... you need to stop smoke crack and turn yourself to weed...


You right.. i wage war with free seeds... if only more
of this kind of martyrs walk around... everybody will have everything for free and no one will miss anything..

how egoistic is that...!?

Oxford dictionary:

martyr
NOUN

1A person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.


1.1 A person who displays or exaggerates their discomfort or distress in order to obtain sympathy.

‘she wanted to play the martyr’

 

[Gr33nSanta]

There's no hard and fast rules anymore. There may have been some back in the day, but there were still shenanigans.

I think what's changed the most these days is how easy it is for people to get "elite cuts" and other peoples seeds from all over the world. Tons of seed banks(from great to terrible) that take easy online payment. So it's easy for someone from the mid-west(or wherever) to get cuts and breeding stock from across the country. Then pop up and distribute seeds via easy social media marketing. We've never seen anything like this time before. All of those factors coming together has changed everything.

There's people who bought a pack of seeds. They then found a male in that and hit it to all kinds of things and added the traditional tag (i.e breath, shoes, cookies, etc...) and started selling them online. I can't say that you might not find something nice in them, but it's not the type of work I would do. Selling F2's of a current F1 variety is par for the course today as well.

It's no different than the rest of the world. Some people are standup and operate with honesty/integrity. There are other's that don't. It's not like we're all in some guild with common rules and consequences for breaking them. Seems to be a free for all out there. Even though I never intended for certain work to get out, I am happy to see people growing it when I see it in the crosses. It's a reminder of the work my friends and I did years ago.

I agree, we have it easy nowadays, nearly every plant in my garden has had an ''elite cut'' for parent, a few generations up at most.