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Blumat auto watering
- Thread starter sunnydog
- Start date
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- blumat drippers irrigation watering
Bwanabud
Active member
I just love posers with big tough guy mouths, they can't have an intelligent discussion without name calling...they resort to insults and destroying peoples reputations, instead of providing facts to help other members. We all know that loud mouth bully, it has worked for him in the rest of his shallow life...so he takes the same bag of tricks with him everywhere he goes. 
Let's stick to some FACTS, and see if we can enlighten the intelligent thinkers among you...it's really just BASIC MATH for those of you that made it through grade school.
I actually SPOKE to Blumat on multiple occasions, when DESIGNING my system...as opposed to jury rigging a system with some miscellaneous parts from Amazon, attempting a DIY project then refusing to admit it limitations.
Fact...When I spoke to Technician Steve at Blumat, he informed me that my 55 gallon reservoir would last 4 1/2-5 days before needing refilled...it actually lasts about 4-4 1/2 days.
But let's use the 5 day rez capacity number as a base reference:
*55 gallons divided by 5 days = 10.5 gallons a day
*10.5 gallons x 128(oz) = 1344 fluid ounces a day(24 hrs)
*1344 oz divided by 24(hrs) = 56 fluid oz (per hr)
*56 oz divided by 3 oz(accumulator capacity) = 18.6 cycles per hour
*60 minutes divided by 18.6 = 3.2 minutes
That's right: Every 3.2 minutes the pump will cycle
Now since I'm full of shit, lets use member skyviews figures:
*1 plant uses 1/4 gallon per day
*50 plants x 1/4 gallon = 12.5 gallons per day
*12.5 gallons x 128 = 1600 fluid ounces per day(24 hrs)
*1600 divided by 24(hrs) = 66.6 fluid oz (per hour)
*66 oz divided by 3 oz(accumulator capacity) = 22 cycles per hour
*60 minutes divided by 22 = 2.7 minutes
That's right: Every 2.7 minutes the pump will cycle
I have never stated the system won't "work", I stated it's not efficient, effective...and the pump will cycle constantly. If you have a covert system, or quiet operation is important to you...then you need to address the problem. I have provided the facts(manufacturers specs on pump & accumulator), I have stated the problems with operation of my system...and I repeat the a medium size grow over 40 plants will start to have capacity issues.
Nastynate will be trying a 100 plant grow, his observations should interest the non-believers...skyview's own figures show to cycle faster than my original system, which I changed and improved substantially.
Remember 2 important facts:
1)Increasing pump size does NOT increase system fluid capacity, it only cycles the pump's run time shorter.
2)The specification 2-4oz fluid capacity of the accumulator is not fully depleted before the pump cycles gain, meaning the pressure drop fires the pump before the FULL capacity could be used...otherwise an air situation could occur, obviously interrupting the Blumat's water flow drippers....so the pump will cycle MORE than the above examples.
All of the name calling and insults don't change the facts, the science, or the math.
Let's stick to some FACTS, and see if we can enlighten the intelligent thinkers among you...it's really just BASIC MATH for those of you that made it through grade school.
I actually SPOKE to Blumat on multiple occasions, when DESIGNING my system...as opposed to jury rigging a system with some miscellaneous parts from Amazon, attempting a DIY project then refusing to admit it limitations.
Fact...When I spoke to Technician Steve at Blumat, he informed me that my 55 gallon reservoir would last 4 1/2-5 days before needing refilled...it actually lasts about 4-4 1/2 days.
But let's use the 5 day rez capacity number as a base reference:
*55 gallons divided by 5 days = 10.5 gallons a day
*10.5 gallons x 128(oz) = 1344 fluid ounces a day(24 hrs)
*1344 oz divided by 24(hrs) = 56 fluid oz (per hr)
*56 oz divided by 3 oz(accumulator capacity) = 18.6 cycles per hour
*60 minutes divided by 18.6 = 3.2 minutes
That's right: Every 3.2 minutes the pump will cycle
Now since I'm full of shit, lets use member skyviews figures:
*1 plant uses 1/4 gallon per day
*50 plants x 1/4 gallon = 12.5 gallons per day
*12.5 gallons x 128 = 1600 fluid ounces per day(24 hrs)
*1600 divided by 24(hrs) = 66.6 fluid oz (per hour)
*66 oz divided by 3 oz(accumulator capacity) = 22 cycles per hour
*60 minutes divided by 22 = 2.7 minutes
That's right: Every 2.7 minutes the pump will cycle
I have never stated the system won't "work", I stated it's not efficient, effective...and the pump will cycle constantly. If you have a covert system, or quiet operation is important to you...then you need to address the problem. I have provided the facts(manufacturers specs on pump & accumulator), I have stated the problems with operation of my system...and I repeat the a medium size grow over 40 plants will start to have capacity issues.
Nastynate will be trying a 100 plant grow, his observations should interest the non-believers...skyview's own figures show to cycle faster than my original system, which I changed and improved substantially.
Remember 2 important facts:
1)Increasing pump size does NOT increase system fluid capacity, it only cycles the pump's run time shorter.
2)The specification 2-4oz fluid capacity of the accumulator is not fully depleted before the pump cycles gain, meaning the pressure drop fires the pump before the FULL capacity could be used...otherwise an air situation could occur, obviously interrupting the Blumat's water flow drippers....so the pump will cycle MORE than the above examples.
All of the name calling and insults don't change the facts, the science, or the math.
skyview
Member
Here are some quick calculations:My point exactly.My >4' indoor plants just happen to go through ~1/4gal/plant daily. The claim that a 26oz accumulator and small demand pump can't handle a large blumat system is just ridiculous.
if you have 100 plants using 1/4 gallon per 24 hours, that's 25 gallons used per day. 4 ounces in the accumulator tank is 0.03 gallons
1/4 gallon = 32 ounces so 4 ounces = 0.03 gallons
Dividing the 25 gallons used per day by this 0.03 number means the accumulator would cycle 833 times per day. There are 1440 minutes per day so that means it would cycle once every 1.73 minutes.
If the pump is doing 1.6 gpm, that 205 ounces per minute which would fill the accumulator in about 3.41 seconds. So with 100 plants, the pump would be on for 3.41 seconds and off for 1.73 minutes or 104 seconds.
With the Shurflo recommendation that the pump is off 1/3 of the time, even with 500 plants, it would be much less than this - you could almost run 1000 plants.
Of course these numbers aren't taking into account friction loss or the plants using more water when the lights are on, less when off; but still, 500 plants is well within this range.
Using a larger pressure tank though would keep the pump from coming on so often and make it last much longer,
Bwanabud
Active member
Respected member skyview, that was all my point ever was...no pump should be cycling every 1.73 minutes for proper operation. It's no different than a car with highway or city driving, the worst thing you can do to a car/motor is start/turn off/start/turn off.
If you add the Blumat flush stakes to your system, to check run-off/add thick nutrients/flush media...the pump will run continuously.
It's not efficient, effective, or quiet for sound concerned growers....it's all about performance.
Note: I wonder why Blumat DOES sell & stock a much larger accumulator ???, must be for all those 10,000 plant operations
If you add the Blumat flush stakes to your system, to check run-off/add thick nutrients/flush media...the pump will run continuously.
It's not efficient, effective, or quiet for sound concerned growers....it's all about performance.
Note: I wonder why Blumat DOES sell & stock a much larger accumulator ???, must be for all those 10,000 plant operations
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skyview
Member
Those specs are straight from Shurflo, what they recommend for their pump and accumulator tank. They say there isn't a problem with how many times the pump cycles on and off as long as it's not on for more than half the time it's off. These pumps were designed for RV's and boats where people are frequently turning water on and off.
It's definitely not meant to run continuously though and will burn out if it's on for too long.
When the above ratio is maintained, they say it's fine.
But as you say, there could be many other considerations like noise (though the pump is very quiet), using it to flush, very hot environments, when plants go through big growth spurts...
Right now, I'm using this pump and accumulator tank with 20 plants in 5 to 15 gallon containers. The pump comes on for about 4-5 seconds every 45 minutes.
It's definitely not meant to run continuously though and will burn out if it's on for too long.
When the above ratio is maintained, they say it's fine.
But as you say, there could be many other considerations like noise (though the pump is very quiet), using it to flush, very hot environments, when plants go through big growth spurts...
Right now, I'm using this pump and accumulator tank with 20 plants in 5 to 15 gallon containers. The pump comes on for about 4-5 seconds every 45 minutes.
Bwanabud
Active member
That's perfect, the 2/1 ratio concerning off/on time is a general guideline, that guideline has limitations on effective use...and a you say they were designed for RV/boat use which is a small capacity system in design; dishwashing, bar water, ice maker..etc.
skyview
Member
Using a larger pressure tank will extend the life of the pump and keep things more quiet. It's a trade off though with the cost of the big tank vs. the cost of replacing the pump sooner.
You can also increase the capacity of the accumulator tank by putting more air into it with a bicycle pump. Because of shipping regulations, they aren't supposed to ship with more than 15 psi pressure in them but the recommended psi for maximum capacity is about 38 psi.
You can also increase the capacity of the accumulator tank by putting more air into it with a bicycle pump. Because of shipping regulations, they aren't supposed to ship with more than 15 psi pressure in them but the recommended psi for maximum capacity is about 38 psi.
Bwanabud
Active member
Just out of curiosity... Do you get the feeling that your pump is in any imminent danger of overheat or failure, or do you get the impression that you could run a MUCH larger garden off the same setup? Even if I open the purge line on my 8mm supply loop, the pump still only runs for ~3 seconds in every 15. I've let it cycle like this through a full 25gal barrel, and the pump was a little warm, that's it.
skyview
Member
I know several people using this system with 300-400 plants. One person tried to stretch it to over 900 though and burned out the pump. SV has a new system with higher flow pump and 4 gallon pressure tank that adds $50 to the cost but I think is much better if over 400-500 carrots.
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nastynate420
Member
Is anybody using the dosatrons? btw my pump/ accumulator combo seems to be running very well with 39 plants with two blumats per 10 gallon promix pot. My plants are sucking up roughly .5 gallon per plant per day. So I'm going through 20 gallons a day without a problem it seems. I'm using a 3 gph pump too. I may upgrade to a larger tank so that my pump will last longer. Does anybody have a recommendation of a good one they can link me to?
skyview
Member
For a bigger pressure tank that will work with your system:
https://www.sustainablevillage.com/...t/product&product_id=399&search=pressure+tank
To use a Dosatron, I think you would need to have more plants before one would work, at least 50 using .5 gallon per day.
https://www.sustainablevillage.com/...t/product&product_id=399&search=pressure+tank
To use a Dosatron, I think you would need to have more plants before one would work, at least 50 using .5 gallon per day.
nastynate420
Member
Thanks sky view. I just looked a little more into the dosatrons and the one that I was looking at earlier (http://www.dosatronusa.com/d25re09/) would not be a good fit for my sized medical grow. When I transition into growing recreationally this may be a more feasible option for growing at least 200 plants that suck down .5 gallons a day because it requires a flow rate of 0.05 to 11 GPM. 200 plants sucking down .5 gallons a day would suck down .07 GPM on average throughout the day. Again, during the day they're going to suck down more and during the night they won't suck down as much. I'd have to look a little more into how much my plants suck down during the night vs during the day to see if that will actually work. I think a better option for us smaller growers would be http://www.dosatronusa.com/d07re125/. It only requires a flow rate of 0.02 to 3 GPM to function and has accurate nutrient ratios. 50 plants sucking .5 GPD would equal a flow rate of .017 on average which still isn't what dosatron calls for. I may call tomorrow to see if it will work properly if it doesn't have that ideal flow rate and post back here with what I learn. Of course, if anybody has the answers to my questions please chime in or is running dosatrons successfully please chime in.
I am trying to set up 6 X 27L pots in two rows of 3 can someone help me please? I don't know what I need, there's blumat classic, blumat tropf, jumbo sized ones, etc and I have no idea which ones I need please help. I would really love it if someone could tell me which products to buy, how many and give me some idea about ideal rez size, PS: arent some of them made of clay and others not? If so Which ones are best then thank you.
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nastynate420
Member
You want the tropf blumat. You'd probably want two tropf blumats for each 27L pot. So you'd want a total of 12 blumats. I'd recommend the patio set of twelve you can get on amazon that can be found here http://www.amazon.com/Tropf-Blumat-...ie=UTF8&qid=1464638945&sr=8-1&keywords=blumat. It may be cheaper on eBay. I'd then recommend getting the blumat shut off valve that you can get on eBay i believe or sustainable village http://www.amazon.com/Tropf-Blumat-...ie=UTF8&qid=1464638945&sr=8-1&keywords=blumat. It allows you to let the air bubbles out of the line which can cause problems if you don't let them out. I'd also recommend a quick disconnect from SV also so that you can clean out your reservoir easily https://www.sustainablevillage.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_69&product_id=274. I'd also recommend buying an extra 30 feet of the 3 mm line so that you have more room to move your pots around. That can be found at sustainablevillage.com or eBay as well. I'd also recommend using your medium with the perlite removed because that tends to mess with the blumats being able to sense the soil level moisture correctly.
Thank you, would it be better to buy the accessories and or kits from here https://blumatsystems.com/category/3/Tropf-Blumat-Kits
Would the Large gravity garden kit be more suitable? Are they the same sensors as the pattio kit you showed me?
Thanks again for your help.
Would the Large gravity garden kit be more suitable? Are they the same sensors as the pattio kit you showed me?
Thanks again for your help.
nastynate420
Member
Yeah, that site should work. It looks like that site is also ran by the same people that run sustainable village but I'm used to using the actual sustainable village.com site and like the layout better there, but if you like that one better go for it. I didn't see what large kit you're talking about, but if you give me the link I could let you know. Otherwise, if you follow the links I sent you in my last post it's everything that you would need for your 6 plant setup 2 carrots a plant.
